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1. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 6, 2009 5:13 AM (in response to Musti_HW)There is no use for two video cards. I would opt for an ATI HD 4xxx or nVidia GTX 2xx card and forget about a Quadro.
The Revolution is more expensive than the DeLuxe V2 or WS Pro. When on a budget, what is the value added?
Zalman would not be my first choice for CPU cooler. Either the Noctua NH-U12P or the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme would have my preference.
Don't you want to edit? Get at least 3 additional large 7200 disks and don't use a raid1 on them.
For memory go for 2 kits to bring up your memory to 12 GB. You may not need DDR3-1600 memory unless you want to over clock beyond 3.6 GHz. If you don't want to go that far, DDR-1333 is enough.
Have a look at this: How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...
and pay special attention to the section in the PC Buying guide about PSU requirements. Is 650 W enough for your configuration, possibly with a push-pull CPU cooler and the additional memory, hard disks, fans, etc.?
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2. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 6, 2009 5:56 AM (in response to Musti_HW)Forgot to answer your other question about the Xeon 5506. It is severly crippled, no HT, half the cache of higher end CPU's so IMO a strict no go.
The i7-860 and the i7-920 are about equal in performance. However the P55 chipset and the i7-8xx architecture have some drawbacks. See this article: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/489329
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3. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 6, 2009 6:39 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Hello Harm,
thank you for your detailed feedback. Here are my notices:
> I would opt for an ATI HD 4xxx or nVidia GTX 2xx card and forget about a Quadro.
OK, in this case my tendency is GTX 2xxx. But which one exactly can you suggest? How big should be memory on graphic interface?
> The Revolution is more expensive than the DeLuxe V2 or WS Pro. When on a budget, what is the value added?
I chosen Revolution because WS Pro was not/is not listed on the home page of ASUS, and I thought ASUS will not continue with this product (http://www.asus.de/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=179). If that is not the case, I prefer also WS Pro.
> Zalman would not be my first choice for CPU cooler.
Is there any special reason for it? I prefered Zalman because, as I read tests, it is quite. How about with the loudness of Noctua NH-U12P or the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme?
> Don't you want to edit? Get at least 3 additional large 7200 disks and don't use a raid1 on them.
Sure :-). I listed you only the OS hard disks. My storage configuration is as follow:
- 2 x 150 GB SATA II, 10000 hard disk for OS (RAID 1).
- 1 x 500 GB SATA II 7200 hard disk for pagesys file, temps, cache, etc. How about with Adobe CS4 cache files? Is it ok to store them on this HD? Can I separate the Adobe cache files from the project data files?
- 1 x 2 TB SATA II 7200 harddisk for Adobe CS4 data storage.
I think Western Digital is not a bad choice, isn't it?
> You may not need DDR3-1600 memory unless you want to over clock beyond 3.6 GHz.
I am not sure at this moment, perhapt I need over clocking.
> Is 650 W enough for your configuration...
I think at this moment yes, perhaps I should investigate for 750 W or 850 W. I'll use also DVB-T interface on this PC.
What about with my PC case choice? Is it ok? Or you prefer other one?
How about with Xeon and i7-860 processors? You listed the disadvantages of i7-860 CPU in your article (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/433549). As I understood correctly, you prefer i7-9xx CPUs in the PC, don't you?
Unfortunatelly, the hardware components are much more expensive in Germany (about 30% more) as in the USA. Because of that I must build a middle-performance PC. Do you know any inexpensive hardware supplier/reseller in any country of European Union?
Best Regards
Musti
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4. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 6, 2009 7:55 AM (in response to Musti_HW)I'll reply later tonight, Have to go to a dinner right now.
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5. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 6, 2009 8:07 AM (in response to Musti_HW)my tendency is GTX 2xxx. But which one exactly can you suggest?
The cheapest. The GPU will make little difference with editing.
I chosen Revolution
The P6T SE is a very usable board, and much cheaper. If you don't need the features it lacks, consider it.
perhaps I should investigate for 750 W or 850 W. I'll use also DVB-T interface on this PC.
As a point of interest, I've no issues with an Enermax 600W PS with a config similar to your suggested purchase.
- 2 x 150 GB SATA II, 10000 hard disk for OS (RAID 1).
- 1 x 500 GB SATA II 7200 hard disk for pagesys file, temps, cache, etc. How about with Adobe CS4 cache files? Is it ok to store them on this HD? Can I separate the Adobe cache files from the project data files?
- 1 x 2 TB SATA II 7200 harddisk for Adobe CS4 data storage.
My own preference here would be to RAID the 500GB Project drive. I had one fail on me recently, and thought I'd lost a whole lot of material. Fortunately, it was only the drive's controller that was having intermittent problems, and I was successful at eventually pulling off all the data. Point is, rebuilding an OS and reinstalling programs may be less devastating than losing everything on your Project drive.
And yes, Scratch files are fine on the Project drive.
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6. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 6, 2009 3:52 PM (in response to Musti_HW)But which one exactly can you suggest? How big should be memory on graphic interface?
All cards with at least 512 MB are good. If you lean towards nVidia I would look at the GTX 260 or 275. Anything above that is a waste of money for the performance gain you get.
Is there any special reason for it? I prefered Zalman because, as I read tests, it is quite. How about with the loudness of Noctua NH-U12P or the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme?
My reasoning is that I want a CPU cooler to COOL and the consistent two top performers are the Noctua and Thermalright. Zalman often comes out of a lot of tests as a mediocre performer. I don't look at the noise of the fans, but I think that the differences are pretty small. The Noctua has the advantage of push-pull setup.
Your case is OK, but that is mostly a very personal choice. I like Lian Li very much, but that is not in the budget category.
In Germany www.alternate.de may be a good place to start for competitive pricing. In the Netherlands I use the Pricewatch on http://tweakers.net to find the best prices. Google and you will find similar sites in Germany.
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7. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 7, 2009 2:24 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Hello Harm,
thank you again.
The information and tips are very helpful for me.
If I have any question later, I think, I can contact you in forum.
Best Regards and Greetings from Munich
Musti
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8. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 7, 2009 2:43 AM (in response to JSS1138)Hi Jim,
thank you for your suggestions.
> The P6T SE is a very usable board, and much cheaper.
There is no SAS ports ans SL or CrossFireX support on P6T SE. I'd like investigate for 3-4 years, because of that I prefer a motherboard with more features. I will buy P6T6 WS Professional.
> I've no issues with an Enermax 600W PS with a config similar to your suggested purchase.
Yes, you're right. I think it is enough for me a PSU with 650 W.
> My own preference here would be to RAID the 500GB Project drive.
Backup is a very important issue. At this moment, I have only an archive hard disk for old project data. I must have a better backup concept against data lost. If I realize it, I prefer RAID 1 for project drive.
> And yes, Scratch files are fine on the Project drive.
You mean, I should not save Scratch files on other drive than project files?
Best Regards
Musti
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9. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 7, 2009 9:03 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Hi Hamm,
I have now my component choices for my self-build computer.
Please give your last suggestions for them. I need your help in video interface choice.
Here are my choices
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Case: Cooler Master CM 690 Pure
Power Supply: Corsair HX 750W ATX 2.3 (CMPSU-750HX)
Motherboard: ASUS P6T WS Professional
Processor: Intel Core i7-920
Processor Cooling Fan: Noctua NH-U12P SE1366
Memory: OCZ Platinum Low-Voltage DIMM Kit 12GB PC3-12800U CL7-7-7-24 (DDR3-1600) (OCZ3P1600LV12GS)
Graphic/Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 275 AMP! Edition, 896MB GDDR3 (ZT-275E3KB-FCP) OR Sapphire Toxic Radeon HD 4890 GameStar Edition, 1024MB GDDR5, full retail (11150-07-50R)
Hard Disk: for OS: 1 x Western Digital VelociRaptor 150GB, SATA II, for pagefilesys/temps/etc: 1 x Western Digital Caviar Black 1000GB, SATA II (WD1001FALS), for Adobe project data: 2 x Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB, SATA II (WD2001FASS) (as SATA RAID 1)
Blue-ray Driver: LiteOn DH-4B1S, SATA, black, retail (10C)
Operating System: Windows 7, Ultimate Edition, 64 bit--------------------------------------------------
Best Regards
Musti
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10. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 7, 2009 11:25 AM (in response to Musti_HW)Looks good!
With regards to the video card, both are great choices. I think your choice can easily be based on availablility, price and personal preference. Whichever you choose, you can't go wrong.
Pagefile and temps I would put in the first WD Caviar Black disk, not on your C drive.
Do you need the extras in Win7 Ultimate or would Pro suffice?
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11. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 7, 2009 11:45 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Hi Harm,
> Pagefile and temps I would put in the first WD Caviar Black disk, not on your C drive.
Sure. I will configure for each hard disk only one partition as follow:
Partition C: for OS > Western Digital VelociRaptor, 150 GB
Partition D: for pagefilesys/temps/etc > Western Digital Caviar Black 1000GB
Partition E: for Adobe project data > 2 x Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB (RAID 1)
> Do you need the extras in Win7 Ultimate or would Pro suffice?
The main reason is the multiple language support.
Best Regards
Musti
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12. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 8, 2009 2:46 AM (in response to Musti_HW)Musti,
Vielleicht ist diese Stelle interessant: http://www.preisvergleich.de/category/index/id/1746/name/Komponenten
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13. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
INTYME1985 Oct 15, 2009 5:42 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)"There is no use for two video cards. I would opt for an ATI HD 4xxx or nVidia GTX 2xx card and forget about a Quadro."
Pardon my interruption.... Can I run 3 monitors with one card?
Thanks for all the great advice too!
JM
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14. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 15, 2009 7:12 AM (in response to INTYME1985)The only card I know of with three monitor capabilities was the Matrox Parahelia, which I don't believe is still available. (But even if it were, it's such old technology I'd skip it anyway.)
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15. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
ambisinistrous Oct 15, 2009 9:15 AM (in response to JSS1138)Ah, the Parhelia.
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16. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
INTYME1985 Oct 15, 2009 3:21 PM (in response to ambisinistrous)right on, thanks... I came surfing this forum to research my next computer purchase.. 3 monitors is the objective..
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17. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 15, 2009 6:47 PM (in response to INTYME1985)You can always use 2 cards.
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18. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 16, 2009 9:30 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Dear Mr. Millard,
I have seen your comments in various forums, including your comments on the VideoGuys DIY7 build. I would be very much appreciative if you could offer your analysis and recommendations on the following configuration I intend to build, my first, based upon the DIY7 build.
MoBo - Asus P6T Deluxe V2
CPU - Intel Core i7 920 (Are there different ones? Is there a particular one I must get?)
Memory - Corsair XMS3 12GB PC12800 DDR3 - 6x2048MB (I anticipate you will recommend DDR3-10600-1333)
Hard Drives:
Boot Drive - Western Digital WD3200AAJS 320GB SATA2 7200rpm 8MB
Video Storage - Western Digital WD3200AAJS 320GB SATA2 7200rpm 8MB
(I don't know how many and I don't know which ones. I also don't know about the necessity of a RAID 0).
Case - Cooler Master Centurion 534
Power - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W
DVD+/-RW - Need a recommendation. I do not anticipate any Blu-Ray needs for my work.
GPU - NVIDIA FX 1800 by PNY. This is an expensive card. I anticipate you will direct me to the ATI HD48xx or nVidia GTX2xx. However, I will be using Premiere Pro, After Effects, SoundBooth, and Encore, one or more dynamically linked at various times.
Cooling - I am quite ignorant here. I hope the Power Supply will be adequate for the case, but I suspect there is a cooling device I should also get for the CPU that perhaps does not come with the CPU. I anticipate you will recommend the Noctua NH-U12P or the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. However, I do not expect to overclock, unless you recommend it.
Monitor - Not sure how critical this is, but I would like to spend no more than $150.
OS - Windows 7 64-bit, but not sure which one. Ultimate?
Note: I own the CS4 Master Collection. I am brand new to video editing and PC building, but have good aptitude for both. We are producing a multi-DVD curriculum and it has to be good. We will also be publishing videos on the web and intend to do many more productions in the future. Steep learning curve for me, but the benefit for those we are trying to help should be quite significant (we're a non-profit).
I am extremely grateful to you and others who offer so much valuable info on this site to those of us who are in desperate need of it.
Paul
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19. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Bill Gehrke Oct 16, 2009 11:23 AM (in response to Paul R Stark)Paul R Stark wrote:
CPU - Intel Core i7 920 (Are there different ones? Is there a particular one I must get?)
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20. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
John T Smith Oct 16, 2009 12:14 PM (in response to Bill Gehrke)That is a good price IF you are near a Microcenter store for the "in store pickup only" feature
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21. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 16, 2009 12:28 PM (in response to John T Smith)Good catch. I hadn't noticed that. What's the next best option you are aware of?
Thx.
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22. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Musti_HW Oct 16, 2009 2:38 PM (in response to Bill Gehrke)Hi Bill,
unfortunately, Micro Center does not ship to Germany. Does anybody know any shop in the USA with good prices which will ship to other countries?
Best Regards
Cicek
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23. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 16, 2009 10:42 PM (in response to Paul R Stark)Video Storage - Western Digital WD3200AAJS 320GB SATA2 7200rpm 8MB
That's awfully small for a Media drive. I'd double that at least, maybe even quadruple it. (In capacity, not number of drives).
Regarding the number of drives, add at least a third good size drive for Projects/Scratch.
DVD+/-RW - Need a recommendation.
I currently use the Optiarc 7200S with Falcon Pro media, and I routinely produce DVDs with fewer errors than many Hollywood disks I own. Not a one in 400+ has ever come back or generated a client complaint. The current model number is now the 7240S.
I anticipate you will direct me to the ATI HD48xx. However, I will be using Premiere Pro, After Effects, SoundBooth, and Encore, one or more dynamically linked at various times.
Save your money and stick with that anticipated recommendation. Running multiple apps won't stress the card, it'll stress the memory, for which you have a very good 12GB.
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24. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 17, 2009 5:34 AM (in response to JSS1138)I would look not only at lager disks in capacity, but also with 32 MB cache, not with only 8 MB.
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25. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 17, 2009 6:55 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Thank you Jim and Harm.
Will this card be adequate and compatible with my planned configuration?
MSI ATI Radeon HD4850 OC 1GB DDR3 2DVI PCI-Express Video Card
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26. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 17, 2009 8:18 AM (in response to Paul R Stark)It'll be more than sufficient.
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27. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 17, 2009 10:37 AM (in response to JSS1138)Thank you, Jim.
To start off with, how about the following hard drive setup:
OS - Western Digital WD5001AALS 500GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB Intellipower Hard Drive
Media - Seagate ST3750528AS 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB Hard Drive
Projects/Scratch - Seagate ST3750528AS 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB Hard Drive
This is based primarily on current pricing vs. capacity considerations (can't find a 32mb OS drive under 500gb).
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28. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 17, 2009 10:53 AM (in response to Paul R Stark)(can't find a 32mb OS drive under 500gb).
I personally wouldn't worry too much about that for the System drive. 500 GB is a lot of wasted space, as this drive should ideally be used only for the OS and Programs. I currently use a 75 GB drive and have room left over. If there's one chepaer and smaller, go with it.
You should be fine with the Seagates. They're very fast drives. Harm's not a big fan, preferring WDs. My experience has led me to the opposite view. I'd never buy another WD again, but have had no issues with my Seagate 7200.11 drive. Your 7200.12 drives are even better.
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29. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 17, 2009 11:28 AM (in response to JSS1138)Okay, then I'll be happy to go with a very small OS drive, even if it's only an 8mb cache, and save lots of $.
Thx.
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30. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 17, 2009 11:38 AM (in response to JSS1138)Harm's not a big fan,
which is not surprising with failure rates for 7200.11 models over 70%, I think.
It appears the 7200.12 have finally improved in terms of reliability.
For a boot disk I prefer a Velociraptor, but that does not fit the 'low-budget' question. Given the price difference between the 320GB/8MB WD and the Seagate 7200.12 500GB/32MB of € 3 for a single disk it is IMO a simple choice. You have the advantage of a very low fill rate and maximum speeds.
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31. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 17, 2009 1:12 PM (in response to JSS1138)Here is what I hope is my final configuration for my first editing workstation. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments as to whether all parts are compatible so that the assembled workstation will be properly operational and reliable for some time.
Motherboard $215.00 Processor Intel Core i7 2.66GHz (which one?) $290.00RAM OCZ Platinum 12GB DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) $230.00 Boot Drive $60.00 Projects/Scratch $70.00 Media $70.00 Case $48.00 Power Supply CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W $110.00 DVD+/-RW Sony Optiarc AD-7240S-0B 24X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW SATA Drive $28.00 Graphics Card $116.00 Processor Cooling Fan Not sure I need this since don't intend to overclock OS Windows 7 Pro $30.00 $1,267.00 Thanks everyone.
By the way, I welcome any picky recommendations on parts and pricing.
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32. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 17, 2009 11:47 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)which is not surprising with failure rates for 7200.11 models over 70%, I think.
Now, now. The problems with the .11 series can't really be called 'failures' as no data was actually lost from the firmware error. And the new firmware did resolve the issue. (And personally, I'm skeptical of that 70% figure.)
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33. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 17, 2009 11:51 PM (in response to JSS1138)Overall I expect your system will perform very nicely, Paul.
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34. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Harm Millaard Oct 18, 2009 9:10 AM (in response to JSS1138)(And personally, I'm skeptical of that 70% figure.)
You should try it in a 7 disk iSCSI NAS array, that is in a perpetual state of rebuilding, where 5 disks needed to be replaced. That is over 71%.
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35. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Bill Gehrke Oct 18, 2009 11:16 AM (in response to Musti_HW)I did have one 7200.11 out of my nine 7200.11 drives go bad. But I just went out and bought three new 7200.12 drives that are working great.
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36. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
JSS1138 Oct 18, 2009 2:58 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)That is over 71%.
For you, not the world. In Bill's case it was only 11%. In my case it was 0%.
Using just us three, that's a 27% average. I suspect that number would drop further if we counted all .11 drives in use.
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37. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
John T Smith Oct 18, 2009 3:39 PM (in response to JSS1138)Several (3-4) years ago I bought two WD 250Gig drives... both failed within 90 days
While MY experience with that size drive was 100% failure (I don't remember the model #'s) I have not had early WD failures before or since
I have had other drives fail... but only after 5-6-7 years of constant service, which I do not find unusual (and is the reason I make full backup several times a year, with file backups as needed for important files)
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38. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Paul R Stark Oct 19, 2009 8:04 AM (in response to John T Smith)Need a substitute case suggestion for Cooler Master Centurion 534 RC-534-KKN2-GP No PS ATX Mid Tower Case (Black).
How about this one:
COOLER MASTER RC-330-KKN1-GP Elite 330 Mid Tower Case (Black) Retail
(RoHS Certified) w/o Power SupplyIs it comparable? Is there a better suggestion in the same price range?
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39. Re: Low-budget Performance PC for Adobe CS4
Joker B Oct 23, 2009 7:15 AM (in response to Bill Gehrke)Thx fr the tip! I just built a new system & saved about $100 below my eggspected online price





