23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 31, 2009 11:57 AM by Jeff Bellune

    Performance Hit with Windows 7

    BobBenson Level 1

      The November, 2009, issue of Maximum PC has benchmarks comparing XP 32-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Windows 7 64-bit. Two of the benchmarks are Adobe Premiere and Photoshop. The article didn't specify, but Maximum PC usually uses Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and Photoshop CS3 as benchmarks.

       

      Using Adobe Premiere, XP was 831 seconds, Vista was 739 seconds, and Win 7 was 840 seconds. Win 7 was 13.67% slower than Vista. Photoshop also showed a 10.24% performance hit compared to Vista.

       

      That is a significant performance hit.

        • 1. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Do you have a link? I like to read it. Or do I have to wait for november, considering it is only september.

           

          Initial results show - at least with the PPBM benchmark - about 5% improvement of Vista over XP and Win7 about 5 % faster than Vista. Quite the contrary of what you quoted.

          • 3. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
            glaustin Level 1

            Hi

            I had a new PC built in August with Pr in mind and had XP64 installed. Apart from being naturally apprehensive with any new M$ OS until at least SP 1, after speaking with the Adobe Tech guys I was under the impresssion that Windows 7 could be a bit hit and miss because they hadn't completed testing and wouldn't until a while after 7's launch.

             

            If I've got this wrong and Windows 7, particularly 64, is robust and reliable with Pr I might upgrade sooner before I get too much stock on the HDD and have to reload everything as I cannot simply migrate to W7 without a full clean install.

             

            Regards,

            Graham

            • 4. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              I have benchmarked repeatedly, and for my Premiere Pro BenchMark, Win 7 64 RC is overall faster tha Vista 64.  The total score for my three benchmarks on my dual Xeon system for Win 7 is 80.5 seconds versus Vista 64 score of 89.4 seconds where lower is better.  One interesting factor is that the disk intensive benchmark portion of the test is slower but much less sensitive to high performance disks in Win 7 than in Vista.  I believe that Microsoft may have implemented a double buffering (or at least an improved buffering) scheme in Win 7 to make disk I/O better.  This has caused the Win 7 scores for the disk intensive AVI encoding to be slightly higher than the Vista AVI scores, but less dependent on fancy exotic disk system performance.

              • 5. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                A useless review IMO. Great for people who look at UI changes, but their benchmark is utterly meaningless and they test with an outdated CPU. They do not tell what they test, just show some figures.

                • 6. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Why do you think that the 4.2 update is imminent? To roughy coincide with the release of Win7.

                  • 7. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                    dradeke Adobe Employee

                    I'm a card carrying Maximum PC subscriber and actually did the press briefing for Gordon for CS4 about a year ago.

                     

                    If you're a PC user and into this sort of thing, I highly recommend this magazine.

                     

                    I haven't read this article yet (it's still in my backpack) HOWEVER...

                     

                    When I read your words "CS3" I stopped caring.  Why? Because CS3 isn't 64-bit aware like CS4.  That means it can't see the additional memory.  Plus it's not testing the latest version which is important as it represents the latest best effort by Adobe and the one most likely to perform the way it should on Windows 7 when it ships.

                     

                    They need to do the test again on CS4.

                     

                    I'll read the article and comment if necessary.

                     

                    Dennis

                    • 8. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                      T-10x2 Level 1

                      dradeke , as an employee it doesn't surprise me that when CS3 is brought up that "you don't care". Your company dumped all meaningful support on CS3 18 months after it announced the product and dumped your customers in the process. Adboe forced customers to either purchase CS4 if they wanted to maintain compatibility with supported industry standards like Camera RAW support and many similar standards and new device support across the CS3 suite of products. I guess it is a good strategy for shareholder "short term" because if does force professionals to shell out another $1,500+.

                       

                      • 9. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Hey T-10,

                         

                        Where are you coming from?

                         

                        Did you know that PR is a VIDEO editing application? What is the relevancy of mentioning some STILL camera formats like RAW? That is certainly not a professional talking. Use PS for that. And nobody forced anyone to 'shell out' $ 1500+. That is the choice of the user. Did you ever consider that Microsoft stopped updating Windows 3.11? You should blame them for not keeping it alive after all these years, just as you should blame Ford for no longer supplying spare parts for the T-Ford.

                         

                        Get real.

                        • 10. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                          PVOVideo Level 1

                          All these numbers swirling around, Windows 7 is out, can we start getting some 1) official, technical, real-world numbers for various Adobe products, and 2) have them posted somewhere obvious? I've read many of these reviews and such, but cannot find a good realistic hands-on review of W7 and Adobe sw - Premiere Pro in various flavors being what I'm most interested.

                           

                          And if by chance someone reads this, CS3 might not be 64-bit, but if there is more RAM memory, each program will have its own RAM, and not be sharing only amongst that first 3 (or 4), is that wishful thinking, or am I totally off-base here?

                           

                          Thanks!

                          • 11. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                            acmputr Level 1

                            Bad news Graham.  I just had this talk with the Microsoft REP.  Vista x64 is the only upgrade path for Windows 7 x64.   You could upgrade to Vista x64 and then Windows 7 x64 but every upgrade creates additional directories that would irritate a person who wants a clean install.  Windows 7 does include an XP compatiblility mode if you have any issues.  BUT, I haven't tried it yet personally.

                            • 12. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                              .  This screen below is from my brand new Windows 7 Pro 64 load that I just installed.  I wanted HDtach on the system and here is what I ended up with and HDtach is working fine.

                              Win7-XP-Compatibility.jpg

                              You want real world Premiere Pro CS4 v4.1 numbers look at my PPBM Benchmarks

                              • 13. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                acmputr Level 1

                                Isn't that special!  I'm an Intel and a Microsoft dealer and just had this conversation with a Microsoft REP at the semi-annual Intel ICC dealer meeting in Santa Clara last week.  I wonder if you continue, will you get an upgrade or a side-by-side install?   I have a quad core with XP x64 on it that I use for rendering files, I also have my Windows 7 dealer releases.  I guess I'll just have to try it.

                                • 14. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                  glaustin Level 1

                                  Hi Guys

                                  I had the trial version of CS4 Master Collection, which I bought specifically for Pr and AE (but thought I'd get the lot to save money on Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Flash, etc, etc). I spoke with Adobe at the end of July, before having my PC built. I was told XP64e was the best version because Vista wasn't so stable in general and they didn't know when W7 conformance testing would be completed; that seems not to be the case!

                                   

                                  I raised some problems in another thread on the CS4 Master Collection forum (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/499035), where I was told XP64 is not supported at all by Adobe. To cut a long story short, I wrote to Shantanu Narayen, the Adobe CEO, at the start of the month complaining about the unnessary costs Adobe have caused through this wrong advice (the original plan until speaking to Adobe was to install Vista on the new build for the W7 upgrade path). It seems the cost of a stamp to Europe is too expensive because I've heard nothing yet. Whatever the outcome I'll have to pay to move to W7 within a month or two of buying XP64 due to wrong advice by Adobe.

                                   

                                  More generally I had thought that the XP W7 upgrade was a monetary rather than technical package because all that upgrade offers is a bit off the price unlike the Vista upgrade, where it overwrites the existing structure.

                                   

                                  Regards,

                                  Graham

                                  A very unhappy guy...

                                  • 15. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                    Taverino Level 2
                                    as an employee it doesn't surprise me that when CS3 is brought up that "you don't care". Your company dumped all meaningful support on CS3 18 months after it announced the product and dumped your customers in the process. Adboe forced customers to either purchase CS4 if they wanted to maintain compatibility with supported industry standards like Camera RAW support and many similar standards and new device support across the CS3 suite of products. I guess it is a good strategy for shareholder "short term" because if does force professionals to shell out another $1,500+.

                                    The upgrade to CS4 production Suite from CS3 cost me $600 which is a tiny part of my overhead for a product which I use for many hours per day and is an essential part of my modest operation. I would much rather Adobe allocate all of its resources to stability, performance, and innovations for it's latest version than to waste a single second on old versions.

                                    • 16. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                      I would much rather Adobe allocate all of its resources to stability, performance, and innovations for it's latest version than to waste a single second on old versions.

                                       

                                      A sound idea, IF all the bugs in the old version have been patched.  Like others, I find it a somewhat disturbing practice that Adobe often forces users to pay for bug fixes because the patch is only available in a new version.  That's not right.  New versions should be purchased because one needs new features, not because one needs current features to work correctly.

                                      • 17. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                        acmputr Level 1

                                        I had a 2nd machine running Premiere Pro CS4 that I use for rendering.  It's an orginal Intel board / Quad core 2.4 with NVidia 256 Video and 6 GB DDR2 running XP x64.  This thread made me curious so I swapped out the OS drive and installed Windows 7 Pro x64, updated the OS and then installed Premiere Pro CS4 and updated it to 4.1.  I'm impressed.  It starts up faster, it loads projects faster and runs the edits faster.  It has been rock solid so far.  Now I'm enboldened, I'm going to upgrade my Vista Pro x64 system.  But, I will ghost image the OS drive first, just in case.  FYI, I'm a computer builder so I only use approved and tested RAM and video cards.

                                        • 18. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                          Jgerard1 Level 1

                                          Here, Here. I second that comment. I love the Adobe software I use Premiere Pro CS3, Encore CS3, Bridge and Photoshop CS3 extended.. I do all custom DVD menus and love how I can go back and forth between products. I hate the fact the Premiere and/or Encore crashes on me regularly. Less now than before. One case in point when I go to the Titler and click on any of the fancy type faces I get an immediate low memory message then shortly after that it crashes. This happen in PP CS2 and other crashing problems and is still happening in PP CS3. I think this is terrible that I have to upgrade just to try to fix some of these type of issues. If I want the new features great. I am willing to upgrade for that reason alone. Also, This is not just a regular consumer grade product we are talking about here. This is a professional product that costs a lot of money. I think Adobe could do a lot better.

                                           

                                           

                                          John

                                          • 19. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                            Jgerard1 Level 1

                                            Also, I just wanted to say that even if PP CS3 32bit can only use up to lets say for argument sake, 3GB RAM Windows 7 64bit should be able to load it's stuff in the extra memory space. Assuming that Windows is designed correctly. In which case that means more RAM for PP to use. In theory it should work that way, one would think.  PP should be able to address up to 4GB RAM I know that some of this space is shared by the Graphics card RAM that you have to use in the calculation.

                                             

                                             

                                            John

                                            • 20. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                              One case in point when I go to the Titler and click on any of the fancy type faces I get an immediate low memory message then shortly after that it crashes

                                              Do you have OpenOffice installed?  If so, uninstall the Deja Vu font and try the titler again.

                                               

                                              -Jeff

                                              • 21. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                                Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                                This was a really poorly designed test.   As others have confirmed; I will add to:  Win 7 is generally faster than vista 64 and Pr CS4 tends to run  a smidge faster in it as well.

                                                • 22. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                                  Jgerard1 Level 1

                                                  Thanks for the thoughts. I don't have Open Office or any software except Adobe and a few others like VirtualDub, Raxio, etc. This computer is for video only. I will check to see if this font was installed anyway.

                                                   

                                                  John

                                                  • 23. Re: Performance Hit with Windows 7
                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                    If Deja Vu is not installed, it's still likely that a corrupt or rogue font is causing the problem.

                                                     

                                                    You'll have to do a bit of troubleshooting that involves removing half of your fonts, then testing the titler.  If it still crashes, then remove half of the remaining fonts and test again.  And so on.

                                                     

                                                    I use the free program FontFrenzy for this type of stuff.

                                                     

                                                    -Jeff