1 2 Previous Next 48 Replies Latest reply on Jul 28, 2008 7:16 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?

    Level 7
      Say I've got a bunch of article title sizes, numbered by px size, as so :

      .title24 {
      font-size: 24px;
      }
      .title16 {
      font-size: 16px;
      }
      etc.

      And then I want them to change color when - and only when - placed in divs
      of a specific name, let's call it "carrot".

      1) What would be the proper syntax for that?

      2) Would there be any way to include a wildcard character such as "*" so
      that all ".title" classes are included regardless of what numerical suffix
      is attached to the name?

      Many thanks.


        • 1. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
          Level 7
          What container are these titles included within?

          There is no wildcard as you describe it, but there may be another way to
          solve that problem. Can you give us an example of an article title?

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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          "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
          news:g6cn32$c5n$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > Say I've got a bunch of article title sizes, numbered by px size, as so :
          >
          > .title24 {
          > font-size: 24px;
          > }
          > .title16 {
          > font-size: 16px;
          > }
          > etc.
          >
          > And then I want them to change color when - and only when - placed in divs
          > of a specific name, let's call it "carrot".
          >
          > 1) What would be the proper syntax for that?
          >
          > 2) Would there be any way to include a wildcard character such as "*" so
          > that all ".title" classes are included regardless of what numerical suffix
          > is attached to the name?
          >
          > Many thanks.
          >

          • 2. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
            Level 7
            "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
            news:g6cn7e$ce3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > What container are these titles included within?
            >
            > There is no wildcard as you describe it, but there may be another way to
            > solve that problem. Can you give us an example of an article title?

            Hi Murray,

            Well, the situation is this : a newspaper column style page, with titles of
            different sizes depending on how close they are to the top of the page (like
            a normal newspaper).

            These titles, as mentioned in the OP, are named using the following
            convention :

            .title24 {
            font-size: 24px;
            }

            .title16 {
            font-size: 16px;
            }

            ...and so on...

            I also have a:link and a:hover defined for the entire site. Essentially, I
            want to override a:link and a:hover for all the title* classes, but only
            when they are contained in a table cell using the class "stone". When
            falling under a cell using "stone", the a:link and a:hover for all title*
            classes would change (become respectively brighter than they are usually).

            I've tried everything I could think of, from "stone.title16 a:link" to
            "title16.stone a:link" to ".stone a:title16" hoping I could randomly land on
            the proper syntax... lol... but clearly, I am chasing ghosts.


            • 3. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
              Level 7
              On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:13:28 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:

              >Say I've got a bunch of article title sizes, numbered by px size, as so :
              >
              >.title24 {
              > font-size: 24px;
              >}
              >.title16 {
              > font-size: 16px;
              >}
              >etc.
              >
              >And then I want them to change color when - and only when - placed in divs
              >of a specific name, let's call it "carrot".
              >
              >1) What would be the proper syntax for that?
              >

              div.carrot.table24 { font-size: 24px;}



              >2) Would there be any way to include a wildcard character such as "*" so
              >that all ".title" classes are included regardless of what numerical suffix
              >is attached to the name?
              >
              Not sure why you would need to include all table* classes as they
              change the font size in this case and you can only have one font size
              ??

              But wait - for titles on a web page - maybe you should be using h*
              tags

              i.e.

              h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 { font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif;
              font-weight:bold;}

              h1 { font-size: 24px;}
              h2 { font-size: 20px;}
              h3 { font-size: 22px;}
              h4 { font-size: 20px;}
              h5 { font-size: 18px;}
              h6 { font-size: 16px;}

              and then if you wanted a customised style in a particular page you
              amended it like this

              <h2 class="special">Special text</p>


              h2.special { font-size: 22px; }





              --

              ~Malcolm~*...
              ~*
              • 4. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                Level 7
                It would really help me to see a snippet of code with some context - can you
                do that?

                Alternatively, you could always give each of those things a SECOND class,
                e.g,

                #carrot a.foo { color:blue!important; }

                which *may* properly style your markup -

                <a href="#" class="title16 foo"....

                --
                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                Adobe Community Expert
                (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                ==================
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                ==================


                "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                news:g6cnnl$cub$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                > news:g6cn7e$ce3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                >> What container are these titles included within?
                >>
                >> There is no wildcard as you describe it, but there may be another way to
                >> solve that problem. Can you give us an example of an article title?
                >
                > Hi Murray,
                >
                > Well, the situation is this : a newspaper column style page, with titles
                > of different sizes depending on how close they are to the top of the page
                > (like a normal newspaper).
                >
                > These titles, as mentioned in the OP, are named using the following
                > convention :
                >
                > .title24 {
                > font-size: 24px;
                > }
                >
                > .title16 {
                > font-size: 16px;
                > }
                >
                > ...and so on...
                >
                > I also have a:link and a:hover defined for the entire site. Essentially, I
                > want to override a:link and a:hover for all the title* classes, but only
                > when they are contained in a table cell using the class "stone". When
                > falling under a cell using "stone", the a:link and a:hover for all title*
                > classes would change (become respectively brighter than they are usually).
                >
                > I've tried everything I could think of, from "stone.title16 a:link" to
                > "title16.stone a:link" to ".stone a:title16" hoping I could randomly land
                > on the proper syntax... lol... but clearly, I am chasing ghosts.
                >

                • 5. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                  Level 7
                  On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:24:27 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:


                  >
                  >I also have a:link and a:hover defined for the entire site. Essentially, I
                  >want to override a:link and a:hover for all the title* classes, but only
                  >when they are contained in a table cell using the class "stone". When
                  >falling under a cell using "stone", the a:link and a:hover for all title*
                  >classes would change (become respectively brighter than they are usually).
                  >
                  >I've tried everything I could think of, from "stone.title16 a:link" to
                  >"title16.stone a:link" to ".stone a:title16" hoping I could randomly land on
                  >the proper syntax... lol... but clearly, I am chasing ghosts.
                  >


                  .stone.title a:link {..}

                  or following on from previous post

                  #homePage .tempNotice a:link { color:red; }
                  #homePage .tempNotice a:visited { color:blue; }
                  --

                  ~Malcolm~*...
                  ~*
                  • 6. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                    Level 7
                    "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                    news:ieoj849q5v044bt41gpf7v1k3b6en8jn1f@4ax.com...
                    >
                    >>And then I want them to change color when - and only when - placed in divs
                    >>of a specific name, let's call it "carrot".
                    >>
                    >>1) What would be the proper syntax for that?
                    >>
                    >
                    > div.carrot.table24 { font-size: 24px;}

                    How would this apply to colors, though? Because it's the colors I'm
                    changing, not the sizes.

                    td.carrot.table16 a:link {color:ffffff} doesn't work. :-(

                    (I know I wrote divs higher up, but I meant cells, sorry.)


                    • 7. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                      Level 7
                      "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                      news:g6cod5$dkh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      > It would really help me to see a snippet of code with some context - can
                      > you do that?

                      <td valign="top" class="stone" id="stoneA"
                      onmouseover="P7_MultiClass2('stoneA','stoneOver')"
                      onmouseout="P7_MultiClass2('stoneA','stone')">
                      <a href="#">
                      <div class="stoneCap">
                      <p class="title16">Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit</p>
                      <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam
                      nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat
                      volutpat. Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation
                      ullamcorper suscipit loborti nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit
                      loborti.</p>
                      </div>
                      </a>
                      </td>

                      Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within the
                      <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is placed.
                      It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser out there.

                      As for the classes, well, there's :

                      a:link, a:visited {
                      color: #ccc6c0;
                      }
                      a:hover, a:active, a:focus {
                      color: #FCF7F2;
                      }

                      --

                      .stone, .stoneOver {
                      border-right: 1px solid #8C7C6F;
                      border-left: 2px solid #171009;
                      background: url(/images/stoneBg.jpg) left top;
                      font-family: Tahoma, Geneva, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
                      font-size:11px;
                      margin: 0px 0px 6px;
                      }
                      .stone {
                      filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(opacity=85);
                      opacity: 0.85;
                      -moz-opacity: 0.85;
                      }
                      .stoneOver {
                      filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(opacity=100);
                      opacity: 1;
                      -moz-opacity: 1;
                      }

                      --

                      .title16, .title16 a:link, .title16 a:visited {
                      font-size: 16px;
                      color: #E4DFDA;
                      }
                      .title16 a:hover {
                      color: #FF0000;
                      }


                      Now, there are 2 bugs in this (I actually just noticed the first).

                      #1) The .title16 a:link and a:hover colors are being totally ignored at all
                      times.

                      #2) Once they work, I'd like to override them with other colors when they're
                      inside ".stone" (or ".stoneOver", via PVII MultiClass swap).




                      • 8. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                        Level 7
                        On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:44:24 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:

                        >"Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                        >news:ieoj849q5v044bt41gpf7v1k3b6en8jn1f@4ax.com...
                        >>
                        >>>And then I want them to change color when - and only when - placed in divs
                        >>>of a specific name, let's call it "carrot".
                        >>>
                        >>>1) What would be the proper syntax for that?
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >> div.carrot.table24 { font-size: 24px;}
                        >
                        >How would this apply to colors, though? Because it's the colors I'm
                        >changing, not the sizes.
                        >
                        >td.carrot.table16 a:link {color:ffffff} doesn't work. :-(
                        >
                        >(I know I wrote divs higher up, but I meant cells, sorry.)
                        >

                        css
                        table.carrot a:link {color:silver;}


                        html
                        <table width="80%" border="1" class="carrot">
                        --

                        ~Malcolm~*...
                        ~*
                        • 9. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                          Level 7
                          On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:13:28 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:

                          sorry I jumped in Murray - I'll have to refresh my newsreader more
                          often :-)

                          --

                          ~Malcolm~*...
                          ~*
                          • 10. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                            Level 7
                            Well, I'm a bit lost with following the scenario, so help away....

                            --
                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                            Adobe Community Expert
                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                            ==================
                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            ==================


                            "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                            news:hcqj845kscacmjhdit8lll79mbk8gsrekh@4ax.com...
                            > On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:13:28 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:
                            >
                            > sorry I jumped in Murray - I'll have to refresh my newsreader more
                            > often :-)
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > ~Malcolm~*...
                            > ~*

                            • 11. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                              Level 7
                              > Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within
                              > the <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is
                              > placed. It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser out
                              > there.

                              It's invalid code, though.

                              --
                              Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                              Adobe Community Expert
                              (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                              ==================
                              http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              ==================


                              "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                              news:g6cpgj$eqe$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                              > news:g6cod5$dkh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >> It would really help me to see a snippet of code with some context - can
                              >> you do that?
                              >
                              > <td valign="top" class="stone" id="stoneA"
                              > onmouseover="P7_MultiClass2('stoneA','stoneOver')"
                              > onmouseout="P7_MultiClass2('stoneA','stone')">
                              > <a href="#">
                              > <div class="stoneCap">
                              > <p class="title16">Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit</p>
                              > <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam
                              > nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat
                              > volutpat. Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation
                              > ullamcorper suscipit loborti nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit
                              > loborti.</p>
                              > </div>
                              > </a>
                              > </td>
                              >
                              > Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within
                              > the <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is
                              > placed. It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser out
                              > there.
                              >
                              > As for the classes, well, there's :
                              >
                              > a:link, a:visited {
                              > color: #ccc6c0;
                              > }
                              > a:hover, a:active, a:focus {
                              > color: #FCF7F2;
                              > }
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > .stone, .stoneOver {
                              > border-right: 1px solid #8C7C6F;
                              > border-left: 2px solid #171009;
                              > background: url(/images/stoneBg.jpg) left top;
                              > font-family: Tahoma, Geneva, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
                              > font-size:11px;
                              > margin: 0px 0px 6px;
                              > }
                              > .stone {
                              > filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(opacity=85);
                              > opacity: 0.85;
                              > -moz-opacity: 0.85;
                              > }
                              > .stoneOver {
                              > filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(opacity=100);
                              > opacity: 1;
                              > -moz-opacity: 1;
                              > }
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > .title16, .title16 a:link, .title16 a:visited {
                              > font-size: 16px;
                              > color: #E4DFDA;
                              > }
                              > .title16 a:hover {
                              > color: #FF0000;
                              > }
                              >
                              >
                              > Now, there are 2 bugs in this (I actually just noticed the first).
                              >
                              > #1) The .title16 a:link and a:hover colors are being totally ignored at
                              > all times.
                              >
                              > #2) Once they work, I'd like to override them with other colors when
                              > they're inside ".stone" (or ".stoneOver", via PVII MultiClass swap).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              • 12. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                Level 7
                                On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:54:49 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:


                                >
                                >Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within the
                                ><div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is placed.
                                >It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser out there.
                                >

                                I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???

                                --

                                ~Malcolm~*...
                                ~*
                                • 13. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                  Level 7
                                  On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:03:49 -0400, "Murray *ACE*"
                                  <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote:

                                  >> Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within
                                  >> the <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is
                                  >> placed. It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser out
                                  >> there.
                                  >
                                  >It's invalid code, though.

                                  snap
                                  :-)
                                  --

                                  ~Malcolm~*...
                                  ~*
                                  • 14. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                    Level 7
                                    On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:01:58 -0400, "Murray *ACE*"
                                    <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote:

                                    >Well, I'm a bit lost with following the scenario, so help away....


                                    maybe the transatlantic link is a bit slow today - :-)
                                    --

                                    ~Malcolm~*...
                                    ~*
                                    • 15. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                      Level 7
                                      My brain is slow today. The markup approach in the snippet is not similar
                                      to any approach I would have taken....

                                      --
                                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                      ==================
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                                      ==================


                                      "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                      news:c2rj84h86dunjq15r4ktm6qrcmb4v5cha7@4ax.com...
                                      > On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:01:58 -0400, "Murray *ACE*"
                                      > <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>Well, I'm a bit lost with following the scenario, so help away....
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > maybe the transatlantic link is a bit slow today - :-)
                                      > --
                                      >
                                      > ~Malcolm~*...
                                      > ~*

                                      • 16. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                        Level 7
                                        "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                        news:g6cq1d$f8q$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >> Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within
                                        >> the <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is
                                        >> placed. It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser
                                        >> out there.
                                        >
                                        > It's invalid code, though.

                                        And we should never use tables, and frames will make you sterile. I know, I
                                        know.

                                        Never mind, Murray.


                                        • 17. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                          Level 7
                                          "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                          news:quqj84t1j50u5ohkjn2e8hhfdoivtslhd8@4ax.com...
                                          >
                                          > I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???

                                          Well, define *could*. Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't* use
                                          tables and frames. Period.

                                          You *can* place a div inside an <a> tag and it works wonderfully well on all
                                          browsers. Just like a javascript onClick.


                                          • 18. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                            Level 7
                                            I'm just saying....

                                            And I didn't EVER say the other itmes you mention. So save your sarcasm for
                                            someone who is not trying to help you.

                                            Look - if your development style is to use invalid code to make your page
                                            'work' then go for it. You have no guarantee it will work in any given
                                            browser, however.

                                            I find the consistent use of code that validates to be very strong work
                                            enhancer.

                                            --
                                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            Adobe Community Expert
                                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            ==================
                                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            ==================


                                            "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                                            news:g6cr1m$gdm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                            > news:g6cq1d$f8q$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>> Placing the <a> outside the <div> allows me to affect everything within
                                            >>> the <div> (and <td>) simultaneously, regardless of where the cursor is
                                            >>> placed. It's really quite wonderful, and works in every modern browser
                                            >>> out there.
                                            >>
                                            >> It's invalid code, though.
                                            >
                                            > And we should never use tables, and frames will make you sterile. I know,
                                            > I know.
                                            >
                                            > Never mind, Murray.
                                            >

                                            • 19. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                              Level 7
                                              On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:22:41 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:

                                              >"Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                              >news:quqj84t1j50u5ohkjn2e8hhfdoivtslhd8@4ax.com...
                                              >>
                                              >> I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???
                                              >
                                              >Well, define *could*. Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't* use
                                              >tables and frames. Period.
                                              >
                                              >You *can* place a div inside an <a> tag and it works wonderfully well on all
                                              >browsers. Just like a javascript onClick.
                                              >

                                              whatever you may think of css and or tables - putting a block level
                                              element inside an inline one will make the code fail validation, and
                                              w3c do advice pages validate to produce predictable results in
                                              browsers and platforms.

                                              --

                                              ~Malcolm~*...
                                              ~*
                                              • 20. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                Level 7
                                                > Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't* use tables and frames.
                                                > Period.

                                                This is just nonsense. You do not see that advocated here.

                                                What you *will* see is the following -

                                                1. Frames are rarely the optimal choice for your layout, and if selected
                                                impose some serious compromises on your ability to maintain the site/layout,
                                                and on your visitors.
                                                2. Tables are best used to display tabular data. Pages with heavy use of
                                                tables as a layout method *can* cause accessability problems for users who
                                                need to use assistive devices. In addition, pages with heavy use of tables
                                                as a layout method are often MUCH heavier than pages where all that
                                                presentational markup has been offloaded into a cacheable CSS file, and
                                                doesn't need to be refetched from the server for each new page loaded.

                                                If you are going to sling accusations around, please try to be accurate.

                                                --
                                                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                Adobe Community Expert
                                                (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                ==================
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                                                http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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                                                "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                                                news:g6cr4r$gfp$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                > "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                > news:quqj84t1j50u5ohkjn2e8hhfdoivtslhd8@4ax.com...
                                                >>
                                                >> I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???
                                                >
                                                > Well, define *could*. Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't*
                                                > use tables and frames. Period.
                                                >
                                                > You *can* place a div inside an <a> tag and it works wonderfully well on
                                                > all browsers. Just like a javascript onClick.
                                                >

                                                • 21. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                  Level 7
                                                  On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:21:00 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >And we should never use tables, and frames will make you sterile. I know, I
                                                  >know.
                                                  >

                                                  I'm a pragmatist - use what's appropriate and very, very very
                                                  occasionally use a small table for a quick and dirty layout on part of
                                                  a page.

                                                  But for 2 years now - I've just css floats for most pages.

                                                  I have many tables still - used for tabular data - and still enjoy the
                                                  challenge of formatting tables with css.

                                                  but each to his own.



                                                  --

                                                  ~Malcolm~*...
                                                  ~*
                                                  • 22. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                    Level 7
                                                    "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                    news:g6cr74$gh4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    > I'm just saying....
                                                    >
                                                    > So save your sarcasm for someone who is not trying to help you.

                                                    I thought I was.

                                                    > Look - if your development style is to use invalid code to make your page
                                                    > 'work' then go for it. You have no guarantee it will work in any given
                                                    > browser, however.

                                                    Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                    valid markup?

                                                    If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                    simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a living
                                                    from this as you are.


                                                    • 23. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                      Level 7
                                                      "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                      news:6nsj845iu1h5c289e3u3cvh9amnqjlqbsm@4ax.com...
                                                      >
                                                      > I'm a pragmatist - use what's appropriate and very, very very
                                                      > occasionally use a small table for a quick and dirty layout on part of
                                                      > a page.

                                                      I agree with you. I've been making the switch whenever possible as well, if
                                                      only to do away with the unnecessary triple tags (table, tr, td).

                                                      But you can't go 100% CSS 100% of the time, unless 100% of the sites you
                                                      design are identical in architecture (which seems to be Murray's case, from
                                                      what I've seen of his work).

                                                      > but each to his own.

                                                      Try telling Murray that. ;-)


                                                      • 24. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                        Level 7
                                                        .oO(mjs)

                                                        >"Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                        >news:quqj84t1j50u5ohkjn2e8hhfdoivtslhd8@4ax.com...
                                                        >>
                                                        >> I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???
                                                        >
                                                        >Well, define *could*.

                                                        In this case: "must not".

                                                        >Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't* use
                                                        >tables and frames. Period.

                                                        Tables and frames are at least valid code, their behaviour is well
                                                        defined.

                                                        >You *can* place a div inside an <a> tag

                                                        You can also turn around on a highway and drive in the wrong direction.

                                                        >and it works wonderfully well on all
                                                        >browsers.

                                                        No. You're relying on invalid code. The results will always be totally
                                                        unpredictable, because the browser has to guess what you might have had
                                                        in mind. Especially in HTML there might be even more surprises waiting
                                                        to happen with invalid code. Many tags are optional and some elements
                                                        are closed implicitly when the parser encounters an element that's not
                                                        allowed there. You can have a lot of "fun" to track down errors in such
                                                        broken code.

                                                        Do yourself and us a favour and write proper markup, especially if you
                                                        want other people to help you. Trying to find a problem in invalid code
                                                        doesn't make any sense and is just a waste of time.

                                                        Micha
                                                        • 25. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                          Level 7
                                                          > Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                          > valid markup?

                                                          I have no interest in that statistic. It has no impact on my personal
                                                          business ethic. I feel like if I am going to charge someone for work, then
                                                          I cannot use invalid code on the page.

                                                          > If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                          > simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a
                                                          > living from this as you are.

                                                          That may be the case, however, I will not chase layout problems unless the
                                                          code base is valid. To do otherwise is a waste of time.

                                                          --
                                                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                          Adobe Community Expert
                                                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                          ==================
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                                                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                          ==================


                                                          "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                                                          news:g6ctbp$isu$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                          > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                          > news:g6cr74$gh4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                          >> I'm just saying....
                                                          >>
                                                          >> So save your sarcasm for someone who is not trying to help you.
                                                          >
                                                          > I thought I was.
                                                          >
                                                          >> Look - if your development style is to use invalid code to make your page
                                                          >> 'work' then go for it. You have no guarantee it will work in any given
                                                          >> browser, however.
                                                          >
                                                          > Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                          > valid markup?
                                                          >
                                                          > If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                          > simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a
                                                          > living from this as you are.
                                                          >

                                                          • 26. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                            Level 7
                                                            > But you can't go 100% CSS 100% of the time, unless 100% of the sites you
                                                            > design are identical in architecture (which seems to be Murray's case,
                                                            > from what I've seen of his work).

                                                            Come on. Can we not make this a personal thing? What do you care?
                                                            Sheesh....

                                                            --
                                                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                            Adobe Community Expert
                                                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                            ==================
                                                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                            ==================


                                                            "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                                                            news:g6ctft$j0j$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                            > "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                            > news:6nsj845iu1h5c289e3u3cvh9amnqjlqbsm@4ax.com...
                                                            >>
                                                            >> I'm a pragmatist - use what's appropriate and very, very very
                                                            >> occasionally use a small table for a quick and dirty layout on part of
                                                            >> a page.
                                                            >
                                                            > I agree with you. I've been making the switch whenever possible as well,
                                                            > if only to do away with the unnecessary triple tags (table, tr, td).
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >> but each to his own.
                                                            >
                                                            > Try telling Murray that. ;-)
                                                            >

                                                            • 27. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                              Level 7
                                                              .oO(mjs)

                                                              >"Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                              >news:g6cr74$gh4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                              >> I'm just saying....
                                                              >>
                                                              >> So save your sarcasm for someone who is not trying to help you.
                                                              >
                                                              >I thought I was.
                                                              >
                                                              >> Look - if your development style is to use invalid code to make your page
                                                              >> 'work' then go for it. You have no guarantee it will work in any given
                                                              >> browser, however.
                                                              >
                                                              >Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                              >valid markup?

                                                              Doesn't matter. Just because most others produce crap you do the same?
                                                              Why not trying to be better than the dumb rest?

                                                              >If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                              >simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a living
                                                              >from this as you are.

                                                              Such designers get what they deserve. There's no point in debugging
                                                              invalid code. I (and I think most others here as well) have better
                                                              things to do.

                                                              Micha
                                                              • 28. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                Level 7
                                                                On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:02:43 -0400, "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote:

                                                                >
                                                                >I agree with you. I've been making the switch whenever possible as well, if
                                                                >only to do away with the unnecessary triple tags (table, tr, td).


                                                                Oh I put more in - use <caption>, thead, tfoot, tbody , col's :-)
                                                                gives you lots more hooks to hang css on to style the table well,
                                                                without make up soup in the html :-))
                                                                much easier to debug and maintain as well.
                                                                >
                                                                >Try telling Murray that. ;-)
                                                                >

                                                                Pistols at dawn on the Niagara Falls bridge :-)


                                                                Malcolm
                                                                in sunny Scotland
                                                                --

                                                                ~Malcolm~*...
                                                                ~*
                                                                • 29. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                                  news:g6crfm$grp$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  >> Because if you listen to the purists, you *can't* use tables and frames.
                                                                  >> Period.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > This is just nonsense. You do not see that advocated here.

                                                                  Two years ago, in this very forum, you openly stated -- to ME -- that there
                                                                  isn't a single thing you can do with tables and frames that cannot be done
                                                                  with valid markup / CSS.

                                                                  I gave you a couple of situations that require either tables, frames or
                                                                  both. Your response was simply to bah-humbug me, never showing the humility
                                                                  required to admit I had a point.

                                                                  Since then, I've seen you temper your stance to say things like "rarely"
                                                                  instead of "never". Yet despite this, you continue to lambaste anyone who's
                                                                  not using 100% valid markup / CSS to handle every situation they come
                                                                  across.

                                                                  You'll simultaneously recommend people use the best tool for the job
                                                                  (whatever that tool may be), and in the same breath, lambaste them if it's
                                                                  not 100% valid and CSS-based.

                                                                  At least stop being a hypocrite about it, Murray. Admit that you only know 1
                                                                  way of doing things, and every other method sucks.

                                                                  Or stop defecating on everything that's different from the way you'd do it.

                                                                  I've seen your websites. I respect what you do, and I think you're very
                                                                  generous with your time here. But all your sites look the same, and are
                                                                  architecturally similar. Many of my clients would want nothing to do with
                                                                  your model. And you'd be hard-pressed to address their concerns with your
                                                                  very narrow view of what's possible for them to have.

                                                                  In other words, you wouldn't know what to do with the situations some of us
                                                                  are often put in, and always find a way out of... without compromising what
                                                                  the client's asking for.

                                                                  You? Your solution is : forget what you want. Take this instead. It's 100%
                                                                  valid / CSS-based. If you don't want it, you're wrong.

                                                                  I respec that you make a living at this, especially with that kind of
                                                                  mentality.

                                                                  But to lift your nose at code that won't pass 100% validation when 99% of
                                                                  the biggest and most respected websites out there wouldn't pass that same
                                                                  test just makes you a snob of the highest order, IMHO.

                                                                  > What you *will* see is the following -
                                                                  >
                                                                  > 1. Frames are rarely the optimal choice for your layout, and if selected
                                                                  > impose some serious compromises on your ability to maintain the
                                                                  > site/layout, and on your visitors.
                                                                  > 2. Tables are best used to display tabular data. Pages with heavy use of
                                                                  > tables as a layout method *can* cause accessability problems for users who
                                                                  > need to use assistive devices. In addition, pages with heavy use of
                                                                  > tables as a layout method are often MUCH heavier than pages where all that
                                                                  > presentational markup has been offloaded into a cacheable CSS file, and
                                                                  > doesn't need to be refetched from the server for each new page loaded.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > If you are going to sling accusations around, please try to be accurate.

                                                                  What did I ever write that contradicted anything you've just written? Straw
                                                                  man arguments don't work on me.

                                                                  If you are going to sling accusations around, please try to be accurate.

                                                                  -mjs


                                                                  • 30. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                                    news:74sj845n0bvpapp221qj2l9mpbb3ljh5jg@4ax.com...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > whatever you may think of css and or tables - putting a block level
                                                                    > element inside an inline one will make the code fail validation, and
                                                                    > w3c do advice pages validate to produce predictable results in
                                                                    > browsers and platforms.

                                                                    Again, with all due respect, that only matters HERE. In this specific
                                                                    schoolyard.

                                                                    99% of the biggest and most respected websites out there in the real world
                                                                    will fail W3C validation.

                                                                    The people who designed them don't care.

                                                                    The people they were deisigned for don't care.

                                                                    The people using those sites don't care.

                                                                    All that matters to the 3 categories of people listed above is : Does it
                                                                    WORK? And will it work until the next site update?

                                                                    If everyone lived their lives the way the purists in this group write their
                                                                    code, we'd all be recycling, never drive over 55, and never eat carbs.

                                                                    It doesn't NEED to validate 100%. Never did. The biggest sites in the world
                                                                    don't.


                                                                    • 31. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                      Level 7
                                                                      "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                                      news:g6ctp5$jc3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                      >
                                                                      >> Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                                      >> valid markup?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have no interest in that statistic.

                                                                      Maybe you should DEVELOP the interest. It could be an eye-opener for you.

                                                                      >> If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                                      >> simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a
                                                                      >> living from this as you are.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > That may be the case

                                                                      It is.

                                                                      Thanks for you time anyway. Whatever else you may think of me, I honestly do
                                                                      appreciate it. But we're just too philosophically opposed -- always have
                                                                      been.

                                                                      I'm not going to validate 100% and neither are 99% of the world's finest
                                                                      websites.


                                                                      • 32. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        Thanks for saying that.....I always wondered about that...I never have given
                                                                        a crap about some standard....I care that my sites for my clients do what
                                                                        they were designed to do. That is how I get referal business. Not because
                                                                        I joined some snobby clubhouse.


                                                                        <snip>
                                                                        > The people who designed them don't care.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > The people they were deisigned for don't care.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > The people using those sites don't care.
                                                                        </snip>


                                                                        • 33. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                          Level 7
                                                                          "Michael Fesser" <netizen@gmx.de> wrote in message
                                                                          news:kiuj84l5no06i1cm5djgbofq2qr0umkl5d@4ax.com...
                                                                          > .oO(mjs)
                                                                          >
                                                                          >>Murray, what percentage of websites on the internet do you think use 100%
                                                                          >>valid markup?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Doesn't matter. Just because most others produce crap you do the same?
                                                                          > Why not trying to be better than the dumb rest?

                                                                          Et tu, Michael?

                                                                          Just because it doesn't validate 100% doesn't make it crap, or dumb. In
                                                                          fact, many of those crappy dumb sites have provided a wonderful experience
                                                                          for the end user, and made more money for the people behind them than you
                                                                          will likely ever see in your lifetime.

                                                                          Let's try to keep the condescension to a minimum, can we?

                                                                          >>If you can't help anyone unless 100% valid markup is used, then you're
                                                                          >>simply no help to 99% of the designers out there making as much of a
                                                                          >>living
                                                                          >>from this as you are.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Such designers get what they deserve.

                                                                          Oh, they're getting what they deserve, alright. I just don't think we'll
                                                                          agree on what that is. ;-)

                                                                          > There's no point in debugging
                                                                          > invalid code. I (and I think most others here as well) have better
                                                                          > things to do.

                                                                          Which is why that was the last time I'm pasting code here. The level of
                                                                          snobbery is just too high. I should have followed my original instinct and
                                                                          just ask for the proper syntax.


                                                                          • 34. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                            Level 7
                                                                            "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                                            news:g6ctrj$jf0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Come on. Can we not make this a personal thing? What do you care?
                                                                            > Sheesh....

                                                                            After everything you've insinuated about my *invalid* sites? After going
                                                                            around other threads telling people they shouldn't listen to my advice?
                                                                            *Now* you don't want to make this a personal thing?

                                                                            You've made uncalled for judgment calls on my work. I didn't cry. Neither
                                                                            should you.


                                                                            • 35. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                              Level 7
                                                                              You certainly deliver a compelling argument for mediocrity.

                                                                              On second thought, it's a mediocre argument. :-)

                                                                              --

                                                                              Walt


                                                                              "mjs" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
                                                                              news:g6cucf$k24$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                              > "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                                              > news:74sj845n0bvpapp221qj2l9mpbb3ljh5jg@4ax.com...
                                                                              >>
                                                                              >> whatever you may think of css and or tables - putting a block level
                                                                              >> element inside an inline one will make the code fail validation, and
                                                                              >> w3c do advice pages validate to produce predictable results in
                                                                              >> browsers and platforms.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > Again, with all due respect, that only matters HERE. In this specific
                                                                              > schoolyard.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > 99% of the biggest and most respected websites out there in the real world
                                                                              > will fail W3C validation.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > The people who designed them don't care.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > The people they were deisigned for don't care.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > The people using those sites don't care.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > All that matters to the 3 categories of people listed above is : Does it
                                                                              > WORK? And will it work until the next site update?
                                                                              >
                                                                              > If everyone lived their lives the way the purists in this group write
                                                                              > their code, we'd all be recycling, never drive over 55, and never eat
                                                                              > carbs.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > It doesn't NEED to validate 100%. Never did. The biggest sites in the
                                                                              > world don't.
                                                                              >


                                                                              • 36. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                                Level 7
                                                                                .oO(mjs)

                                                                                >"Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                                                >news:74sj845n0bvpapp221qj2l9mpbb3ljh5jg@4ax.com...
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >> whatever you may think of css and or tables - putting a block level
                                                                                >> element inside an inline one will make the code fail validation, and
                                                                                >> w3c do advice pages validate to produce predictable results in
                                                                                >> browsers and platforms.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >Again, with all due respect, that only matters HERE. In this specific
                                                                                >schoolyard.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >99% of the biggest and most respected websites out there in the real world
                                                                                >will fail W3C validation.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >The people who designed them don't care.

                                                                                <rant>
                                                                                They simply don't know. Writing valid markup isn't any more difficult
                                                                                than writing crap. With some experience it happens almost automatically,
                                                                                so there's absolutely _no_ excuse for invalid code. Not even a single
                                                                                one, except for incompetence and ignorance. From a true professional I
                                                                                simply expect good and correct work, regardless of whether it's HTML or
                                                                                the electric wires here in the house for example. Getting a red from the
                                                                                validator means that the designer has made a mistake and not delivered
                                                                                the expected quality, but just poor work. It's that simple.
                                                                                </rant>

                                                                                >The people they were deisigned for don't care.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >The people using those sites don't care.

                                                                                Correct. But they might become the ones who have to suffer from it.
                                                                                Many sites seem to be built just for the designers, not for the users.

                                                                                >All that matters to the 3 categories of people listed above is : Does it
                                                                                >WORK? And will it work until the next site update?

                                                                                Valid and reasonable(!) code increases the chance that it will survive
                                                                                the next big updates quite a lot.

                                                                                >If everyone lived their lives the way the purists in this group write their
                                                                                >code, we'd all be recycling, never drive over 55, and never eat carbs.

                                                                                Eh?

                                                                                >It doesn't NEED to validate 100%. Never did. The biggest sites in the world
                                                                                >don't.

                                                                                It's an unwritten law that the bigger the company, the worse the site.
                                                                                And often enough I encounter a lot of problems with such sites, simply
                                                                                because I don't use the particular environment that the designer
                                                                                "optimized" the site for. Usually all it needs is just a little bigger
                                                                                default font size to make many sites break apart. Nice work. Really.

                                                                                Micha
                                                                                • 37. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                                  Level 7
                                                                                  .oO(mjs)

                                                                                  >"Michael Fesser" <netizen@gmx.de> wrote in message
                                                                                  >news:kiuj84l5no06i1cm5djgbofq2qr0umkl5d@4ax.com...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >> There's no point in debugging
                                                                                  >> invalid code. I (and I think most others here as well) have better
                                                                                  >> things to do.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Which is why that was the last time I'm pasting code here. The level of
                                                                                  >snobbery is just too high. I should have followed my original instinct and
                                                                                  >just ask for the proper syntax.

                                                                                  Proper syntax = valid code.

                                                                                  Micha
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                                    Level 7
                                                                                    "Michael Fesser" <netizen@gmx.de> wrote in message
                                                                                    news:3ktj84p0h4errtt4c9fslufais74l235fn@4ax.com...
                                                                                    > .oO(mjs)
                                                                                    >>"Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                                                    >>news:quqj84t1j50u5ohkjn2e8hhfdoivtslhd8@4ax.com...
                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                    >>> I didn't think you could put a div inside an a: ???
                                                                                    >>
                                                                                    >>Well, define *could*.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > In this case: "must not".

                                                                                    How is that different from every other case?

                                                                                    >>and it works wonderfully well on all
                                                                                    >>browsers.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > No.

                                                                                    Yes.

                                                                                    > You're relying on invalid code.

                                                                                    I. Don't. CARE.

                                                                                    > The results will always be totally unpredictable

                                                                                    Valid code can be just as unpredictable. IE and FF don't handle the same
                                                                                    valid code the same way, as you well know. Ditto the plethora of other
                                                                                    browsers out there.

                                                                                    As for mine, the results are *very* predictable on the three main browsers I
                                                                                    tested on, which represent over 95% of the audience.

                                                                                    Giving yourself so much grief over 5% of the audience will usually get you
                                                                                    fired from most jobs; which is probably why most everyone in this group is a
                                                                                    freelancer. Out there in the real world, you can't afford to be this
                                                                                    stubborn.

                                                                                    > because the browser has to guess what you might have had
                                                                                    > in mind.

                                                                                    Well, it guessed correctly. Isn't that's what testing is for? To see if it
                                                                                    will?

                                                                                    > Especially in HTML there might be even more surprises waiting
                                                                                    > to happen with invalid code.

                                                                                    Enough with the god damn tales of witchcraft and sorcery, already! You sound
                                                                                    like my dad telling me an angel dies each time I masturbate.

                                                                                    Code is not sentient. It's not alive. It will not behave differently
                                                                                    tomorrow than it does today on the browsers I tested it on unless I do
                                                                                    something new to it, or those browsers get updates that include changes
                                                                                    affecting this specific behavior.

                                                                                    > Many tags are optional and some elements
                                                                                    > are closed implicitly when the parser encounters an element that's not
                                                                                    > allowed there.

                                                                                    This kind of talk might scare clients who've never touched code, but it's
                                                                                    not working on me. Sorry.

                                                                                    > You can have a lot of "fun" to track down errors in such
                                                                                    > broken code.

                                                                                    Troubleshooting is part of the process whether the code is considered valid
                                                                                    by W3C standards or not. If you understand what you did, and you wrote the
                                                                                    code yourself, valid or not, you will have some idea of where the problem
                                                                                    lies and a starting point towards fixing it.

                                                                                    I've yet to encounter a problem I haven't been able to solve, invalid code
                                                                                    and all.

                                                                                    Your house was probably not built to 100% city specifications. Does that
                                                                                    mean you lie awake at night worrying about it falling on you? Why does
                                                                                    invalid code automatically mean the whole thing will crumble? In 10 years of
                                                                                    writing alleged invalid code, I've yet to have 1 site crumble on me. And the
                                                                                    day it will, it'll be because I failed to test properly before releasing.

                                                                                    > Do yourself and us a favour and write proper markup, especially if you
                                                                                    > want other people to help you. Trying to find a problem in invalid code
                                                                                    > doesn't make any sense and is just a waste of time.

                                                                                    I respect that you think so. And won't hold a grudge if you step aside.


                                                                                    • 39. Re: Is there such a thing as a wildcard '*' in CSS?
                                                                                      Level 7
                                                                                      Michael Fesser" <netizen@gmx.de> wrote in message
                                                                                      news:0a0k84p43sionbs73vfnkj7nijsrv4c1tt@4ax.com...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >>I should have followed my original instinct and
                                                                                      >>just ask for the proper syntax.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Proper syntax = valid code.

                                                                                      Right. And everyone would have been happy. =)

                                                                                      Or were you insinuating that because it's valid code, I wouldn't want to use
                                                                                      it? If that's the case, all I can do is roll my eyes skywards.


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