16 Replies Latest reply on Nov 16, 2009 3:14 AM by Jacob Bugge

    Making all blacks rich black in AI?

    tiddlediddlebug Level 1

      Hi there,  this is an Illustrator image and you can see what is rich black and what isn't...  I did go through all files and just select all and adjust the black to rich black, but obviously that didn't work (thankfully the place that I sent it to for production was able to change it all to rich black).  Anyway...  How can I make sure everything is rich black?  Can I do a universal change?  Or do I have to select every path, shape, etc.?  Thanks for the help.

       

      -Kristie

      richblack.jpg

        • 1. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
          Scott Falkner Level 5

          I can’t see what is rich black and what isn’t because you posted and RGB JPEG image, not a CMYK Illustrator file. And I suspect your Illustrator file is RGB as well.


          Illustrator has many annoying “features,” one of which is that you can specify colours as RGB or CMYK, but the file will only remember the colour in the colour mode your file is in. This means if you type CMYK values for a colour in an RGB file the colour is not recorded using those numbers you entered. They are converted to RGB and, later, back to CMYK if you open the Color panel. Why? Good question. I can only assume that it is there to annoy people.


          Go to File > Document Color Mode > CMYK. Now your CMYK values will stick. Just be sure to change all on them after you change colour mode.

          • 2. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
            tiddlediddlebug Level 1

            I did post an RGB jpg image, but only to illustrate that some portions were rich black and others not.  The original image is CMYK.  It MAY have started RGB, I can't remember which were and weren't bc we had about 35 files to work with.  And I know there were at least a few that I switched from RGB to CMYK.  It is in CMYK and I opened it into photoshop with the result being the jpb you saw in my post...

             

            Opening it into PS in either format generates the same grayish blacks you see in the pic.

             

            Any other ideas?  I had saved them all as CMYK and then went through them all to make the rich black (50,40,40,100 or whatever the distribution is -- I forget!!).  Thanks.

             

            -K

            • 3. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
              Scott Falkner Level 5

              Are you saying you have a CMYK Illustrator file that you rasterize in CMYK in Photoshop and the CMYK values are not identical? What versions, and what OS? Can you post the AI file? You might have to ZIP it first.

               

              Also, what are you trying to end up with? Why are you rasterizing artwork that's meant for print?

              • 4. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                I'm on my way to bed, but will give you what info I can right now.

                 

                vector artwork in AI to be printed, but also to be reproduced in jpg for website.  So I was simply attempting to place the AI artwork (cmyk) into my PSD file I'm working with.  It's actually for apparel.  The AI files are the designs that needed to be vector CMYK to be reproduced.  Then I'm creating a PSD file bringing the artwork in, setting it on apparel and then creating a jpg to go online.

                 

                So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.  I very well may have completely botched the AI/CMYK thing...  I did convert all files that weren't cmyk into cmyk and then went through and tried to make sure all blacks were rich black...  I forget the selections, but there was something where I could go up to some function in the toolbar and set a global value for black.  I just can't remember it right now.


                I've attached the AI file for the jpg above...

                 

                Thanks so much for your help.  This is a somewhat new process for me, so I won't be surprised if you tell me I screwed it up.  Thankfully the art dept where I sent it seemed to easily make sure it all came out correctly as far as the black.

                 

                -K

                • 5. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                  Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                  It is actually clear what is and is not rich black. the eyes are rich backs every thing else seems a one color black.

                   

                  Make a swatch that is rich black make it global.

                   

                  Then select all the art (command A) and then go to Edit>Edit Colors> Recolor Art then select the New Color bar next to the one color black and it must be in the document, select the new color click on it to bring up the color picker and choose swatches and select you rich black hit Ok and the Ok again an that should do it

                   

                  Click ok.

                   

                  Now everything is good.

                   

                  Before you do any of this go tot he Preferences and in Appearance of Black make certain to display blacks accurately is chosen.

                   

                  Screen shot 2009-10-17 at 3.24.36 AM.png

                   

                  Screen shot 2009-10-17 at 3.25.18 AM.png

                   

                  Screen shot 2009-10-17 at 3.25.38 AM.png

                   

                  Screen shot 2009-10-17 at 3.47.00 AM.png

                  • 6. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                    Jacob Bugge MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    tiddlediddlebug,

                     

                    Actually, you non rich black is 0/0/0/100, and your rich black is a strange 74.9/67.8/67.1/90.2, in other words not containing 100K. At least that is how they appear with my current settings in 10. If that is the case for you, too, it might indicate that the rich black was made in RGB and the non rich black later in CMYK.

                     

                    You may easily recolour the non rich black by:

                     

                    1) Select on path with it,

                    2) Select>Same>Fill colour and insert the desired value, see below.

                     

                    You may do the same to your strange rich black, see below.

                     

                    But since you are using Pantones for the rest of the colours, I would suggest your changing both to a Pantone black, and get rid of the 4 process colours. That is much simpler, and should be cheaper in print. You could use PANTONE Black or PANTONE Process Black.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                      tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                      Ok, will try this later on when I get back to work.  I don't really want to have to select all the paths, etc. because some of the drawings have tons of them...  I got them that way from the artist.  I'll see what I can do in a bit.  Thanks again for all your help.

                      • 8. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                        Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                        Here is a movie.

                         

                        First make a swatch for your rich black say C50 M50 Y50 and K100 but some users use more like 80% of each of the other colors instead of 50%.

                         

                        But this is easy

                         

                        http://mysite.verizon.net/wzphoto/Rich.mov

                         

                        It is very simple. You won't have to ungroup or even go into isolation mode.

                         

                        BTW I like the illustration!

                        • 9. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                          Jacob Bugge MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          tiddlediddlebug,

                           

                          ... I don't really want to have to select all the paths, etc. because some of the drawings have tons of them...

                           

                          nor should you. Just choose one (1) of the paths of each colour, and Select>Same>Fill Color as described in post #6, and Illy will find all the others for you.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                            tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                            I'm glad you like it, Wade !!

                             

                            Here's what I had to do...

                             

                            FIRST, THANK YOU to post #6 and the most recent post for teaching me the select all based on fill color.  Whew!!

                             

                            Then I set it to a pantone black.  BUT, it still didn't transfer well over into PS.  So I went back and made the pantone black to the following:

                             

                            "the most common "rich black" contains percentages of all 4 inks: 63C, 52M, 51Y 100K. This particular variant owes it's popularity to Adobe Photoshop' from http://marvin.mrtoads.com/richblack_vs_plainblack.html, which looks like it's been around since the dawn of the internet. LOL

                             

                            And after THAT, it transfered over into PS with all black...oops, except for the writing, which must have been in a different version of black fill, so going to fix it.

                             

                            THANK YOU ALL so much for your help!!

                             

                            -Kristie

                            • 11. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                              tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                              And wade, thank you for the "correct appearance of black" in the preferences note.  That helps SO MUCH since I can only tell what's wrong by bringing it over into PS.

                               

                              I screwed up on the helpful/correct answer...  #6 is "correct" and wade and most recent are "helpful".  And ALL were helpful in one manner or another. Thanks again...

                              • 12. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                                Jacob Bugge MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                For my part you are welcome, Kristie.

                                 

                                Oh, and a new suggestion:

                                 

                                What about creating a customized rich black based upon the colours already there, by doubling or tripling the rich black paths and giving them the colours (bottom to top):

                                 

                                1) PANTONE 4645C (brown skin colour, corresponds to 0C, 34M, 47Y, 30.5K),

                                2) Possibly PANTONE Cool Grey 11 (dark grey skin colour, corresponds to 0C, 0M, 07Y, 71K), maybe unnecessary,

                                3) PANTONE Black or PANTONE Process Black (corresponds to 0C, 0M, 07Y, 100K)?

                                 

                                This would still replace 3 process colours by one Pantone and just extend the use of the colour(s) already used.

                                 

                                In many casses it does not matter much, but especially in the absence of Cyan in the (other) colours used, the use of customized rich blacks, reflecting the actual colours used, may give a finer and more consistent colouring. The Cyan may give the black a bluish tinge that stands out/makes it overly hard.This applies especially to cases when the black parts have  a certain width.

                                • 13. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                                  tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                                  ok, I really need some more help with this.  I've been able to fix almost all of my 30-ish files, converting them to CMYK with rich black so they print properly...

                                   

                                  But I have two that continue to give me fits (I've been away for a few weeks and am just trying to get back and finish this now).

                                   

                                  I'm going to attach the two files, hoping that someone can open them up and understand what's going on.  I think it has something to do with objects versus paths versus whatever -- and I just don't understand it.

                                   

                                  I would like all the blacks to be rich black based on CMYK > 63, 52, 51, 100.  That formula has worked well with my other designs.  In the two designs I'm going to attach, there are "trouble" areas where I just can't figure out how to access the black that creates the object, path or whatever...  So I just can't change it.  I'm hoping you guys can help.

                                   

                                  On the "naughty" file, it's just the "stroke" around the letters that make up "life is labs" -- but it's not a stroke, I think it's a path that I livepainted...

                                   

                                  Then on the "back" file, I cannot change the majority of the black that creates the line art for the head -- except for one little path/object on the left side near the chin.  These designs were created for me by an artist, so I just don't know my way around them.

                                   

                                  Thanks in advance for your help.  I really appreciate any instruction, guidance and help you can provide.

                                   

                                  -Kristie

                                  • 14. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                                    Nat Sands

                                    Hi Kristie -

                                     

                                    Try selecting art and going to 'Object/Expand' -

                                     

                                    Hope this helps -

                                     

                                    Nat

                                    • 15. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                                      tiddlediddlebug Level 1

                                      Nat, you are my savior...

                                       

                                      So, if you have a second, what exactly did that do?  Apparently broke it down into it's strokes/fills, etc.  But how did it get locked up?  Thanks so much for your help.

                                       

                                      -Kristie

                                      • 16. Re: Making all blacks rich black in AI?
                                        Jacob Bugge MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        Kristie,

                                         

                                        In your (unexpanded) artwork (back.ai) you have 3 Clipping Masks and many paths, including:

                                         

                                        1) Stroke/no fill paths with CMYK 74.9/67.8/67.1/90.2,

                                        2) Fill/no stroke paths with CMYK 74.9/67.8/67.1/90.2,

                                        3) Fill/no stroke paths with CMYK 0/0/0/100,

                                        4) Stroke/no fill paths with CMYK 0/0/0/0,

                                        5) Fill/no stroke paths with CMYK 0/0/0/0.

                                         

                                        Most of the letters contain both fill/no stroke and stroke/no fill paths. Further, most of the letters are made by at least 6 different paths, 2 strokes paths and 4 filled paths, namely 2 pairs

                                         

                                        If you use the Direct Selection Tool and click at the edge of the first L and then Select>Same>Stroke Color, you will get access to all 1), including parts of the dog heads (cheek), so you can change them.

                                         

                                        If you use the Direct Selection Tool and click in the middle of the first L and then Select>Same>Fill Color, you will get access to all 2) so you can change them.

                                         

                                        If you use the Direct Selection Tool and click in the middle of the stroke of the first doghead and then Select>Same>Fill Color, you will get access to all 3) so you can change them.

                                         

                                        If you use the Direct Selection Tool and click in the middle of the first doghead, and then Select>Same>Stroke Color, you will get access to all 4), which you can delete. After that, you can Select>Same>Fill Color,to get access to all 5), ShiftClick on all the dogheads to excempt them, and delete the rest.