1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 165 Replies Latest reply on May 14, 2011 1:06 AM by c.pfaffenbichler Go to original post
      • 120. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

        Really, really, there must some shady deal between Adobe, Microsoft and Apple

        Really?  Rather than understand the limitations of your current OS and it's user community, or do anything to improve the situation, you'd rather cry about a ridiculous non-existent conspiracy?


        Dear Chris,


        You noted 2 parts of my message, but let slip away the important part: If Google backs up, will Adobe port it to Linux ???


        Since Linux shares the same POSIX nature from MacOSX, it would not be that hard to port it to Linux.

        POSIX has little to do with it.  Maybe a few memory management calls, and some threading, but that's it.

        The rest is the Cocoa API, Carbon API, etc.


        Ok, So what about BricsCAD, http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/ ,  which has a native Linux version ???  They ported their software to Linux, and, AFAIK, there's people paying for it.


        Again, standardizing the APIs on Linux would lower the cost of making a port -- but the key ingredient that is missing is Linux users willing to pay for professional software.




        And I'm not mad at you, so, don't bash me. I am also an employed person, and, I have to dance to my boss' music, I understand why you recite this mantra "There's no people willing to pay for Photoshop in Linux", because is what your boss told you to say/write here in the forums. But think about piracy. How many people gets Photoshop for free in the windows world ???

        It's a fallacy, at the best...


        Best regards.

        • 121. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
          Level 7

          You noted 2 parts of my message, but let slip away the important part: If Google backs up, will Adobe port it to Linux ???

          And you ignore the important parts of my postings:  PAYING CUSTOMERS are the important thing missing on Linux.



          you recite this mantra "There's no people willing to pay for Photoshop in Linux", because is what your boss told you to say/write here in the forums

          No, I repeat it because it's a verifiable truth that you seem to have some difficulty understanding.



          If you want commercial apps on your platform, first you have to have customers on that platform willing to pay for commercial software.

          Linux doesn't have those paying customers.  It really is that simple.

          • 122. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
            bushmanza Level 1

            Hey Chris,


            Got something for your suggestions box.


            According to you the code base is easy to port to Linux. Based on other areas in the industry this is becoming a more common trend. All those names I mentioned earlier who are writing for all 3 major OS groups. Write for Ubuntu, include the fonts you want, and make the download avaliable online. No need to waste money on useless DVD`s. You can create key protected repositries that people can pay to connect to.


            That way its easy to control the lisences and makes it super easy and painless for us to pay for the latest version of Adobe. If its not hard to port do it. I promise to purchase it .


            PS. Is Dreamweaver just as easy to port? Just wondering about its long term future in the industry.

            PPS: What happened to the Google iniative? http://apcmag.com/google_behind_photoshops_new_linux_compatibility.htm ??

            • 123. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

              As good as GIMP is, it isn't anywhere near good enough for professional work. Add to this that the GIMP workflow is totally different to that of Photoshop which makes it unfamiliar territory for PS users. Adobe can't continue to ignore the Linux market - I know you dispute the market for commercial software on Linux, Mr Cox!


              I think I have a decent suggestion for Adobe though, one that might prove more useful than surveys - why not commit some staff to improving WINE compatibility. Why?

              • It's currently very difficult to install PS under WINE
              • It would give Adobe an actual insight into how many users are using PS in a Linux environment
              • It would show the Linux community (and potential customers) that Adobe has an interest in developing software they want - Adobe do come off as pretty aloof in this conversation!
              • A lot less is at stake if the experiment fails - the cost of contributing to WINE compatibility has got to be much much less than porting an entire piece of software.
              • 124. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                If you added up everybody's two cents, you might have enough to fund the port. But let me add mine.


                I'm looking at what I'll buy for my next system. My current on is a MacBook Pro. Yes, I'm planning a switch from Mac to Ubuntu because I can save $1,000 on my hardware purchase. I've been making a list of the software I currently use and how I'd replace it in Linux, and the only thing that's stumped me is PhotoShop. Will that hold me up? Not at all, because I've got plenty of Mac hardware lying around I can use in a pinch to run PhotoShop.


                What may interest you is WHY I'm switching. It's not just because Apple has continued to demonstrate their attitude that closed is better than open, but that they want a piece of everything that runs on that closed system. It's also that Ubuntu is mature enough now to support my needs.


                I think the numbers are out there looking for a solution. I'm not even clamoring for Adobe to provide it. But somebody will and I'm one of the ones willing to pay for it.    

                • 125. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                  Given all that has happened between Apple and Adobe in recent times, I find it more than a little amusing that there can still be people subscribing to the view there is a secret agreement in place to keep Adobe creative applications away from Linux. I'm sure there are people at Adobe who would love to stick it to Steve Jobs and Apple by tempting creative professionals with a Linux port of mission-critical software. But as Chris has said repeatedly, this is business, Adobe has shareholders, and they have an obligation to protect shareholder value.


                  Does anyone remember all the fuss there was when Ubuntu made proprietary drivers available to its users to improve hardware performance and the overall out-of-the-box experience? There are still people to this day pissing on Ubuntu because of that decision. I would also point out that whenever anyone involved with desktop Linux makes noises about supporting commercial software from within a distribution, there is such outcry within the community that the plan never goes anywhere. If you can't even get enough people to agree to the basic premise of making commercial software applications accessible from within say Ubuntu, then I think that strongly suggests Adobe's market research is spot on. There is no viable business reason for Adobe to invest the millions of dollars it would take to bring their flagship product to Linux.


                  Let's assume for a moment that Adobe is leaving millions of dollars in revenue on the table by ignoring Linux. To move ahead with the project, you'd still need to be pretty damn confident you could find competent engineers capable of writing a top quality port of the application for Linux. Given Adobe's appalling track record with, for example, Flash ports, I wouldn't want to be making that bet on the company with millions of dollars at stake. Once reviews start pouring in explaining that Photoshop on Linux lacks certain features found in identically priced Windows and Mac versions, that the Linux version runs like a snail even on a machine with a ton of RAM and the latest and greatest Intel CPUs, and that it crashes every 20 minutes, well I think it's safe to assume Adobe would be writing a huge chunk of their investment off as a substantial loss in no time.


                  You'd also have a large part of the less than 1% of people using Linux on the desktop telling anyone who would listen that Adobe is evil, Photoshop is a complete rip off at $600-$900, and that GIMP is free and so much better anyway. Viral marketing would be a complete non-starter. Adobe would be up against hurricane-like winds in trying to market their product on Linux.


                  In summary: I believe Adobe trying to bring Photoshop to Linux would be a match made in hell for everyone concerned.

                  • 126. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                    RuyBlanco Level 1

                    I beg to differ here. Linux started as a community project, but it's growing big, and, it's spreading out of the community camp.

                    Android, ChromeOS and other initiatives show the little kid is no more under his parents hold.

                    Linux is gaining the world, and is becoming a commercial option.

                    Sure there are more orthodox people, but  Linux is approaching a critical mass, and thanks to Apple and MacOSX, it will become a cheaper option to iMacs and the MacOSX. An operating system, solid as MacOSX(Macs because the BSD foundation, Linux because of the legacy Unix architecture), it's not why not port to Linux, but when to port it to Linux.


                    Best regards,

                    • 127. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                      I've been reading all this carefully (I hope)...


                      And I must say, sincerely: you only care about "market", neither customers, nor serving society with a product... OK, that is capitalism, you might say.


                      But think: developing Photoshop for Linux may cost a few thousand dollars and if the 15 people in this list pay each for 1 copy, you are done!!! The rest of the money you love so much will continue to come from the window$ users!!   In my maths you are NOT loosing money.

                      And this is only the worst (your!) scenario!



                      But I agree with the other people here: there are surely more than 15 users in the world willing to pay for a good new Photoshop for Linux, because they are 24 / 7 working under Linux BY CHOICE, so they want to stay there.


                      And did you realise that many people may be already using "your" product inside some emulator, under Linux? So what!!??



                      And among the millions of window$ users, how many are using Photoshop?

                      Among them, how many are using pirate copies of your software!!?? You will never ever see a dime from those users, you know!


                      And Linux users here are asking for a legal copy and Adobe is not going to provide it ever???



                      Also important: in some years, software like The Gimp, Blender, etc., etc., will be much better than now, since cooperative work in the open source community allows exponential growth. So maybe we won't need Photoshop any more.  You rather hurry up.




                      PS: and if you do port Photoshop for Linux, please, make it work better than flash-player for Linux!

                      • 128. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                        Zalao Level 1

                        > Again, standardizing the APIs on Linux would lower the cost  of making a port -- but the key ingredient that is missing is Linux  users willing to pay for professional software.


                        My obvious question, then: if it is cheap to do it, and you do it, and you manage to sell 2 handful of copies and that covers your investment, is it not worth to have "new" happy customers in another platform???????



                        I am beginig to think RuyBlanco is right, there's a deal with M$ that forbids you to help Linux to grow by selling their users another blockbuster software. The rest is not so important...

                        What a pity.


                        • 129. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                          c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                          Well, this thread has gone pretty long and late.comers cannot be expected to read each and every post, I guess.

                          But some of your statements seem to border on the risible.


                          »a few thousand dollars«?

                          You base that estimate on what? Other than ignoring Mr.Cox admittedly rather vague hints. 

                          And it would not be a one-time-investment but mean running costs.

                          • 130. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                            Level 7

                            And I must say, sincerely: you only care about "market", neither customers, nor serving society with a product... OK, that is capitalism, you might say.

                            Customers are the market.

                            If there are no customers willing to pay for the software, then there is no market.


                            developing Photoshop for Linux may cost a few thousand dollars

                            Your cost estimate is off by a few orders of magnitude.




                            (why does it sound like this guy is paraphrasing the Amiga post?)

                            • 131. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                              AlexBoutros Level 1

                              Chris Cox has got to be one stressed out dude dealing with these posters. I primarily use Linux, but I have a partition with Windows for the Adobe Suite. It's not difficult.


                              While I would love to see Photoshop or Premiere come to Linux, I understand why they won't. At least not for quite some time.


                              Be strong Chris.

                              • 132. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                Zalao Level 1


                                > Well, this thread has gone pretty long and late.comers cannot be expected to read each and every post, I guess.

                                But some of your statements seem to border on the risible




                                Maybe you think this was a nice way to say we are ignorant or stupid... But it is not.

                                I read all the posts BUT the answers are not convincing. I say that since the company is already earning a lot of money because of this package (Photoshop) in one or two platforms (MS Windows and perhaps MacOS-X), it is not a bad marketing idea to make it for the other largely used platform (Linux) even if the profits margin is small (let's say you sell just a couple thousands licences. You get the users of this other system and keep surfing the “I'm the preferred software for picture management” wave



                                »a few thousand dollars«?

                                > You base that estimate on what? Other than ignoring Mr.Cox admittedly rather vague hints.

                                And it would not be a one-time-investment but mean running costs.



                                Sorry. I thought that since there is a software that can be ported, it is cheaper than building it from the scratch...

                                And I also understand that since you are used to proprietary software and never saw the collaborative work like the one of the open-source community closer, you don't see the possibility of getting some people to help you even for free.


                                So, good bye. And please do not send me direct e-mails (off this discussion forum) to insult me or call me info-ignorant. I'll give up the idea of using Photoshop under Linux and invest more time studying Gimp, Inkscape and Blender, and keep using them in the platforms I use. I have been using them more and more and like them!


                                • 133. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                  c.pfaffenbichler Level 9
                                  And please do not send me direct e-mails (off this discussion forum) to insult me or call me info-ignorant.

                                  Where did that come from?

                                  Who has done that?


                                  Maybe you think this was a nice way to say we are ignorant or stupid... But it is not.

                                  I read all the posts BUT the answers are not convincing.

                                  Mr. Cox pretty clearly stated that the port would incur substantial and maintained costs, a point you seemed to willfully ignore.

                                  As for the perceived insinuation of ignorance: In all probability you and the other Linux-users here have significantly more insight into your OS than I have in mine – and I am aware of that.


                                  But what I perceive as an unwillingness to process the arguments of a truly knowledgable contributor like Mr.Cox seems peculiar to me.

                                  Even though his statement »If you want commercial apps on your platform, first you have to have customers on that platform willing to pay for commercial software. Linux doesn't have those paying customers.« seems – in the face of declarations by several posters here – poorly worded …


                                  Have you also checked out this thread?


                                  • 134. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                    As per your words:

                                    Linux users may not be willing to pay for commercial applications but what about those who are paying a huge amount to Adobe as well as Microsoft and some other (so called) security software (Antivirus) companies which who develop viruses and sell antivirus software to counter the viruses.


                                    Most of the Commercial software buyers on Microsoft platform are customers of Microsoft but they are also customers of Adobe. I know more then 90% of adobe customers in my knowledge want a switch over to LINUX but their first question is:


                                    Will I be able to run PHOTOSHOP and other creative suite applications on LINUX?


                                    What does this mean?


                                    Adobe thinks that they have already spent money so why bother about them. But please don't forget "After all they are your customers". They also have right to choose the best OS available in the Market today. I am sure adobe can't say that LINUX is not in the race of "BEST OS's".


                                    I am not sure but in my opinion, Adobe might be earning more from upgrades or  sales of new software to "Existing Customers"  or from those customers who are using Pirated copies but are willing to buy genuine software. If one customer is using pirated copies of adobe application then there is 100% possibility that he will also be using pirated copy of OS. Now if he wants genuine software say (one OS and Adobe creative suite or any software of his/her choice then customer can atleast save money for OS by using Genuine LINUX at No Cost.


                                    Please rethink about this.


                                    As far as I know: Linux may provide better Piracy control because most of the software installation is done by Repositories. so you may control them at your own will by creating your own software repositories.


                                    My another point of view is that: Porting of Adobe Applications on LINUX will help both Adobe and Popular LINUX Distros.  The only company in LOSS would be Microsoft.  This may lead to another possibilites that Microsoft may be putting pressure on Adobe to keep itself away from LINUX.


                                    My Question:

                                    Adobe may be one of the biggest software company developing software for a normal user (after MS-OFFICE) then why this big company is waiting for Linux adaption by more users or commercial buyers?

                                    • 135. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                      So Linux doesn't have paying customers.  While there seems to be a lot of debate here about that statement, I'll just take that as a given.  I don't want Chris to have to reiterate himself on that yet again .  But here's an idea:


                                      Companies are starting to ship flavors of Linux (namely Ubuntu) installed on there computers (Dell being the primary example).  So, do with Photoshop what MS is doing with Office.  Load a trial version of PS into Ubuntu in an effort to get the user "hooked".


                                      I'm sure somebody has already thought of this, I dunno.  But it would seem to me that this would generate some sort of revenue.  And, BTW, I don't want Adobe to go bankrupt (worst case) just because it spent a lot of money porting PS to Linux and then didn't generate any revenue...even PS on Windows is better than no PS at all...

                                      • 136. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                        Whats I'm gathering from this is your saying many of the customers that want it on linux already purchase it on windows so there is no reason or means of profit.  Must I remind you, many companies fail for not listening to their customers.  If all of sudden another software solution comes to exist, or the holes in gimp is filled because the lack of a solution on linux you could see Adobe fail.


                                        In any business text book, they teach you that the number one big businsses fail is because of complacency.  They get too big & don't listen to change their direction.  For example, look at the Walkman.  They began to fail because they did not inovate into the mp3s music, Apple filled that void.  They came out with the Ipod, soon Walkman tried to step back up and come out with an mp3 playing device.  It never caught on because Apple got their first.  Another example? Perhaps DEC is a great one, a premier computer manufacturer in the 1970s and 80s.  They developed the most reliable and fastest computers.  Though Ken Olsen of DEC could be quoted as saying, "I can see of no reason why anybody would ever want a computer on their desk"


                                        Eventually they got into the market because thats where it was.  Their computer had more memory, & were faster in comparison to the Intel 8086 based computer.  They were stuck in their own idealogy and didn't go where the market was going where it already became dominated by others.  In the 90s they were going downhill, until a move in 1996 to minor profitability to target the markets they were avoiding and eventually sold out to Compaq.


                                        Lets say you lose customers to a new competito offering similar commercial viable tools like Photoshop, or even the inferior product gimp because for the mere fact its on Linux and your not.  You just lost customers due to failing to monitor your current customers wants.


                                        Don't avoid going to the market just because most of the existing customers already purchase Adobe on windows, make the move because you want to satisfy your customers and keep them.    Calculate the value of a lost customer, I'm sure that will satisfy the development costs of making a Linux version.  Adding new customers is an added bonus, and the diehard Linux people that will not use Windows period yet have a need for Photoshop beyond gimp will buy it.


                                        As for printer drivers, I could of sworn Linux uses an open standards printing system thats shared across BSD & Linux.  CUPS = Common Unix Printing System, and honestly, its very easy to make drivers for I have no idea what is keeping companies behind on that.  As for linux being a combination of OSes, its not 5 windowing systems, there is 2 dominant windowing systems.  KDE & Gtk, you pick one & go with it.  As long as the person installs the libs for either of them they can run gtk or KDE apps in each just as well.  Or you can move to pure X11 coding, that might be a hassle however.  As for multiples OSes sharing the same kernel, thats partially true, however the biggest thing you have to take into account they all use X11, some of the install locations are different in your installer you only have to account for install locations in different OSes.  Here's one possibility on a way to do it.  You create your main binary, that is not linked into any libs, & you create an script similar to autoconf that finds where all your libraries are & you ld it on the machine itself.  And a small configure file that defines any special system locations of different required system configuration files.   I think you should aim development towards one distro, that will keep things simple as well, do the market research pick the distro that is uses predominantly by desktop users not server users.  I'm positive thats somewhere between Ubuntu and Mint.  Which Mint is based ontop of Ubuntu so far that fact aim at Ubuntu, I wouldn't bother with debian or redhat considering those 2 distributions are aimed at server deployment.


                                        Again.. There is money in this because your customers already want it.  Don't be like Lotus 1-2-3, they failed to move to the GUI environment which is what their customers wanted... Microsoft filled that void with Office, does anyone use 1-2-3 anymore?

                                        • 137. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                          As an Adobe customer, I hereby declare my intention to purchase a Linux (as opposed to OSX) Creative Suite license if such a product should become available in the future.

                                          • 138. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                            Hey Folks,


                                            After reading through all of these posts, I have seen some true insight into the nature of the Linux community as well as the nature of the Photoshop team...and I have to say, both sides make very valid and intriguing points.


                                            Linux Users say: The main reason most people don't switch to Linux full time is for the applications such as photoshop. The market is there, it is just that those who desperately need to use photoshop are forced to use windows or mac, but would much rather be using linux and would gladly switch.


                                            Photoshop team says: We understand this, but the numbers are not there. There are no set standards to linux desktop distributions, and to create a port on a fragmented series of operating systems would be costly, and until the numbers are there to back up such a decision...it cannot be made.


                                            I have a compromise in which the linux users can get photoshop and the photoshop team can test the waters of linux based sales with very little expenditures.


                                            It is fairly well known that photoshop up to CS4 (and with some rare luck CS5) can work in linux through the use of WINE. I know many people who have gotten this to work, though it has always been a bit of a struggle. Here is my solution:


                                            Why doesn't the photoshop team work with the WINE team to create a wine addon or a library that creates a better/seamless integration with photoshop (or any of the adobe products)? You can 'basically' get photoshop to work in linux with WINE already, and, with a little help from the insight of the photoshop developers, the WINE project could possibly add to their WINE packages with a way to get next to 100% photoshop integration without photoshop having to go to the hassle of creating a full port. That is until the time comes that the numbers show linux to be a viable platform.


                                            The possibilities of Adobe and WINE working together are endless. The collaboration of both teams working together could range from a simple library that patches some of the initial and lingering errors that happen from trying to run photoshop in WINE, all the way to an 'adobe made' linux package that calls the use of wine to install and run photoshop, but with a nice and pretty adobe frontend.


                                            Just my two cents, feel free to tell me in detail why my ideas are wrong and crazy. I am expecting such input from both parties.

                                            • 139. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                              bushmanza Level 1

                                              Hi Flyboi22,


                                              Just to let you know I successfully am running Photoshop CS8 on

                                              Ubuntu+wine. It required no tweaking or extras. Just worked for me.

                                              • 140. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                bushmanza Level 1



                                                Sorry, typo there. It was meant to be "Photoshop CS5".

                                                • 141. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                  dedhandi Level 1

                                                  @flyboi22 - exactly my point a couple of posts back

                                                  • 142. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                    dedhandi Level 1

                                                    Wow, would love to know how you did it! The installer won't even run for me. I've tried using WINE Tricks and PlayOnLinux (which itself using WINE Tricks) but with no luck!

                                                    • 143. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                      bushmanza Level 1

                                                      I run the latest version of ubuntu. Installed wine, ran setup.

                                                      Everything worked. No tricks or anything.

                                                      • 144. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                                        You say you do not have any Linux customers, yes that is correct you don't have any Linux customers. You can't have any Linux customers because you don't have a product to sell to Linux users!! I have nothing to sell so I do not have any customers, simple. If Adobe made a product available to Linux users, even if it was only Photoshop Elements to begin with, then they would have Linux customers or potential customers but they can't have any Linux customers until they produce a Linux product.


                                                        To imply that because Linux is a free OS the people who use it are not willing to buy software is not only insulting to Linux users but also displays a lack of understanding on your part, you tend to imply in some of your posts that people who use Linux only use it because it is a free OS in which case those people would not be willing to buy software. Wrong!! Most people who use Linux bought a PC which would have come with an OS pre-installed, normally Windows but in the case of a lot of net-books, Linux. Those people already had an OS, it came with their PC yet they choose to run Linux instead because they prefer it to Windows.


                                                        I built my PC and I purchased an OEM version of Windows. I would prefer to use Linux, not because I am not willing to buy software or an OS but because there is no commercial software market for Linux. Its a catch 22 situation really.


                                                        Yes it is correct to say that there are Linux users who are not willing to buy software but the same has to be said about Mac OSX and Windows users. That is why there are so many Mac and Windows users running pirated software downloaded via torrents, regardless if it is Adobe, Microsoft or any other licensed software.

                                                        • 145. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                          RuyBlanco Level 1

                                                          Couldn't agree more, Adobe hides behind the Chicken/Egg paradox. It's a very weak excuse.


                                                          BTW, seems like IT'S COMING: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/adobe-photoshop-for-linux-definitely-on-the-radar/


                                                          Best regards...

                                                          • 146. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                            Level 7

                                                            Please read what has already been written in this topic.


                                                            We have surveyed existing and prospective customers.

                                                            We've even singled out Linux users in some surveys, and asked if they were willing to pay for commercial software.

                                                            Too few said yes, too many said no.


                                                            We've asked about people willing to switch OSes, and the numbers are too small.

                                                            We've asked every way that makes sense, and even a few that don't.

                                                            But the answers are the same.



                                                            It's just basic business:

                                                            The port would be expensive.

                                                            There are very few Linux users willing to pay for a port.

                                                            Without customers willing to buy the port, making the port would lose money, and thus makes no sense.


                                                            Accusing Adobe of all sorts of bad things won't change the fact that not enough Linux users are willing to pay for commercial software.

                                                            If you want the situation to change, then change the Linux community.

                                                            Until that happens, the business case just isn't there.

                                                            • 147. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                              rjay60 Level 1

                                                              I have read this post from top to bottom so have read what has been written. I would be interested to know more about this survey in more detail. Surveys if done correctly tend to involve dedicated companies who carry them out and it tends to cost money, the sort of money I can't see Adobe spending if they are the penny pinching, profit orientated company you portray them to be, which I personally can't believe, I would assume Adobe would be the type of company to offer what their customers require.


                                                              If such a survey has been done and if it was done correctly then you would know why Linux users are so dead against buying software, if you don't then the survey does not carry any weight. No survey commissioned by a company the size of Adobe, if they were going to invest that sort of money would ask a simple one off question of would you or wouldn't you survey without asking why and what if?


                                                              Windows holds the largest share in the world market so it is always going to be worth while any company offering their software to the Windows platform. The rest of the market share (Probably around 15%) is shared between Mac and Linux with probably the greater share of that going to Mac. Now why is it that out of the minority share Mac users are more likely to pay for software then Linux users? Now it's not because Linux users are tight skin flints because as I said most of them bought a PC which came with an OS, they use Linux because they prefer it, not because it is free.


                                                              No doubt if you were to do a similar survey amongst Mac and Windows users you would more then likely get similar results, and that is why I say there are a lot of people running pirated software on the Mac and Windows platforms.


                                                              This actually sounds more like what Scott Kelby was talking about regarding Adobe not marketing image editing software for the ipad. personally I think it's just a case of the Linux platform being too small and releasing Photoshop on Linux would be a gamble Adobe are not prepared to take. Now Adobe are offering its software on a rental scheme means there would be no need for Linux users to buy Photoshop. maybe Adobe should do another survey to see if Linux users would be prepared to rent it

                                                              • 148. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                                                @Chris Cox:


                                                                Regarding Linux and studio work, I'm curious as to the current cost / benefit breakdown for studio implementations at places such as DD, WETA, MPC, etc. where it would seem that there is a company cost savings at stake for platform licenses and upgrades.


                                                                I'm interested in a ballpark estimation of Adobe's perception of viability for those clients. An economic market evaluation has obviously been done and is quite likely monitored, but I'm curious as to how the figures have shifted. Have they grown? Have they declined?


                                                                With respect,


                                                                • 149. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                  Level 7

                                                                  I'm not allowed to share numbers (even when I have them -- usually marketing has all the data).


                                                                  But the studios don't represent enough of a user base to make a port worthwhile (well, not without charging many times the current price).

                                                                  • 150. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?

                                                                    So it's not viable from a business point of view to have a native port of Photoshop to Linux, however, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to take Wine users into consideration whilst developing Photoshop (and other Adobe applications). I shouldn't think it'd be that much work, plus you could then advertise it as wine compatible. If Linux users were sure it'd run well under Wine, then they would be more likely to buy it without worrying about spending loads of money on software that they're not sure will work under Wine.


                                                                    Because Photoshop does mostly run under Wine (I'm not too sure how well currently, as my Debian machine is woefully underpowered and thus doesn't meet the minimum requirements), it shouldn't cost that much to ensure it runs properly under Wine should it? Surely the cost of ensuring it runs under Wine is far less than the income generated from the people buying Photoshop or other Adobe software with intent to run it under Wine?

                                                                    • 151. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                      Level 7

                                                                      it shouldn't cost that much to ensure it runs properly under Wine should it?

                                                                      Ensuring that an application runs well under Wine... means debugging Wine.

                                                                      And we're not allowed to directly work on or fix Wine.

                                                                      And we don't have time or resources to continuously test under Wine (otherwise it would be about the cost of supporting a new platform).


                                                                      But we do answer questions from CodeWeavers when they run into problems.

                                                                      • 152. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                        Joergen Geerds Level 1

                                                                        I still understand Chris's position in regards to the Linux port, the market just isn't there:



                                                                        Linux has about 1% market share, depending on where you get your data source... it dominates the server market, for good reasons, but the user space (i.e. office drones etc) hasn't adapted Linux... besides, the standard model of computing (monolithic desktop) is going away anyway... developing PS for Linux now is more like beating a dead horse.


                                                                        But, if the community really wants PS for Linux, why not write a well-formulated request (sans anecdotes) to John Nack and Chris Cox, and ask them for an honest estimate how much a Linux port (and what specific distro, including support) would cost... i.e. 10 coders/engineers/QC/testing staff cost $1M/year (I'm making up numbers)... process would take at least 12-18 months (way into the CS6 product cycle, maybe even CS7).

                                                                        So, overall port would cost $2-4M... now open a kickstarter project, collect that amount of money, forward it to adobe, and let them start on the port. done.


                                                                        On the other hand, I think in 2-3 years the desktop paradigm is gone, and we'll see a full-featured photoshop online in the cloud... all you need is a web browser and broadband... no linux port necessary anymore, and all the work/money above was wasted.

                                                                        • 153. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                          Keny Woo Level 1

                                                                          Dear Mr. Chris,


                                                                          In your previous replies, you were keeping talking about surveys to support your point that few Linux user would be likely to purchase a commercial software.


                                                                          Do you know anything about statistics? Do you know, in the perspective of serious statistics, anything based on a survey, unless it is a census, is nothing but nonsense? The fact is, no matter how well a survey is designed and done, there would be a HUGE potential of selection bias (we call it "volunteer bias" in statistics, google it!), which would eventually impair the interpretation of the true situation.


                                                                          The only way to achieve meaningful statistical results in the real world is to draw a random sample from the underlying population, which means you have to randomly pickup, let's say 50,000 people in the US based on their SSN or driver's license #, and force them to give you the answer. Are you able to do this?




                                                                          Kenny Woo

                                                                          • 154. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                            c.pfaffenbichler Level 9



                                                                            if I understand correctly Mr. Cox is a senior computer scientist at Adobe with many years of Photoshop-programming to his credit – so while your google-recommendations may provide interesting reading do you really want him to spend his time taking on Adobe’s marketing research methodology?


                                                                            Anyway, by your measure of »randomly pickup, let's say 1,000 people in the US, and force them to give you the answer.« how many real world polls or surveys can meet your requirements for valid data?

                                                                            And could the applied »force« not potentially slant the outcome yet again?


                                                                            So are you trying to point out the underlying issues of all polls or just Adobe’s?

                                                                            • 155. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?



                                                                              Thank you for discussing this openly and explaining Adobe's position. There a few points/questions I'd like to make:


                                                                              -First, why are you not allowed to improve WINE? And who do you mean by 'you' here? I'm happy to hear you are answering Codeweaver's questions, but of course if you'd send in useful patches, they would immediately be incorporated in WINE. Also, I don't see why you couldn't directly sponsor Codeweavers for work on specifically Photoshop.


                                                                              -Surely a percentage market share should mean _something_ to Adobe, and justify _some_ investment. Or are you saying Adobe is investing $0 on helping develop the linux market to evolve, potentially closer to where Adobe can go in and cash? What about strategic development of influence, or developing alternatives to windows/osx, to be able to put pressure on apple and microsoft when needed? It seems awfully dangerous to run a large company solely based on short-term considerations (but perhaps this is the way it goes with publically tradeh companies, and nobody really cares if the company still exists in 20 years).


                                                                              -I will believe there is no business case in the short term, but history is full of examples where only looking at the current situation brought down some company, because they didn't see what was coming in the longer run. As people have mentioned, there _will_ be a rather nasty competitor at some point, and by that point it may already be too late to save your company. The competitor quite likely IMO will come from the linux world, so having your products run on linux might be a good way to slow down such a competitor from developing. Would you really want to aid the development of some free equivalent of photoshop, that has the same quality of say, linux, mysql or blender? I would say that's a real strategic risk that high-level managers should be able to grasp, given the rise of linux, openoffice, firefox, mysql.. Or just tell them what linux did to solaris.


                                                                              -Here's a simple plan that would at least not cost anything. Have Codeweavers make a special PS build for linux. It won't be perfect, so be honest about this being an experiment. Sell licenses, and use all earnings to have Codeweavers improve the build. If nobody buys it, it won't cost you anything, and the more people buy it, the better it will become, without any huge investment from your side. I'm sure you'd sell at least a few thousand licenses, enough to jumpstart something like this. I'd honestly like to know why you think this wouldn't work.


                                                                              Many thanks in advance for your reply,

                                                                              Mark Dufour.

                                                                              • 156. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                If you are saying Adobe should give Codeweavers their Photoshop source code as the basis for making a special version of PS of that runs on CW's emulator(s), then that is unlikely to happen unless Adobe wants to diversity into something totally different and would buy Codeweavers, which of course wouldn't be a small investment.


                                                                                If you're saying Codeweavers would make a special build of their emulator that could host Photoshop binaries, then that has nothing to do with Adobe and you should be talking to CW.


                                                                                What multiple of Photoshop's current price would businesses or individuals be willing to pay just so they wouldn't have to deal with Windows on a high-end Intel or Apple platform yet run Photoshop, to pay for Adobe's expanded development and customer-service and marketing for the Linux side?  A few thousand licenses doesn't pay for too much.


                                                                                I see on the last line of the second-to-last paragraph in the first section of the Codeweavers wikipedia article it says that "Google has paid Codeweavers to improve support for Adobe Photoshop", so maybe Adobe doesn't have to do anything, and Google, will.



                                                                                • 157. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                                  Level 7

                                                                                  First, why are you not allowed to improve WINE?

                                                                                  I cannot directly contribute code to them because of Adobe policy.

                                                                                  • 158. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                                    flyboi22 Level 1

                                                                                    Does anyone else see the irony that Google is willing to see the potential in Linux enough that it is willing to shell out it's own money to fund support for one third party program to support another 3rd party program?


                                                                                    Adobe doesn't see the reason the improve wine to work with photoshop.....so Google does it? Logically, if there wasn't a good enough reason to make photoshop work on linux...why would google be spending so much money on it? Similar to how google is funding Netflix to come to linux, etc.


                                                                                    Honestly Chris, if it is against Adobe policy to contribute code to the one program that has the capability of bringing YOUR SOFTWARE to a whole new audience....you have one screwed up policy in my opinion. "we aren't going to help or contribute, but if you guys want to make us more money in the end....go for it!"


                                                                                    But thank goodness for Google, seems like they always can tell potential where they see it, and are willing to support those whome diserve it.

                                                                                    • 159. Re: PhotoShop For Linux ?
                                                                                      flyboi22 Level 1

                                                                                      Google invested money into Wine to create a simple port of their Picasa program to linux. It was the identical windows version, but with a lightly modified version of wine packaged with it to allow it to run.


                                                                                      The same could easily be done with Photoshop. The Adobe team could do the same thing. They could create a linux version with a 'lightly modified' wine version packaged with it to allow it to work. Honestly, if Adobe just asked Google to turn over the altered wine source code it used with Picasa it probably would without hesitation.


                                                                                      So, Adobe team, it CAN be done. Google has done it.