My original quote, Apple Quote SC46222277, was generated by Turturici, Dan [email@example.com], in a confirming email on 06-03-2009. I made at least two attempts to request modification of the quoted configuration by email, and one by telephone, and received no response.
Subsequent contacts with Apple have been at the support number, (800) MyApple. Regret I did not take names of techs who responded.
On or about 09-09 at 2230 EDT the person told me that the machine as quoted would not support PS CS4, and that a different graphics card was required. I asked for email confirmation but it was not received.
On or about 09-14 at 2030 EDT (more likely according to my notes) or 09-15 at 0940 EDT, the person looked up paperwork and reported that the latest release of S-L O/S supports neither PS CS4, PS Elements v. 6 (used for teaching) nor DW CS4. Had no information on upgrades or possible fixes or ETAs of hardware suitable for my use. I asked for email confirmation and was advised that tech support personnel do not have the capability to send email.
Support phone logs should contain my name John Cane or Jack Cane, telephone (706) 974-6049, and/or email firstname.lastname@example.org.
I'm thinking of composing a letter to Mr. Jobs about all of this. The entire process is rather retro. There is no electronic access to leave notes about changes to my configuration quote. The only access to date has been via said 800 line, which has long periods on hold playing obnoxious music in distorted audio. The last support tech. indicated that there was a chat channel. That will be my next attempt to get this going.
I have also had limited contact with the Apple Store in the Atlanta suburbs, and may pursue that alternative as well, possibly working with them to complete the order.
Sorry you got bad information from them.
While there are a number of documented problems in Snow Leopard (that Apple is actively working on), there are no known problems specific to Photoshop CS4 on Snow Leopard at this time. I don't work with Elements or DreamWeaver closely enough to track their issues, but don't think we've seen anything not already covered in the Snow Leopard FAQ ( http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/faq/ )
We'll try to follow up on the misinformation with Apple.
I received this from Adobe Tech Support this morning…
TS Case Details: 181184672 _______________________________ _______________________
***Notes to Customer*** 09/22/200900:00:20
Thank you for contacting Adobe® Web Support for assistance with Adobe Photoshop® CS4.
I understand that after upgrading your operating system, Photoshop crashes when trying to open and save files.
This is a known issue, and Adobe is actively working with Apple® to resolve it. I have included a link to a technical document for this issue:
Adobe did test all of CS4 on Snow Leopard, for several months -- at that time we did not see the crashing bugs that are in the final release
We still don't know why we didn't see them, and won't know until Apple discloses the exact nature of the bug in their code and when it was introduced.
But we are continuing to work with Apple to help them resolve this bug in the OS.
As a pre-rookie Mac user, I'm a bit gun shy about taking the plunge (I guess that's three metaphors in one sentence).
Can anyone advise about the workflow to correct O/S bugs. Will there be a simple patch to the O/S, easily downloaded and installed later on, or will the O/S need to be completely reinstalled?
Answer affects my decision to "take the plunge", i.e., order my first-ever apple hardware. Actually my second; also have the iPhone.
I hope this does not muddy the waters for you but I thought my experience might help. I just upgraded my MacBook Pro from several years ago to a new MacBook Pro that came preloaded with Snow Leopard. After Starting up and downloading the latest update (10.6.1) using Software Update in the OS I then installed Photoshop CS4 from my original Disk. I then ran the "check for updates" from within Photoshop CS4, downloaded and installed the updates. I have been using it daily since last Friday. I have come across no issues so far. Opening and saving jpg and tiff files, opening and closing Nef files (through ACR) and all other aspects of the program that I use all function normally. Hope this helps...
They do NOT come close to running fine. I've paid apple to do a clean install of snow leopard and CS4 PS crashes and loses work ever day... it's a total mess.
I would never have upgraded to SL if I didn't read Adobe press releases touting CS4 compatibility with SL.... NOT
I'm losing all faith in Adobe very quickly
You've been a champ by sticking in here, but earlier suggestions to do a clean install have cost me more in time and money (apple charged $150 to do a clean install and I manually reinstalled every app) and have not made anything better at all.
It is clear that Adobe (and Apple) have not properly tested SL and Adobe products. After the clean install, I have held off reinstalling anything that the developer does not state is SL ready... one of those is Adobe !!!
Why in the world would Adobe make statements that CS4 is fine with SL? it obviously is NOT.
Now I'm back to where I was two weeks ago losing work in PS and going crazy again.
The ONLY good thing that has happened is that I am finally getting somewhat proficient with Aperture ! (a sorry statement)
So my anger is not misdirected... there is plenty to go around these days and Adobe definitely has EARNED some of it.
A lot of this angst would go away if Adobe admitted there were problems and gave some estimates of what the dimension of it is and when it might be fixed with an update patch... all we have is official silence and denial at this point.
Hi Tom, and Mike, etc.,
I'm not talking for the company, just myself (as an employee). Companies sometimes spin, but they also want to manage expectations. No one wants to be the person that tells someone else "everything is great" only to negatively impact another persons productivity. What benefit is there for Adobe to push sales of an Apple OS that generates no revenue for Adobe? It costs Adobe very little to say, "stay on Leopard" if there are lots of known issues before release -- so if we're telling you we're not seeing extraordinary problems before a release, it's because we were not.
I certainly understand justified frustration if you're the one having a problem that was missed in testing by at least two companies and many hundreds or even thousands of beta testers during Snow Leopard's two year development cycle. I don't believe anyone in the development and support organization wants to maliciously hurt their customers (which is the whole reason for their jobs). All we can do is communicate as quickly and clearly as possible.
So I sincerely apologize for any problems you're having. We're working with Apple and our own QE's and customers to find, fix, work-around, and communicate to you as quick as possible. But many of these fail conditions are not expected and extremely hard to duplicate or we would have found them and documented them long before they hit the wild (some we're still having problems replicating in-house). Anything you can do to help work with our customer care, is greatly appreciated.
While everything that you speak of sounds fair and honest, I just can't believe that something that is THIS detrimental was missed with ALL the people involved in the testing process. To me, who ever is in charge of internal testing at Apple and Adobe should be accountable for such a debacle. As unintentional as it may seam, this just goes to show the lack of control on many fronts by both corporations involved. Just as customer service has gone into the toilet for Adobe one can only think that Alpha and Beta testing at both facilities has followed suit. Then again, it's just the expected condition when a company becomes too large to control too many things going on at one time - forced by marketing to release products not ready - due to the fact that software testing is not diverse enough.
David, thanks for your posts.
I am one of the frustrated users experiencing Photoshop Saving bugs, to the point where the application is unusable.
Is there any way I (or people like me) can actually help Adobe/Apple troubleshoot this issue, especially if the problem is difficult to repeat in your labs?
I can tell you, for example, that with 100% certainty this issue occurs when a file is saved with a NEW NAME to the hard drive. Once you've successfully opened or created a document, and are able to save it once, you can then continue to do regular File > Saves to you heart's content, just like normal.
But, when you go to Save AS (for example, you're working in a layered PSD file and need to save out some flattened JPEGs), that process quite literally becomes a game of Russian Roulette as you begin the frustrating process of random (but quite frequent and repeatable) crashes when Saving As.
As has been noted in other threads, this bug affects non-Adobe apps as well, but ALSO occurs in those other apps (I've seen it in Safari, etc.) when the OS receives the name of a file it is not expecting. My (non-engineer) observation is that the bug is related to harddrive I/O. From what I understand, when a file is saved, the hard drive allocates enough space to save the data in the file. Once that space is established, Snow Leopard seems to have no problem maintaining access to that allocated space for data reading and writing.
However, when you tell Snow Leopard you need to create a NEW file, and it has to allocate NEW space on the hard drive to save that data, *that's* when the error occurs. It seems to have a problem allocating new space on the hard drive, when it doesn't know how big your file is about to be.
Perhaps this problem is related to the new base-10 filesize reporting scheme that Snow Leopard introduced.
Unfortunately no crash reports are generated (the app just "disappears" from running, with no error reported, though you must still Force Quit it from the Dock in order to restart), so I can't share any logs (unless there are some hidden that I don't know about). However, I'm happy to help however I can, I live 3 blocks from Adobe HQ in SF, and I can test out any potential fixes if Apple/Adobe aren't able to replicate the problem.
Thanks Robbie (and Tom) for the offer to help more. I think on the particular open/save issue, we've got enough info on that one for now, but I'll definitely keep the offer in mind. That additional information is nice, I'll make sure it gets added to the bug databases. Someone else reported that the issue may be less common on a clean/new user account, rather than an older one. Anyways, thanks again for the offer of help, I'll make sure people know of that.
Tom - all I can say is that in the beta release we received from Apple, we did not see these crashing bugs in any of our applications.
Clean installs aren't going to fix a bug in the OS code.
Adobe cannot estimate anything about bugs in Apple's code, or give any promises about when they might be fixed.
You don't have silence or denial. I have explained the bugs you are seeing, and directed you to the responsible party.
There's not much more I can do.
We are all waiting on Apple to fix these bugs so we can use Snow Leopard.
Ahem. We're getting off topic and in an area I'm very uncomfortable with. (Adobe and Apple respect either others business and try not to play finger pointing games so lets stop creating drama please).
1) Both Apple and Adobe have done Public Beta's and NOT done public betas. There's lots of reasons for either choice. It is hard to sell to many companies (Adobe included) that they should take long delays, negative press (over bugs in betas that you're fixing anyways), huge costs, and other issues around managing public betas.
2) I can't speak for Apple, but we did not see the crashes ahead of time (and Apple and 3rd parties would have told us if they had). So this was obviously a surprise to everyone.
Not as an excuse, but I understand this problem appears to happen more on complex ("lived in") user accounts/systems that have been around longer. For practical reasons, most QE is done on clean machines (fresh OS and fresh App installs, and not a ton of 3rd party stuff polluting it, etc.). So despite tons of testing on our part (and assumably others), it appears it was in a way that was unlikely to ever uncover this kind of sneaky-bug. Mea culpa.
It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.... we should have focused more testing on exactly the type of dirty system (multiple upgrades, multiple apps, complex user folders, etc., etc.) or other things that may cause or aggravate the bug -- once we know what those are. But QA is about narrowing the impossible task of "test everything in every configuration against every file possible", to a more practical and manageable, "test what is likely to break, in ways that it is likely to break". Obviously, this got by that filter (by us, and other companies and many individuals). We'll add more test cases to try to make sure this doesn't happen again. But once you already missed, all the rational explanations or justifications don't matter. What's important is that we communicate honestly, manage expectations, and get it fixed as quickly as you can. We're trying to do all these things as best we can.
Some of your analysis describes my situation... but some is way off the mark. For instance, I have one mac with clean install and one with upgrade over existing crud... both fail about the same amount.
The only other app I had serious problems with was Photomatrix... the clean install solved that and it works fine now.
I agree with other statements that it seems the crashes almost always occur when saving files with changes (and seemingly a bit more with .tif files than .psd... but not totally).
I'm mad at apple adobe and myself... I just switched to mac about one year ago and started believing the fanboy propaganda since everything worked so well for me. I now see that major upgrades are no better on mac than they were on windows and anyone who does it right away is bat crazy.
When I have time over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to roll all three macs back to Leopard and call it a day ... I'll log back in in 6 months to see how everyone likes 10.6.6
Thanks for your help. You present a reasonable case, but the real answer is never upgrade so fast... whether it's apple, adobe or anything else.
Well, I thought I'd try a clean install since I had everything on a software RAID 0 configuration. The idea was that, since there was possibly an IO issue, that maybe a single drive would get things working. Thought it might be helpful feedback in either case to help troubleshoot the issue. Bought a new drive, did a clean install of 10.6.0 on it, updated to 10.6.1. Migrated apps and settings to the new drive from the RAID drive. All apps worked except of course the Adobe ones. Got the dreaded
"Licensing for this product has stopped working"
message. Per the instructions, did an uninstall and reinstall without success. Tried the various steps indicated under kb401528 without success. As of now, PS, AI and DW, are not working. All items were purchased at full retail and I have valid serial numbers but can't get the products working on the migrated system. I wish I had a choice to migrate all apps except Adobe ones but Apple doesn't give that choice. Apparently Adobe apps are not "migratable".
I am amazed at the steps Adobe goes through to prevent honest people with valid licenses from reinstalling their software. I don't have the hours to spend on hold for customer support so if anyone has any ideas on how to proceed, I'd really appreciate it.
Well, after a lot of work, I can report that nothing has changed! I finally resolved the license issue and was able to do a few tests. Same problem that Robbie reported after migrating from a software RAID 0 to a single 10k spindle drive.
So I guess I will have to limp along on a FW-connected 10.5.8/PS CS3 until the "powers that be" decide to fix this stuff.
I may have spoken too soon. After disabling the Menlo font, I was able to do a few operations on the single hard disk that had failed before on the RAID array. It may be that certain hardware/software configurations that could interfere with write latency, etc. may in fact exacerbate the problem. In any case, it looks promising at this point (he said with fingers crossed).
These font issues with SL have been well documented, whether it is bad fonts that shipped with SL or there is a bug that will not tolerate things like bad or certain kinds of, or duplicate fonts I do not know but in most cases removing all no OS essential fonts has stopped the Open and Save crashing.
Certainly it is possible that there are driver incompatibilities with peripherals, but that is even easier to diagnose.
Do search for "smcfancontrol" and install that. It will let you control the fans in the Macs and solve the overheating problem which seems to be causing all the trouble. After installing in my MBP I found the the MBP at idle was running 65c and as soon as I loaded PS it went to 75c and soon beachballed.
Smcfancontrol will let you seethe temps of the cpu and gpu and adjust the fans to keep the temps under about 52c.
Was DYP wrote - "whether it is bad fonts that shipped with SL or there is a bug that will not tolerate things like bad or certain kinds of, or duplicate fonts I do not know but in most cases removing all no OS essential fonts has stopped the Open and Save crashing."
Begging your indulgence, but could you either explain further the way to remove all not OS essential fonts, or point to a thread that instructs such..
Thanks in advance!
I had Menlo disabled when I was operating on the RAID array. In the heat of the chase, I forgot to disable it when moving to a single drive. Once I did, PS CS3 was more stable on the single drive than the software RAID array. I did have one crash when opening a file using a file plug-in one time but that has been it. The same plug-in worked every other time. So there is clearly some interaction between software RAID and SL that is somewhat mitigated by using a single drive.
@Photo_op8: Menlo is reported by Adobe to cause crashes. See tech note cpsid_51220. Go to Font Book and disable or remove the Menlo font by right clicking or control-clicking on it. I disabled it. While you are there, remove any duplicate fonts as well. This generally comes from installing Microsoft Office 2008. I'm sure more experienced font manipulators can provide more detail but this seemed to work for me.
Hmmm. I just right clicked, selected disable, said ok to the warning
and assumed it was disabled. However, upon disabling another font, I
saw "off" appear next to the name. So apparently Menlo wasn't
disabled! I then exported Menlo to a folder and tried removing it.
It didn't remove. If you right click on the font and select Validate
font, you can remove it permanently from the font library using the
Remove Checked button. Again, I exported it first in case Apple gets
things straightened out.