11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 28, 2009 10:24 AM by M.Jay.Victor

    Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background

    homeboy4 User Group Manager

      This is simplified for this discussion. Imagine a logo that's a yellow circle with a line of red type across the center of the circle slightly wider than it's diameter. Now apply a black drop shadow to the type. I did this in ID CS4 and brought it into Illy, converted it all to outlines and made a few tweaks. All is fine if the logo is on a white background, But if it's not, there is a white box around on the drop shadow where the type is wider that the circle.

       

      Is there such a thing as a vector drop shadow?

       

      In most instances, I will be using this in other ID programs so I might be able to bypass the Illy step and just copy the logo from one ID document to another. But the logo is also being sent out to others to use and their backgrounds might not be white.

       

      Suggestions?

        • 1. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
          M.Jay.Victor Level 2

          How are you taking it into Illustrator... and why are you designing a logo in ID instead of Illustrator to begin with?

           

          Lastly, no there is no such thing as a vector drop shadow per se...

           

          I would likely bring your logo into Illustrator, and make it work there, then supply either AI, or PDF (non flattened in this case) for others to use.

          • 2. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
            Jacob Bugge MVP & Adobe Community Professional

            homeboy,

             

            What you are bringing into Illy has a white filled area instead of being transparent.

             

            I agree: create the drop shadow and other effects in Illy.

            • 3. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
              homeboy4 User Group Manager

              Thanks. I got it. I deleted the shadow in ID and brought in into Illy as an EPS. (I had used an EPS before.) I did my tweaks, added the shadow there and made three versions: AI, PDF and EPS, then tried each out on a non-white BG in ID. THE AI and PDF worked. The EPS did not.

               

              As for why I do logos in ID. I'm Fred Astaire in ID but Newt Gingrich trying to rap in Illy.

              • 4. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                JETalmage Level 6

                There is nothing wrong with drawing spot graphics in InDesign. (Why do you think it has tools for doing so?)

                 

                I did this in ID CS4 and brought it into Illy

                 

                What does "brought it into" mean?

                 

                If you copied/pasted, check your InD clipboard prefs. Do you have the option for copying PDF content turned on?

                 

                The reason such things work from AI to InD is because InD is importing the PDF content embedded in the AI file (or copied to the clipboard). The same thing works in the opposite direction.

                 

                But going either direction, the conversion to PDF "normalizes" the objects that are created using app-specific features. So so-called "live effects" become simpler constructs. The kind of constructs PDF can handle differ with the various versions of PDF, too.

                 

                 

                Is there such a thing as a vector drop shadow?

                 

                Of course there is.

                 

                 

                The more pertinent question is "Is there such thing as vector transparency?", which is necessary for the soft-edged fuzzy effects which most people mean nowadays when they say "drop shadow." The two shadows above are all vector. The top hard-edged one was created by the Drop Shadow Filter. The soft-edged fuzzy one is a Blend. They were drawn in Illustrator, exported to PDF (without AI editability), and then opened again in AI. They were still all vector objects after the round-trip to PDF.

                 

                So can the rasterization of transparency applied to vector objects be postponed until RIP time? (Everything is eventually rasterized—it's a question of when.) Evidently so. Again, the capabilities would differ between different PDF and (I assume) Postscript versions.

                 

                JET

                • 5. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                  M.Jay.Victor Level 2

                  In a perfect world, it would not matter where the graphic was created. We don't live there though. Assuming they want to send this logo to others to use, and want to maximize compatibility, do not use ID to create it.

                   

                  I wish i could give you a scientific explanation of this, but i cant. All i can tell you is that Indesign created PDFs sometimes do weird things when imported and placed in Quark... and vice versa. So it is best, for logo compatibility to have the file originate in Illustrator.

                  • 6. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                    M.Jay.Victor Level 2

                    actualy...

                    in a perfect world... I wouldnt have to deal with Quark anymore:)

                    • 7. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                      homeboy4 User Group Manager

                      Hey, I agree with you. I just don't know Illustrator. And I have Illy books and have taken elementary classes. That's why I can do elementary things. What would really help me is to sit down side-by-side with a tutor working in Illustrator on one computer and me working InDesign on the other. I'd like to watch the Illy person mimic what I do in InDesign. THAT would really help.

                      • 8. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                        JETalmage Level 6
                        Assuming they want to send this logo to others to use, and want to maximize compatibility, do not use ID to create it.

                        Nonsense.

                         

                        I wish i could give you a scientific explanation of this, but i cant.

                         

                        Without any reason, your blunderbuss assertion is nothing but anecdotal, and shouldn't be offered as general advice.

                         

                        The notion that only Illustrator can produce a useable PDF is just silly.

                         

                        JET

                        • 9. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                          M.Jay.Victor Level 2

                          WOW...

                           

                          I guess you've seen it all eh Jet? You know for fact I'm wrong?

                           

                          that seems arrogant

                          but hey

                           

                          Anyhow i NEVER said only Illy produced Usable PDF's. Actually straight to rip I've seen MORE problems from Illy PDFs than IND. What I did say is that i would not design a LOGO for someone else in IND.

                           

                          Its not like I come here and make crap up. I HAVE SEEN Art go from IND PDF to Quark, and rip dropping random images, scramble text etc. I have also seen this from Quark PDF to IND.

                           

                          Now assuming Im not lying Jet, WHY would you give someone art that may be used somewhere and cause problems.

                          • 10. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                            JETalmage Level 6
                            Now assuming Im not lying Jet, WHY would you give someone art that may be used somewhere and cause problems.

                             

                            You are jumping to an assumtion that the anecdotal problems you have had are due to the fact that particular PDFs were built in InDesign. You even said you cannot provide any technical reason. Yet you then feel compelled to offer blanket advice against ever using PDFs from InDesign for placement in other programs.

                             

                            I say that's typical of ill-founded, jump-to-conclusions misadvice too often given in this forum.

                             

                            JET

                            • 11. Re: Logo with Drop Shadow on Unwhite Background
                              M.Jay.Victor Level 2

                              There are some levels of assumption yes, and a lot of experience. Not in one environment, and not with one version of the applications either. The recent embedded font issue fix in ID is a perfect, albeit reversed example of what I describe here.

                               

                              Oh, and i couldnt give the technical reasons for that either, but i was able to deduce how to avoid it.