26 Replies Latest reply on Oct 8, 2009 10:16 AM by the_wine_snob

    CS4 - getting rid of it!

    dwarrenk Level 1

      After getting assurances from Adobe that CS4 would work along side of CS3, I installed CS4. Wrong decision. Premier CS4 slowed my computer down to a crawl, every mouse click takes 4-5 seconds to work, (only CS4 is slow, all other programs are normal) so, it's back to uninstalling CS4 and back to CS3, that is until I get the cash to move to Final Cut Pro and a Mac. I would advise anyone out there that makes a living or intends to make a living producing videos go the Mac route. I have been in the video production business since 1975. I started with Adobe 4.2 and have upgraded every time... and every time I had problems. Windows is probably as much as fault as Adobe. Friendly competitors who run a Mac edit system tell me that they have very few problems and crashes. In my shop, I have about 10-12 PC's, so a switch to Apple will not be cheap, but like I said, this is my job. I spend as much time trying to keep the edit system running as I do editing. Adobe tech support... forget it... you spend 45 minutes on hold, only to be transferred to another hold cue. I write this only to advise anyone considering an edit system to take the Apple approach and spend your time actually producing, not system repairs. ( & get this, I had so much problems editing my last project, I ordered another custom built PC ((Intel quad core)) to use as a spare second edit system, due in any day now, because I can not depend on my main edit system to work from day to day. (existing edit system - ASUS L1N64-SLI, dual processors, AMD Athlon 64FX quad core 2.8 GHz, 4 Gb ram, Vista 32 bit).

        • 1. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
          tclark513 Level 3

          Sorry to hear about your troubles but your quote "until I get the cash to move to Final Cut Pro and a Mac. I would advise anyone out there that makes a living or intends to make a living producing videos go the Mac route."

           

          I would say is pretty bad advise!  I use both for work and would never go that route personally.

          I have way more trouble on the Mac side.

           

          • 2. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
            SpareWheel Level 2

            (existing edit system - ASUS L1N64-SLI, dual processors, AMD Athlon 64FX quad core 2.8 GHz, 4 Gb ram, Vista 32 bit).

             

            I would say you have system issues: move to 64 bit Vista and get yourself more RAM to start with. Sounds like you're bottlenecked.

             

             

            • 3. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              No surprise with AMD's.

              • 4. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                dwarrenk Level 1

                I should add that I used CS3 for the last 2 years. I bought CS4 when it came out but just installed it last week...that's when the new trouble started. I am now having to re-install CS4 (Premere only) becuase CS3 Premier will now not open any project I worked on the the last month...it's a never ending battle.

                • 5. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                  Eric Addison User Group Manager

                  I would agree that you should move to Vista64 and add some RAM.

                   

                  I have CS4 running great on 2 systems - one not quite as powerful as yours, but with Vista32 and 2GB of RAM and it handles DV without problems and some HD rather well. Why do you need to run CS3 on the system - I'm not sure that's what's causing the problem, but just curious...

                   

                  Also, what type of projects are you editing - SD or HD? If HD, you really need to got to Vista64 and increase RAM - trust me, you should see a huge difference in performance.

                  • 6. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                    dwarrenk Level 1

                    I am trying to edit DV (DVCAM). I bought a "Multibridge Pro" unit last year, to start editing HD. It never worked... I have a RMA to return it for a replacement.

                    I just ordered from Tiger Direct 4 each 2 Gb sticks which will give me 8 Gb total memory (The motherboard only has 4 memory slots, now containing 4 each 1 Gb sticks, if I wanted 16Gb, the 4 sticks of 4 Gb each was 3x the price)

                    • 7. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                      Eric Addison User Group Manager

                      dwarrenk wrote:

                      I just ordered from Tiger Direct 4 each 2 Gb sticks which will give me 8 Gb total memory (The motherboard only has 4 memory slots, now containing 4 each 1 Gb sticks, if I wanted 16Gb, the 4 sticks of 4 Gb each was 3x the price)

                       

                      Remember that in order to take advantage of more then 4GB of RAM you need a 64 bit OS.

                      • 8. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                        SpareWheel Level 2

                        dwarrenk wrote:

                         

                        I should add that I used CS3 for the last 2 years. I bought CS4 when it came out but just installed it last week...that's when the new trouble started. I am now having to re-install CS4 (Premere only) becuase CS3 Premier will now not open any project I worked on the the last month...it's a never ending battle.

                         

                        Have you also made sure you have updated to version 4.1 ?

                         

                        In addition to all this I found when I first started I was having issues with response - it would come and go - quite frustrating. It looked like CS4 was stalling for seconds at a time. The air was blue with reference to CS4... etc. I then got rid of my Infra Red mouse and replaced it with a USB type. It was something as simple as my infra mouse causing MY problem. Now I am not saying this is the issue you have, but to demonstrate to you that what you might think is a CS4 issue could be something quite basic in your system infrastructure.

                         

                        So before you scrap CS4 look closely at your system. Install Vista 64 bit, increase your RAM, and make sure your HDD setup follows the recommendations - there are plenty of references about that here in the forum. AND make sure you have updated to version 4.1

                         

                        Claire

                        • 9. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                          hbernhard Level 1

                          After working on a project with 250 AVCHD files with Vista32, CS4-PrePro and Redgiant MB; experiencing more than 20 Pro crashes (which were sent to Adobe of course..); gaining some weight (as the reload of Pro and the 250 files took ages) and saving after every microstep ---> CS4 ProPro eats to much of the memory, has a bad memory management (e.g. after restart the crashed renders are working till the next memory bug with/without MB appears...) and can only be stabilized/partly bypassed in a 64 bit environment.

                           

                          As nearly every motherboard can handle this days 8 GB memory this should give you some headroom (e.g. in my above decribed context I was unable to run PrePro and Encore in parallel...)  and with future enhancements of PrePro you need only a faster graphic card to overcome most of your described obstacles.

                           

                          I also work with Premiere since 6.0 and if in doubt --> download an alternative product in testmode, till now nothing has convinced me

                           

                          HB

                           

                          SW Vista Ultimate 32 bit, Cubase SX 5.0.1, Wavelab 6.1, Triton Le, Adobe CS4 Master Collection, Izotope Ozone 4, Native Instruments Komplete 5, VSL Vienna Suite 3.1, Melodyne, HW Intel D975XBX2, RME HDSP9632, Quad Q6600, 3 GB memory, Marvell 61xx 1 TB Raid 0 storage, ATI Radeon HD4670 silent, ext equipment MX200+166XL, Yamaha N12digital mixing studio, Pioneer DJ setup

                          • 10. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            I would advise anyone out there that makes a living or intends to make a living producing videos go the Mac route.

                             

                            It would be naive to believe the press hype about Mac's "just working".  They have just as many issues as PCs do.  You just don't hear about them as much because there are so few Mac users by comparison.

                             

                            I myself just upgraded to a new Core i7 920 and, running the CS4 suite on Windows 7 64 bit RC, my productivity is through the roof.  I can now do in two days what used to take me a week.

                            • 11. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                              ImSidney

                              I don't know man, I've got several computers running CS4, some are faster than what you've got there, but one, an AMD laptop, runs Premiere CS4 just fine.  It's only got 32 bit Vista with 4 gigs of RAM as well.  No slowdowns, no glitches... And, it has a ****** GFX card. Have you tried streamlining your Vista?  My Vista looks like I'm running Windows 2000.  I've removed all the effects and fancy sh!t, as well as eliminating all of the processes I don't absolutely need.  That has been a major help with a LOT of software.  And, of course eliminating hardware conflicts as well.

                              • 12. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                dwarrenk Level 1

                                The latest... here it is 1:24 AM.. I have a production to finish and premiere won't work.....

                                I downloaded a new font yesterday (at the request of an ad agency)

                                I was editing using CS3 premiere, after the font download, opening the titler crashed premiere

                                I unistalled the font, the titler still crashed premiere

                                I uninstalled CS3 creative suite, ran CS3 cleaner 4 times...

                                reinstalled CS3... still crashed....

                                OK, I have to get this production out... so what now...

                                I restored the system back to 9/15/09 when it was working....

                                bad idea, CS3 premiere would not even try and load...

                                next step....

                                I wiped the system drive clean, re-installed Vista, but this time I went with 64 bit vista..

                                Got all the windows updates.... then Installed CS3... by now it's around 11:00 PM

                                CS 3 would not activate, nor would it let me use the trial 30 day version..... (too many activations.. what... this is the same computer)

                                I called Adobe tech support 6 times... it would say... we're transferring you to a CS representative... then I would get a FAST BUSY signal... I called back 6 times, went through all the enter serial number and activation number and all 6 times I was disconnected.

                                So what to do now....

                                I have CS4 also, so I started installing that....would not even get through disc 1 before it would say "set up has encountered an error and cannot continue" ... so now I can't finish the production.. thanks Adobe!

                                 

                                & people wonder why I want to get a Mac & final cut pro...

                                 

                                this is what I do for a living...It's not a hobby... I have NEVER been able to depend on Premiere continue to work without constant problems... The security system adobe puts in place for activation keeps the people like me that have legitimate software from even re-installing it ON THE SAME COMPUTER..

                                Like I said before, I have had Premiere versions 5.0, 5.1, 6.0, 6.1, Pro 1, Pro 1.5, Pro 2 (I have 2 complete suites of Pro 2), CS3 and now CS4. I wish I had made the jump when Final Cut pro first came out.

                                About a month ago, I ordered a new quad core Intel based computer just to have a spare edit system because of situations just like the one I'm in now.

                                 

                                One of my largest clients told me that they were tired of premiere not working (they shoot, capture and bring me the hard drive to edit). They said they were going the Mac route, so to keep them as a client, I guess I'll be switching over sooner than later...

                                • 13. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  If one would rather address issues, by purchasing another platform and an NLE, than look to where the real problems are, that is their choice. That's called the "Free Market System."

                                   

                                  Good luck with your decision.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Now, if you want to get started on that font issue, and find out what the problem with it is, this ARTICLE might be of help to you.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                      Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                      Sorry you're having so much trouble. I know that CS3 did have some sort of issues with fonts, where if you had a corrupt font, it would crash when using the titler. When I first installed it, I loaded up all the fonts I'd collected over the years, and then when I was in the titler, trying to scroll through the fonts - it crashed. I've not seen this problem in CS4.

                                       

                                      As someone who runs CS4 on a daily basis, I've not had any real big problems. It runs great for me. My advice to you is to do a clean install of Vista64, followed by just installing CS4....nothing else. See if that works. It could be something in your system that's causing the problem.

                                       

                                      As for the activation issue, when you uninstalled CS3, did you deactivate it? If not, then that may explain why you're seeing that error.

                                       

                                      If I lived closer to you (I'm in San Diego), I'd be happy to help you out with one of my systems...I hope you get it figured out!

                                      • 16. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                                        I know that CS3 did have some sort of issues with fonts, where if you had a corrupt font, it would crash when using the titler.

                                         

                                        Yes, Titler is so very sensitive to font issues. Some fonts, that are not corrupt, can bring it to its knees. Having just one corrupt font installed on the system can do the same. Fonts, that have not effect in InDesign, PS, AI or many other programs will crash Titler. It's the same for all versions of PrPro and also PrElements. I strongly recommend that one use a font diagnosis and repair tool, along the lines of FontDoctor (Extensis), or the freeware FontFrenzy.

                                         

                                        Personally, I also use Suitcase (Extensis) to manage my fonts. I group them by Project, or by client, or by their style and use. Though I have ~12000 sitting on my workstation, I seldom have more than about 200-300 installed at any one time. When I get a new font, the first thing that I do is run it through FontDoctor, just to make sure that I do not have a corrupt file.

                                         

                                        As stated in the linked article above, and alluded to here, there are some fonts that just flat will not work with Titler, and will kill it. Jeff Bellune found one of these installed by SunMicrosystems' Open Office - Deja Vu. There are more like that. They are not corrupt, but the foundry that designed and distributed these just did not do it correctly.

                                         

                                        Years ago, it used to be that almost any Corel font would mess up things, when the Quark, or PageMaker files got to the pre-press house. Designers quickly learned to not use those early Corel fonts. They just flat did not work. Do not know how things have changed over the last decade, but I still avoid Corel fonts, because of years of grief with them.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                          Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                          Our office is about evenly divided. We are running both PCs and Macs, Premiere CS4 and Final Cut. The Mac guys claim they have no trouble on their computers, but I'm aware of many problems they have. Recently one of the Macs was suffering from some kind of wierd video file corruption issue where Final Cut would not import a file. A Mac gugu friend solved the issue after many hours of troubleshooting and updating the OS.

                                           

                                          Oh how I would hate to become a Mac Guru. I do like Macs OK, I'm just nowhere near becoming a zealot.

                                           

                                          As Jim said, Windows 7 is great. If you build a new system (64 bit Windows 7 operating system) using quality components including a good power supply such as one from PC Power and Cooling or Corsair, use a good motherboard such as one in the Asus "WS" category or Gigabyte Ultra Durable, drop in an i7 processor with a load of RAM (6gb+), you will have a fast and reliable system for much less than you would pay for a Mac.

                                           

                                          Adobe recognizes CS4 has issues and will be releasing 4.2 soon.

                                           

                                          Forget about AMD processors for now anyway and go with Intel.

                                          • 18. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                            The Mac guys claim they have no trouble on their computers, but I'm aware of many problems they have.

                                             

                                            Ah, so the marketing hype is finally belied by an honest observer.  Well done.

                                            • 19. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              Yes, even with the writings of Authur C. Clark, the concept of the HAL 9000 has never been realized, on either the Mac, or the PC side of the street.

                                               

                                              They are computers, after all, and are prone to messing up. Add the human interface and they are doomed to do so with more regularity, regardless of whether they have cute little apples on them, or maybe a "Dell." Gonna' happen.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                Hey there.

                                                 

                                                I see that others have jumped on this thread but I thought to send you a note with some encouragement and possible advise.

                                                 

                                                First, what a lot of the other posters mentioned here is definitely true.  CS4 loves 64bits and memory.  Premiere Pro CS4 is '64 bit aware' which allows you to use up to 4GB of memory per processor core.  I think you have 4 cores(?) so you could theoretically see as much as 16GB on your system and be able to use it.  You will see some big performance gains on most systems when used with Vista 64.

                                                 

                                                A couple of blog articles I've done on this topic...

                                                http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/03/64_bit_os_and_adobe_products.html

                                                http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/03/64_bit_the_best_300_or_less_yo.html

                                                 

                                                Second, I have no problems with AMD processors as a general rule.  I have a 9400 with 8 cores and I recently got one with 12 cores.  In both cases, these systems have worked terrific for me.  In addition, there is an AMD encoder for Premiere that is wicked fast - after you get your issues worked out, you might check this out to see if it's compatible for you.  http://forums.amd.com/amdlive/messageview.cfm?catid=366&threadid=114667&enterthread=y

                                                 

                                                Next, if you're staying with Blackmagic, then you should know that the upcoming Premiere Pro CS4.2 includes some specific things to help hardware companies provide better drivers.  The latest BMD drivers I've used (7.2 though there is a 7.3) worked pretty well for me in a Vista 64 based system.

                                                 

                                                As for choosing FCP over Premiere Pro, I can sense your frustration and of course that is your choice.  As you will hear me say in any public forum, there are good reasons to choose one NLE over another.  Even MovieMaker has got to have a cool feature that we don't!   However, I would say that you work with us here and try to get your system to a stable place and then make your final decision.

                                                 

                                                Now for some generic suggestions that may have been covered already.

                                                1. Trash your preferences
                                                2. Clean your media cache in Premiere Pro.
                                                3. Uninstall any unnecessary software
                                                4. scan for viruses
                                                5. update your graphics card drivers
                                                6. move to 64bit and 8gb of RAM
                                                7. update your bios

                                                 

                                                Perhaps what I would like to see done the most is to start with a clean slate.  Back up your files, format your drive, install Vista 64, run all of the updates, Install Adobe suite, run all of the updates and then see what that gets us.

                                                 

                                                In my 15+ years of experience, I see a lot of problems where people are trying to fix a problem by working around the root cause which is a complete 'do-over' of your system.  Yeah, that stinks but it's true.

                                                 

                                                And, less you think that this is doesn't happen to Macs, think again. My main laptop is a mac (I'm typing on it now) and I've had to start over with it twice in less than a year.  It's had a bad motherboard too and I'm now about to swap out the hard drive and start over again - this time with Snow Leopard.

                                                 

                                                So, in conclusion - we want to help and I hope that you'll give Adobe a fair chance along with this community to repair the lost trust you have with Premiere Pro right now.

                                                 

                                                Sincerely,

                                                Dennis Radeke

                                                http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/

                                                http://tv.adobe.com/show/adobe-beginner-classes-with-dennis-radeke

                                                • 21. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                  DW - bump

                                                  • 22. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                    Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                                    One of our systems falls into the"budget" category. earlier this year, I drove our equipment to New Orleans for a staging event we produced there. One of the machines suffered damage to its power supply, probably while jarring over the lake Pontchartrain bridge that had been patched in various places. When we got back we discovered the system wouldn't start unless we fiddled with the power supply's rocker switch. It was a good power supply, An Antec "Neo" with the removable cables. Anyway, yesterday, the computer would not start at all. So I drove to the Office Max, 5 minutes away, bought a new power supply ($49) and had the computer back up and running in about 45 minutes. Of course I stressed to one of the Mac guys in the office that a big advantage to the PC is ease of repair and the availability of inexpensive replacement parts. Although I really do like Macs, I get tired of the hype and love to get my digs in, whenever possible. A Mac zealot would have responded; "Macs don't need repair". I know better.

                                                     

                                                    Over-Lake-Pontchartrain-3.jpg

                                                    • 23. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                      fuaho Level 1

                                                      Dennis,

                                                       

                                                      While it's easy to list the steps one should take, not all of us are drilled down to the level you are.

                                                       

                                                      Since these first two items on your list appear on a regular basis, how about a "sticky" with specific instructions as to where to find the Preferences and Media Cache you are referring to, and how to "trash" and "clean" them.

                                                       

                                                      There also appears to be some ongoing issue with people removing CS3/CS4 and not deactivating or something, so that procedure should also be in a "sticky" with a warning or notification of what happens when it is not followed.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      • 24. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                        One of the machines suffered damage to its power supply, probably while jarring over the lake Pontchartrain bridge that had been patched in various places.

                                                         

                                                        Charles,

                                                         

                                                        My guess is that you took I-10, or I-55 out of NOLA, and did not go back across the Causeway. Had you done that, then you would likely have "jarred" things back into place!

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Glad that you found the part easily and got the rig up and running. There is something to be said for easily found replacement parts. When I lived in NOLA, I had to carry a boot full of replacement parts for my XKE, as there were no Jag dealers outside of downtown NOLA - not one in the rest of the state, and none in Mississippi. I could not just stop in at a NAPA store and get most of that "stuff." Yes, something to be said for easily found replacement parts!

                                                         

                                                        Hope that the shoot in NOLA went well.

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                          dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                          Not a bad idea, but I'm not sure how to accomplish it.  Perhaps you can point me to where I need to look to create a sticky post?

                                                           

                                                          Dennis

                                                          • 26. Re: CS4 - getting rid of it!
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            Dennis,

                                                             

                                                            One would need the MOD console to do that. I've never seen it, so do not know how easy, or how difficult it is to implement. Jeff, or Curt can do it, so maybe a PM to one, or the other, can get it handled.

                                                             

                                                            While you are at it, one nice feature of the PrE forum is the Tips & Tricks sub-forum. It's like a FAQ, but is a repository for longer articles on how to do certain things. At least PrPro has the PrPro-Wiki, which works the same way with its tutorials section. Maybe that is enough? When I find myself typing the same material over and over, I will do an article in the PrE Tips & Tricks, and try to tailor it for both PrE and PrPro, so I can then just link to that/those article(s). I find it much easier to use that smaller sub-forum, than to try to Search the main fora for articles that are dynamically moved down, with other posts. To date, it has worked well for me.

                                                             

                                                            Good luck, and thanks,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt