16 Replies Latest reply on Sep 9, 2009 1:28 PM by MarkWeiss

    2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows

    Sebalv

      As I stated in the title, my version is Premiere Pro CS4 in Windows. My system specs are:

       

      Motherboard:Intel D975XBX2

      CPU; Intel Q6700 (2.66 Ghz)

      RAM: 8 GB OCZ Platinum

      Graphics card: HIS Radeon 4850 1 GB with 2 DVI ports

      Hard drives: Western Digital Caviar 320 and 640 GB

      OS: Windows 7 64 bit RC

       

      I have two problems with the secondary monitor preview in Premiere. My secondary monitor is my TV set, a Sony HDTV, connected to the HIS Radeon using a cable that is DVI on one end and HDMI on the other.

       

      When I edit HD video, whether it's AVCHD or HDV, the preview on the TV set is not interlaced, it's progressive as if Premiere was merging the fields together. I know the radeon is powerful enough to properly display HD interlaced video, if I play a BD I authored from my videos in Totalmedia Theatre 3 it plays them back as good as the blu-ray player does. My guess is that the video being played in the source monitor or the timeline in Premiere doesn't get hardware acceleration. Is there a way to force this? Perhaps a plugin?

       

      The other problem is that the gamma in the secondary monitor preview in Premiere is darker than what is supposed to be. I compared the same frame between my AVCHD camcorder and Premiere and in Premiere it looks noticeably darker. However, when I did the same between my camcorder and Sony Vegas, there was no difference. I have to go into the Radeon's control panel and compensate for this, but isn't there a setting in Premiere itself to adjust the gamma?

        • 1. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

          Problem number one is that you are using a computer monitor (DVI) output from your graphics card that is designed to always put out a progressive image because all computer monitors are progressive displays.  It has nothing to do with Premiere..

          • 2. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
            Sebalv Level 1

            Bill Gehrke wrote:

             

            Problem number one is that you are using a computer monitor (DVI) output from your graphics card that is designed to always put out a progressive image because all computer monitors are progressive displays.  It has nothing to do with Premiere..

             

            Not really. I mean, if that were the case, when I play an interlaced blu-ray disc from Totalmedia Theatre it would look the same way, but the motion looks as good as when it comes out of my blu-ray player or the camcorder itself connected to the TV set through HDMI. It's something else.

            • 3. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              What kind of HDTV?  All flat panel displays (LCD, OLED, Plasmas) as well as RPTVs (DLP, LCD, LCoS) are progressive displays only, much like computer monitors.  Only CRT sets are truuly capable of displaying an interlaced signal.

              • 4. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                Sebalv Level 1

                JSS1138 wrote:

                 

                What kind of HDTV?  All flat panel displays (LCD, OLED, Plasmas) as well as RPTVs (DLP, LCD, LCoS) are progressive displays only, much like computer monitors.  Only CRT sets are truuly capable of displaying an interlaced signal.

                 

                I know that all HDTVs display progressive, but when I say interlaced I refer to the source and how it is displayed. If the source is interlaced, such as 1080i AVCHD or HDV footage, the TV displays it progressive, but the deinterlacing method it applies to it still makes it look interlaced, in the sense that the motion looks more fluid, and visibly different from a movie, or video shot with a consumer camcorder but in 30p mode.

                 

                So Premiere, in the second monitor, displays footage that was shot in 1080i in a way that looks as if it had been shot in 30p mode, but with some stutter.

                 

                Again, if I export the same timeline to MPEG or AVC and burn it to a BD, and then play it with Total Media Theatre, it displays it on the second monitor the way it's supposed to be, and it's the same connectors and cables.

                • 5. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  but the deinterlacing method it applies to it still makes it look interlaced

                   

                  I don't understand that.  Can you elaborate?

                  • 6. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                    Sebalv Level 1

                    JSS1138 wrote:

                     

                    but the deinterlacing method it applies to it still makes it look interlaced

                     

                    I don't understand that.  Can you elaborate?

                     

                    If you watch broadcast TV, it's like the difference between when you see a series or a sitcom, which are shot in film or in progressive video, and shows like talk shows or the news which are shot on interlaced video. You can always tell the difference, the motion in the latter looks more fluid, especially in camera movements.

                    • 7. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      OK.  Got that part.  Now what do you mean by the following?

                       

                      play it with Total Media Theatre, it displays it on the second monitor the way it's supposed to be

                       

                      Just how is it "supposed to be"?

                      • 8. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                        Sebalv Level 1

                        JSS1138 wrote:

                         

                        OK.  Got that part.  Now what do you mean by the following?

                         

                        play it with Total Media Theatre, it displays it on the second monitor the way it's supposed to be

                         

                        Just how is it "supposed to be"?

                         

                        Well, if the content is interlaced, it plays as well as if I played it in my Blu-ray player, showing motion that looks interlaced when it was recorded that way.

                        • 9. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          Yeah, that's the part that confuses me.  Flast panel displays can't show interlaced.  It's progressive only.  So interlaced media shown on a flat panel will naturally have some of that 30p look, because it is being displayed as 30p.  You can't get a genuine interlaced look on a flat panel display, only on CRTs.

                          • 10. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                            MarkWeiss Level 1

                            I have the same type of problem with progressive 1080P material. The second monitor only outputs 540 lines. Now that we've built a screening room complete with a 154" Cinemascope screen driven by an InFocus IN82 projector, this problem is only magnified. 540 lines looks awful at that size.

                            I wish there was a way to force Premiere to output the whole raster on the 2nd display. At present, we first have to render to QuickTime Photo JPEG, then play it in VLC Media Player on the second display. That really slows things down, but at least the client doesn't keep asking why it's so jagged looking. No matter how much you explain to a client that this is a draft preview, they always have it in the back of their head that the footage is inferior.

                            • 11. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                              I am wondering if this is could be the result of having a none HDCP compliant or mis-connmunications on the HDCP protocol with the graphics board and therefore the monitor/projector down-rezs' the video.

                              • 12. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                                Sebalv Level 1

                                MarkWeiss wrote:

                                 

                                I have the same type of problem with progressive 1080P material. The second monitor only outputs 540 lines. Now that we've built a screening room complete with a 154" Cinemascope screen driven by an InFocus IN82 projector, this problem is only magnified. 540 lines looks awful at that size.

                                I wish there was a way to force Premiere to output the whole raster on the 2nd display. At present, we first have to render to QuickTime Photo JPEG, then play it in VLC Media Player on the second display. That really slows things down, but at least the client doesn't keep asking why it's so jagged looking. No matter how much you explain to a client that this is a draft preview, they always have it in the back of their head that the footage is inferior.

                                 

                                I don't have that problem. My second monitor outputs all 1080 lines, but not interlaced, but rather merging the fields in a way that makes the footage look like it was shot in progressive mode.

                                • 13. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  That's normal.  All flat panel displays will do that.

                                  • 14. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                                    MarkWeiss Level 1

                                    I should clarify that, yes, it DOES output 1080 lines, as the monitor shows that it's receiving "1080P", however the problem is every scan line is repeated twice, effectively reducing the resolution to 540 effective scanlines. The horizontal res is 1920, but with the doubling of scanlines, the vertical is 1080/2. Any time there's a farm fence in the picture, it's 'walking' up and down in pixels and is not well-defined.

                                     

                                    If I play the same clip from VLC Media Player on the second monitor, it looks like a non-digital image--no aliasing, no jaggies, just super amazing detail.

                                     

                                    Definately not HDCP issue, as the projector is a new model HDMI 1.3 compliant.

                                     

                                    I had this problem with my HDCP compliant 47" LCD prior to this. Scanline doubling looks like cheap deinterlacing.

                                    • 15. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                                      Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                      MarkWeiss wrote:

                                       


                                       

                                      Definately not HDCP issue, as the projector is a new model HDMI 1.3 compliant.

                                       

                                       

                                      But is the graphic card also HDMI 1.3?

                                      • 16. Re: 2 Questions about secondary monitor preview - CS4 Windows
                                        MarkWeiss Level 1

                                        It's certainly HDCP compliant, as it's a relatively new GeForce 8800.

                                         

                                        The problem is also exclusive to Premiere Pro only. Other programs output the full 1080 lines, not doubled.