Please run my Premiere Pro benchmark (PPBM) and email me the results. Massive amounts of tuning are necessary to get store bought computers ready for effectivly running video eding suites.
I suspect that this might be a "factory" configured computer that has a zillion unnecessary processes running sucking up your resources. Use Harm's suggestions "...you start with downloading the SysInternals suite from http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/default.aspx and extract Process Explorer to C:\Windows and run this program. Make a screenshot of all processes running and post that. Next, go to Start and type in DXDIAG, run the 64 bit version for Vista 64 and then run all the tests and save the results as DXDIAG.TXT and post those results.
I just was handed a 23 minute HDV video with nothing to do to it except put a title on it and encode to MPEG2-DVD it took AME 10 minutes and 20 seconds to encode on my dual Xeon E5410's with the standard defaults for a rush job.
Just for reference I took the same type of video as the 23 minute one above but only 18 minutes this time and turned up all the available quality adjustments that I could find in the "Export Settings" window and last night it took 3 hours and 12 minutes to encode to MPEG2-DVD.
I dont know how to post here exept this way so sorry for butting in.
I just spent a fortune on the latest high speed computer for speeding up video processing and upgraded to CS4 from CS3.
Now ALL my videos take exactly FOUR TIMES LONGER to render, and to output to Mpg2.
A see no answer to this on these forums. The problem cannot be with computer specs, but must be with CS4.
I have ran tests with exactly the same files on both computers, many many times.
Not only that but bridge is also exceptionally slow also and wont even display some large photos full screen.
Quite frankly I think CS4 is a lemon.
(I am a videographer, not a computer expert)
(I am a videographer, not a computer expert)
Welcome on board the forum. Unfortunately with programs as complex as Premiere (and each upgraded version this is even more true) you have to develop some computer expert skills in the process and this forum will help you if you have some patience and are able to read between the lines.
First of all we need to know details about your system and more than likely what format you are starting with.
Here is what I am guessing from the only fact that I getting from you post is that you are encoding to MPEG. MPEG encoding is extremely CPU intensive. Now if you bought your computer off the shelf they generally load a whole bunch of garbage freeware or demo-ware which is using resouces (CPU and Memory) which you should eliminate.
Second if you have not tuned your OS (I am here assuming Win 7 and hoping that it is a 64-bit version) than you might have over 70 Microsoft processes also using resuoces. Post a picture here of your Processes tab of Task Manager like this one from one of my editing systems that is fairly well tuned.
No I Had it built. My comp man admits he doesnt know anything about video. It is running windows 7 and all time wasting animations and transparancies are turned off. (This helped a little, with emphasis on the LITTLE). As for processes I have no idea which ones I can safely turn off. Dont know what any of it means. No freeware or unwanted programmes were loaded that I am aware of.
I am running High Definition cameras in 1080i format (converting to P) These files are for exclusive use of Miss World Pageant staff and contestants which they view on their computers. The DVDs are of course made in SD palwide format and do render quicker, but not as fast as CS3 and not as fast as my old 'slow' computer.
Thanks, will do that. However the old computer with less than half the specs running CS2 on XP
still renders and exports Mpg2 faster than the new one. I am pressed for time so I am using it
instead of CS4. (Still making better time in spite of the occassional crash) thanks for your interest and help.
Will get on with the test as soon as I have output my work.
Premiere CS4 and now even more in CS5 requires a well tuned OS and the it runs smooth as silk! This is very complex software to be able to do all these functions and you cannot just throw it together without horsepower and tuning. I am going to pull a Harm here--think of it as beautiful Jaguar automobile. If you are not into tuning you will get left by the side of the road.
I get the distinct impression that CS4 (and probably more so with CS5) is extremely limited on what combinations of hardware, chipset, graphics chipset, drivers it will work smoothly with. It isn't the power of the computer alone, nor is it how stripped down your OS is (mine is stripped down to 18 processes at boot time), it isn't how many RAID 0 arrays you have mapped separately to audio, video, cache files, temp files and rendered output files.
It must be an almost mystical, magical combination of hardware that gets it to run right.
I do know one thing: even with CS3, and beginning with CS3, you have to do a clean boot, or almost NONE of the CS3 applications will initialize properly. Run any other program before running a CS3 application and chances are, that application won't load or update the screen once loaded. Illustrator, Photoshop, Premiere, even Acrobat Distiller, won't work properly unless Windows has been rebooted first.
I don't think what Premiere does is all that complex, say, compared with Alias Maya. If you are familiar with 3D animation, then you know that a program like Maya is 1200 times more complex than Premiere. Yet it's enire program folder is only 433 megabytes. Adobe? We're talking gigabytes. Even Sony Vegas is smaller, lighter, less resource hogging, etc.
I like the interface/UI in Adobe, which is why I stick with it, but I doubt I'll ever move past CS3, which keeps me from editing AVCHD footage.
Adobe applications are the only ones that require me to drop everything else that I am doing, shut down and reboot the computer, just to be able to launch one of them. Something tells me that shouldn't be the case.
Mark I am sorry that you feel that way, but I get the distinct impression from the 130+ people that have submitted their results to me for publication with all sorts of different hardware/software combinations and permutations that a vast majority are perfectly happy with CS4 and some now even more happy with CS5. Many of these results I have been able to give constructive feedback to even improve beyond the initial results.
I do find it very impressive that you have been able to get down to 18 processes after start up, you do know well what you are doing in that regard! I must say that I never have found it necessary to follow your reboot workflow, and I do know that I have been amazed at all the programs that Harm has told me he has open while he is producing fantastic benchmark results.
Bill, I spent a long month in 2008, trying to get CS4 to run better than intermittently on a quad core machine with only 4GB of RAM installed, under Windows XP. It just wasn't happening, no matter what advice tech support gave me, despite hours of rebuilds, reinstallations, shutting off unneeded services, etc.
And even CS3 is absolutely piggish with demands on system resources. Yes, over half the CS3 programs won't run unless I reboot first:
Acrobat Distiller will selectively 'drop' text from a PDF document when distilling any kind of document to PDF,
Illustrator will not update the client area of the screen at all. You can draw, but the welcome screen is still smack dab in the middle and there's no paper sheet outline visible.
Photoshop won't finish loading its palettes and the menus at the top are all empty.
...just to name the most annoying ones.
Despite all that, I use QuarkXpress 8 with never a problem.
Autodesk Maya 2008, no problems,
Cakewalk Sonar Producer 7, no problems
SoundForge 9, no problems
Scenarist, no problems
Microsoft Office, no problems.
Adobe is the ONLY software that won't run UNTIL I reboot my machine. Maybe it's different for you guys running 64-bit Windows 7, but on XP 32 bit, it's not happening.
On Premiere, I get one, maybe two h.264 renders, before the software crashes with "unknown error" and then it's time to reboot again. In all the other software mentioned above, I can work for days on end without a single complaint or low memory error.
If I could bear to stand Sony Vegas' UI, I would jump to there in a heartbeat, but I've got too many years on Premiere and anything else feels "alien" to me.
Significant to me is the fact that my old computer running windows xp
(And whatever computer power it has, I am assured my new one
is 300 times more powerful) and running premiere CS3
copes better with everything. I often have bridge, photoshop and premiere
running similtaineously with only the occassional hick-up.
New (mighty power computer) and CS4 basically gives me nothing but grief.
Slow rendering, and plenty of crashing, running premiere alone mostly.
I havnt sent Bill my test yet, party because I think I will lack the knowledge to make any neccessary changes, and may stuff up and not be able to work at all.
Some how I still think the Abobe CS4 suite is a lemon compared to CS3
Since my first post I have taken my computer to the '
experts.' It now has CS5 and is truly
a peice of totally useless crap!
It now takes nearly an hour to render 5 mins of HD video.
The exact same clip and the exact same editing and inserts on CS3 running on
XP took less than 10 minutes on an old very slow computer!
I know you offered to provide 'Tuning Tips' if I run a test on my system. Two reasons I havent.
1) Lack of confidence to be able to do it, and to be able to make the adjustments.
2) (Mainly this) I dont really believe it will make a significant difference.
There is no way in the world I have the time or the inclination to muck about with a program
that cannot perform. I dont know what Adobe is thinking, but somewhere they have taken a wrong turn.
For two months I have been behind schedule trying to sort all this out without the slightest success.
I hasten to point out that my old computer has NO JAQUAR Fine tuning. Its old and slow, and still does a better job.
I am now looking for another editing program, and will be delighted the day I dump CS5 off the harddrive.
I rather think that it is you that has taken the wrong turn. 99% of the people that have CS5 are delighted with it and its fantastic improvements with (I am guessing now) many more performance enhancements to come as they fine tune CUDA/MPE. It is a complex program but to take a hour to render 5 minutes of video is unheard of, and I guess your "experts" really do not know what they are doing as you have already admitted.
I do not of course know what you are encoding to or the presets, but as an example our new PPBM5 benchmark (still in beta testing, almost ready) with 156 seconds of DV, HDV, AVCHD and XDCAM and four layers with lots of effects applied with a current entry level i7-920 or i7-930 processor without overclocking I would guess would take about 150 seconds to encode to MPEG2-DVD. With my about 3-4 year old Supermicro system it takes 315 seconds, the best time so far is 47 seconds (dual hex-core processors).
Interesting Indeed. One local computer genius looked at it for me and
suggested the conflict may be with windows 7. He is now suggesting putting
XP back on the system, just to run premier. But definately after he
'tweaked' it for me, the result was even slower HD rendering, and scrubbing
along the timeline is now impossible, it just cant keep up and premier 'is
not responding.' I need now to gather the courage to attempt your test.
Betting I will stuff it up.
Have you tried turning off indexing on each disk drive, stopping your antivirus from running and then check how your system responds with Premiere?
If that does not do it then go to your Task manager and end every process (especially those that the user name is Tony) that is in your list that is not in my list and then check again how your system responds with Premiere.
This ARTICLE might offer some tips. For Win7, be very sure to look down the thread and go to Black Viper's page, as he has some very useful tweaks for Win7.
As for rolling back the OS, remember that CS5 is 64-bit only, so if you are going to use it, you will be locked into a 64-bit OS, and XP-64 was never supported, and has given many major problems.
PS - I also agree with Bill G, regarding both Windows Indexing and any active AV programs. These eat resources and create bottlenecks at every turn.
I have just run your bechmark test. But I am unable to run the statsistics thingy because it will not accept my entering of the full path to
the files. They are in a folder called PPBM on my desktop and every attempt to direct the statistcs thing to this file has failed.
I dont know exactly what file it wants as there are now many files in this folder. As stated, I am a videographer, and a completed dunce on the computer.
I will try your other suggestions and see how I get on in the meantime. This is at least helping me to learn about computers, to some degree. I think my computer supplier may not be much smarter than me by the looks of it judging by his suggestion to run premier CS5 on XP. I've got a lot of money invested in it so I have to get it working. Not at all impressed with windows7 so far.
Yes. Did all that. Lost everything, clock, start menu etc. Still found just
playing the timeline slow and jerky, but not stopping this time. Did allow
scrubbing to small degree, previously just caused premiere to say "premier
not responding!' when attempting to scrub along the timeline. Even my oldest
slowest computer can do this very well. My tech guy said he 'heated the
system, to try to find faults and none became apparent. Its got me (and him)
beat. I only tried a small file, and it rendered to final output quite fast,
but scrubbing along the timeline is baffling in that it just wont do it.
(Cant keep up it seems.) Still cant access that file in the statistics vbs
It's becoming implicitly clear that CS4 is sensitive to the hardware environment. Only a very few "magic" combinations of hardware will work well enough to achieve productive work. Most others will experience the equivalent of an IRQ conflict, causing the system to halt for long periods.
The challenge is to find out whether you have to chuck you motherboard, graphics card, hard drives, or other peripherals and replace them with who-knows-what (or just buy a 'safe' Adobe-approved turnkey system) in order to use the application.
Ever since CS3 came out, I've been having difficulty with various Adobe apps:
Acrobat won't print all of the page unless I reboot and do my Acrobat printing before I do anything else,
Illustrator won't update the client area of the program window unless I reboot and do my Illustrator work first,
Photoshop won't load its menus and palletes unless I reboot and do all my Photoshop work first,
Same goes for InDesign.
The only apps that seem not so finicky are Fireworks and Flash.
Premiere and AfterEffects CS3 will still work, but don't expect any h.264 rendering unless you reboot the system first.
Seriously, Adobe Photoshop 7 ran great, as did older versions of Acrobat 7 and earlier. I can't print contract documents with whole paragraphs missing, but that's what happens on an 'aged' Windows XP session with Acrobat CS3.
If it wasn't for the terrific rendering quality of Adobe video editors, I'd be on to Vegas in a heartbeat, which runs lickety split like a DOS app. I can't understand why Adobe executes 42 million lines of code just to display one frame of video, or so it seems, given the clock speed, number of instructions my quad core can execute in a second, and the number of seconds it takes CS4 to do anything at all...
If you have the Adobe Suite,then use Adobe Dynamic Link to import your Premiere seuence into After Effects and make a comp, add some touch-up effects and render from AE.
From my experience, After effects renders 10x faster than premiere!
Currently doing a gameplay render, in Premiere it took 10 hrs in comparison to After Effects which only took about an hour for 20 minutes of HD footage
AMD FX 4170 4.2GHz
8GB RipJaws RAM