9 Replies Latest reply on Sep 25, 2009 4:32 PM by the_wine_snob

    Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps

    jbcooke

      In PE4, I am editing a 4-minute video with no original soundtrack. (It's from 8mm silent film.) When I captured the video in PE4, the progam created an audio track, but I deleted it before beginning editing. The audio track for this video is a single song, imported as a WAV file and put into Audio 3, above the highest video track. (Video 2 has titles and effects in it; the main video file is in Video 1.)

       

      I had no problems editing the main video before I imported the music track. As soon as I imported the music track, I could no longer trim or delete video clips without creating blank gaps which can't be removed: "Delete and close gap" doesn't work. Neither does selecting the gap and clicking "Backspace" or "delete" which the program Help says should work. What's worse, when I insert a video clip into the edited picture, this action creates a gap in the music track!

       

      The only way these gaps -- in the main video or music track -- can be closed is to click on the following clips or track and move them physically. With the video track split into dozens of clips, this is so time-consuming as to be impractical, to say nothing of being exceedingly frustrating.

       

      If I delete the music track, the problem goes away and I can trim or delete video clips normally. When I bring the track back into Audio 3, the problems return.

       

      I've had this problem before. Last spring, a forum member suggested that importing audio into the Soundtrack or Narration track was known to cause "Delete and close gap" to stop working. In the present project, I've kept the Soundtrack and Narration tracks empty for this reason. I followed the program guidelines and put the audio in Audio 3 above the highest video track.

       

      Being unable to make final video cuts and trims to match the picture to the audio track makes it impossible to consider editing longer video projects in this program, unless someone can tell me once and for all how to correct the problem.

       

      jbcooke

        • 1. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          If you've got audio or video on a parallel track, you can't use Delete and Close Gap because, technically, there is not gap.

           

          The best solution I've found is to temporarily trim back the music track far enough to allow Delete and Close Gap -- then, once my clips are moved, untrim the music again.

          • 2. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
            jbcooke Level 1

            Steve G wrote:

            >If you've got audio or video on a parallel track, you can't use Delete and Close Gap because, technically, there is not [a] gap.

             

            Right. This is the problem: even though the video in Video 1 and the audio in Audio 3 are not linked, PE4 is behaving as if they are linked. If I import a video clip and insert it, this creates a gap in the Audio 3 track. If I try to trim or delete an existing scene in Video 1, this creates an unremovable gap in the video, as if the program is saying "No, you can't close up the video because there's no matching gap in the track."

             

            To be able to make fine-tuning trims in the video to match the audio, I need the program to behave as if the video and audio are *not* linked. I need to be able to trim video clips with the audio track in place, but Steve is saying there's really no way to do that:

             

            > The best solution I've found is to temporarily trim back the music track far enough to allow Delete and Close Gap -- then, once my clips are moved, untrim the music again.

             

            This is essentially what I've been doing, by removing the audio track altogether, temporarily. If by "trim back the music track" he means shift it to the right so it's no longer parallel to the video section I'm working on, that can work for this short (4 min) project, but it would be impractical for some much longer projects I've got coming up.

             

            Is there really no way to force PE4 (or a later edition) to behave as if Video 1 and Audio 3 are truly unlinked, independent entities?

             

            jbcooke

            • 3. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              None that I'm aware of, jb. Sorry.

              • 4. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                In the majority of workflows, the Audio is the last part of the process. In your case, you are looking to edit TO the music. If the music is edited as you will use it, and that is what you have Imported into the Project Panel, I'd do the rough-cut of the Video to that music, then just delete the music from the Timeline, while I did the final trimming, removal of gaps, etc.. When done, I'd just drag the music back to Audio Track 2 (or wherever), for the final output.

                 

                I often use this workflow, when I have to time to the music Track, though normally am editing to the visuals, so the music is just added as my last step.

                 

                Note: if you have also edited the music, then Export that completed Track (Audio-only), delete from the Timeline, trim, etc., and then bring that Exported music file back to the Timeline. If there are still "points" from the music that you need, just use Unnumbered Markers for those points. Delete them, once your edit is complete, prior to an final Export/Share.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                  jbcooke Level 1

                  My reply text to the Wine Snob was:

                   

                  Thanks. That's very helpful. This will certainly be the situation in my
                  longer projects, upcoming, where I'll have more than one audio source
                  and will be editing as I go.

                   

                  Message was edited by: jbcooke

                  • 6. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                    jbcooke Level 1

                    Okay, as everyone is in agreement that the problem I described can and will happen when music is present on a parellel track, my question has been answered.

                     

                    However, I do feel pretty strongly that the inability to make final trims and adjustments in the picture to the music/audio tracks without having to remove or export the audio track(s) while working on the video is a weakness in PE. To Adobe and the PE designers, I would say this: from my experience with PE4, I would be fully satisfied with the capabilities of this program if there were an option that enabled me to cut, add, or trim video clips in the presence of parallel audio tracks without creating the problems I described in my original post. I want to say, in effect, "Don't assume there is any fixed relationship between the video and the audio. Just let me edit the video as I want." As it is, because this isn't possible, it may prove enough of a problem to make me take up one of the offers I've had from friends who are willing to teach me Final Cut Pro. This goes against my inclinations, because I'm in favor of using the least complicated technology that's adequate for the project at hand.

                     

                    jbcooke

                    • 7. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      JB,

                       

                      You might want to file a Feature Request, as there is no Adobe presence here. We are just users, such as yourself.

                       

                      I would anticipate that this would be a fairly easy request to implement, though I am not a programer. I could see a switch to totally separate the Video from the Audio, allowing one to manipulate one, with no regard to the other.

                       

                      Now, I have to ask, does FCP allow for this? Does FCP also have a Delete Gaps function?

                       

                      From a workflow aspect, I would just re-edit each Video Clip, to my satisfaction, slide it to the left until flush with the preceeding Clip, and then repeat with each Clip. As one is editing each Clip, it is but a tiny drag to the left, to eliminate the gaps.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                        jbcooke Level 1

                        Thanks for the link, Hunt. I did submit a feature request as you suggested.

                         

                        You asked:

                        > does FCP [Final Cut Pro] allow for this [adding, deleting, trimming video without creating gaps or affecting parallel audio tracks]? Does FCP also have a Delete Gaps function?

                         

                        I'll let you know when (if) I bite the bullet and resign myself to struggling up the FCP learning curve. But I have watched experienced FCP editors at work, with both video and audio tracks in place, and saw no gaps formed in the video track by substituting, adding, deleting or trimming video clips.

                         

                        Your suggestion to work on one video clip at a time, then slide it to the left when done with it, can be a solution to dealing with these annoying gaps IF (it's a big if) there is no need ever to go far back in the video to make an improvement or adjustment to an earlier clip. In that case,sliding all the following clips to the left one at a time would be pretty tedious . . . (please wait, brain working . . .) BUT . . . . I wonder if this could work: if a video edit created a gap that won't respond to "delete and close up gap," and if deleting or exporting the audio track(s) was undesirable or too complcated, would it be possible, in the Timeline, to select all subsequent video clips to the right of the gap, click Edit > Cut, position the current-time indicator _ahead_ of (to the left of ) the gap, then click Edit > Paste Insert. . . . Next time this comes up, I'll give it a try.

                         

                        Thanks Hunt and Steve G for the help.

                         

                        jbcooke

                        • 9. Re: Trim, delete, clip creates unremovable gaps
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          I wonder if this could work: if a video edit created a gap that won't respond to "delete and close up gap," and if deleting or exporting the audio track(s) was undesirable or too complcated, would it be possible, in the Timeline, to select all subsequent video clips to the right of the gap, click Edit > Cut, position the current-time indicator _ahead_ of (to the left of ) the gap, then click Edit > Paste Insert. .

                           

                          What you can do, and I think you will like this one better, is Select all Clips to the right (you can Lasso them), and just drag to the left. If Snap is on, they'll butt right up to the Tail of the last Clip to the left.

                           

                          As for having to go back in and extend a previously edited Clip, by default, just grab the Tail of the Clip, whose Duration you wish to increase and drag it to the right. All following Clips will Ripple down the line. Note: in PrPro, you need to hold down Ctrl to get this to work the same way. It is just the opposite of how PrE works.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt