38 Replies Latest reply on Oct 26, 2010 6:18 AM by Steve Grisetti

    Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI

    Lingyaiyai

      I just installed the trial version of Premiere Elements 8. I wanted to test its ability to render high-quality avi files.

       

      I took two, 7-second avi clips, put them into the timeline, and added a simple dissolve transition between them.

       

      Under the Share section, I chose Uncompressed AVI as the format.

       

      I am able to play in Windows Media Player uncompressed avi files produced by other video editing packages; I wanted to see how Premiere Element's uncompressed AVI files compare.

       

      As my clips lacked audio, I specified that audio should not be rendered. I rendered the clips. It created a large (apx 400 mb) file. When I tried to play it in Windows Media Player (v11) I first saw a message saying, "Looking for codec" (or words to that effect), followed shortly after by a message saying "Codec acquired". But then I got a message saying that the file was unplayable, and offered on online Microsft link to solve the problem. It took me to an audio-related page which seemed to be of no particular help.

       

      So I tried rendering as uncompressed audio again, this time specifying that audio should also be rendered (even there is no audio with my clips). I changed the sample rate from 48 khz to 44 khz, a rate I usually use with Windows Media Player.

       

      When I tried to view the result in Windows Media Player, I got no error messages. Instead I just got a black screen. I could see that a file was playing (the navigation slider at the bottom was moving, and the time counter was progressing) , but there was no image.

       

      What might I be doing wrong?

       

      I've used Premiere Elements 1 for years. But if version 8 cannot handle this very simple task, I won't buy it.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          You might be right. But then again, what is the value of outputting uncompressed AVI? If your source files are compressed (DV-AVIs from a miniDV camcorder), you're not going to improve them by outputting them as uncompressed.

           

          In fact, even if you put an uncompressed AVI into Premiere Elements, the program uses a DV-AVI workflow so that video will be rendered as DV-AVIs before the program re-renders them as "uncompressed" AVIs.

           

          This uncompressed workflow does have value in some higher end programs, like After Effects, in which uncompressed video can carry alpha information and the like. But there is simply no value to be gained by outputting uncompressed from Premiere Elements. You'll just get a big (over 1 gig per minute) video file!

           

          I know that doesn't entirely address your issue. But, if you plan to work with uncompressed and getting it in a format Windows Media Player can read is a dealbreaker, I'm not sure this $100 program is the solution you're looking for anyway.

          • 2. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
            Lingyaiyai Level 1

            Steve,

             

            Thanks for getting back.

             

            Three points:

             

            1) To answer your question -- I am not trying to improve the quality of the clips, I am trying to preserve it. The two files in question were uncompressed AVIs produced by a compositing package (CompositeLab Pro). When viewed in Media Player, they look great, like film. But when I arrange them in Premiere, adding no FX (except the simple transition) and export the arrangement as compressed Microsoft AVI, they look really bad -- very pixely, obviously video, poorly done. All the time setting up the green screen shoot and compositing is wasted, it looks that bad. I want something which will look good on a DVD played on a big screen or projector, as I enter amateur competitions.

             

            2) Why would Elements offer the uncompressed AVI render function if a) it is of no use b) it doesn't work (i.e. the files can't be played?)

             

            3) Judging by the number of your posts, you seem quite experienced. Could you suggest a non-bank-breaking editing package? I don't need loads of effects, templates, HD, etc; what I need is something which can render high-quality mini-DV input files as high-quality output files, and is reasonably stable.  I can deal with the large file sizes (each of those 7-second clips were 300 mb); but I need quality preserved. I am now doing a lot of comparsions with my own packages and trial versions. The output quality ranking, starting with the best so far, is: 1) Magix Movie Edit Pro 15 (I'd go with them but their basic dissolve transition is awful)  2). Cyberlink PowerDirector 3). Premier Elements 1 4) Corel (ex-Ulead) VideoStudio Pro X2  5) Premiere Elements -- unknown, can't play the files.

             

            I am running out of options. I suppose the last three to try would be Vegas, Pinnacle and Edius -- unless you have other suggestions...

            • 3. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              I'd say your best bet would be Premiere Pro CS4. At around $700, I'm not sure if it would "break the bank" or not -- but I'm sure it will give you the results you're looking for.

               

              If it's out of your league,  you may want to check out Sony Vegas Pro -- also a professional level program but for a few hundred dollars less.

               

              Although you've clearly done your research, so don't let me sway you. If you're getting the results you like from these consumer programs, then you should stick with them.

               

              But, in my never-humble opinion , you're trying to do professional level work with professional level video sources. It might make sense to spring for a professional level product that will preserve the integrity of your original files with no compromises.

               

              Meantime, let's see if Tony or Hunt, a couple of other forum regulars, have any input here.

              • 4. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                Lingyaiyai Level 1

                Thanks Steve. I didn't realise Premiere was that different to Elements -- I thought they had the same basic "engine", but with Elements having a more simplified interface. Could I really expect much better rendering from Premiere?

                 

                One thing I worry about is "cost creep". After shelling out for a very large chroma cloth, I discovered I needed a special stand for it, and special lights for it; having bought them, I then found I needed special lights for the actor (ok, ok, I'm obvioulsy an amatuer feeling his way here);

                 

                I then found my staple editors Elements v01 and Ulead VSPX2 (which actually can do a lot good stuff) couldn't clean up the green spill, so I bought FXHome's Composite Lab Pro (which I must say is amazing, and not that expensive). It composites and renders brilliantly.

                 

                But now, toarrange my clips into a film, I'm stuck at this rendering problem. None of the programs I listed are entirely staisfactory on this score.

                 

                So, ok, I could perhaps shell out for Premiere; but then, well, my computer is an ancient relic (i.e. one year old; a dual 2-Pentium laptop, I thinnk 1.66ghz with 2 gb RAM); I worry that the latest version of Premiere or whatever is going to be too much for it.... which means new laptop, which means Windows 7, which means new OS problems, and reinstalling all software... I really don't want to be swept over that waterfall just to be able to find an editor which doesn't muck up my clips. I can deal with slow rendering times etc, I just want quality preserved.

                 

                Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

                • 5. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  Well, the 30-day trial is free and fully functional. And it might work well enough on your machine that you can get by without upgrading.

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    For critical Export/Transfer, I use the Lagarith (free) Lossless CODEC, however I am transferring these files to AE, or similar, for additional work, and not trying to play in WMP, or any other software player. I am on PrPro 2.0 and AE 7. With the enhanced Adobe Dynamic Link in CS4.1, I would probably dispense with this, in favor of pure DL instead.

                     

                    I work with a lot of 3D animations from other artists, and usually specify their output to me as .MOV [Animation]. These are beautiful and work perfectly in PrPro along with my DV-AVI files. There is a new .MOV CODEC out, PhotoJPG, that is getting very high marks, and many say that it's better than .MOV [Animation], but I have yet to experience it.

                     

                    With the DV-AVI vs Uncompressed, I have to admit that I cannot see the difference on either my NTSC Calibrated Sony CRT monitor, or on my Zenith 60". I briefly explored Uncompressed, when working on VHS tapes to digital, in hopes of getting the ultimate result. There were just no differences, so I opted for the DV-AVI route. I later tested with miniDV tape Captures using a stand-alone program, and agian, I could not tell a difference. For me, file size was not an issue, nor was processing horsepower, as I have plenty of both to burn. I just could not find the difference. Maybe I am less critical with my video, than I am with my still images?

                     

                    The first thing that I would do is look carefully at the tested DV-AVI Export settings. There are not many, so it a pretty easy Export to use, unlike some others. Still, there are settings like Recompress (at least in PrPro), that can affect output.

                     

                    That's about all that I can think of.

                     

                    Sorry that I do not have anything definitive to add.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      My Premiere Elements 8 tryout expired recently, and I have not yet gotten a purchased version. So, I am cannot explore this issue for you first hand.

                       

                      I am running on recollection right now. Have you looked at Share/Personal Computer/AVI under Microsoft AVI with compression = None?

                       

                      By the way what are all your settings under Uncompressed AVI?

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                        Lingyaiyai Level 1

                        A.T.,

                         

                        I had been going to Share / Personal Computer / AVI / "Uncompressed AVI"; the codec was called "V210".

                         

                        Since I got your answer, I tried Share / Personal Computer / AVI / "MS AVI" with the codec = "None". It did play on WMP, but looked bad.

                         

                        Then I tried Share / Personal Computer / AVI / "Uncompressed AVI"; the codec was called "UYVY". This played on WMP and was the best of the bucnh, but still degraded the original.

                        ------------------------

                        Mr Wine Snob,

                         

                        are you speaking from your experience with Premiere Pro, or rather with Premiere Elements? Assuming I could find the codecs you mention, how could I use them with Elements? Is there a folder somewhere wheree I could drop them, which would casuse them to show up as new codec options within Premiere?

                        -------------------

                         

                        Your answers have got me thinking that maybe my question is wrong.

                         

                        In my experience, editors' monitor view tend to mislead a bit about quality; things sometimes look better on a high quality preview screen than the resulting rendred file does. So I had used Winows Media Player as a supposedly objective reference; and in my experience, if it looks good as an AVI played on WMP, it will look good on a DVD or on youtube..And at the end of the day, that's all I want -- it needs to look good on a dvd or youtube, not necc. on WMP.

                         

                        Maybe I should find another way of judging whwther the DVD will look good (apart from actually burning them)? Would an MPG codec be a better predictor?

                         

                        Sorry for all these questions ... just trying to hack my way through this sudden undergrorth of complexity...

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                          Lingyaiyai Level 1

                          Thanks for taking the time. Please see my follow up questions in my response to AT Romano's post.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            are you speaking from your experience with Premiere Pro, or rather with Premiere Elements? Assuming I could find the codecs you mention, how could I use them with Elements? Is there a folder somewhere wheree I could drop them, which would casuse them to show up as new codec options within Premiere?

                             

                            I use PrPro for about 95% of my work. I have PrE 4, and primarily use it for smaller Projects, converting files that PrPro does not like, or handle properly and as a test for articles in this forum. For my work with AfterEffects, I am always going from PrPro and back for final output - usually to DVD-Video, or occasionally to streaming content.

                             

                            As for Lagarith, it is a download/install at the system level. PrPro sees it and uses it. I'll fire up PrE 4 and tell you whether it sees it too. I would assume that it does, but will check to clarify for you.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Yes, PrE 4 will allow Export>MS AVI>Lagarith, as I thought I remembered. Here is the Settings dialog screen, under the Video Properties section on the dialog screen:

                               

                              Lagarith_CODEC_Export_01.jpg

                               

                              Now, I have never tried playing a Lagarith Lossless file on the PC, so I do not know how any of my various players will handle that. Will test with WMP V10, VLC Player, QT Player Pro 7.5.5 and MediaPlayer Classic HC, and report back.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Here are my player tests:

                                 

                                WMP (Version 11, and not 10, as stated earlier) - played smoothly and with full Audio and Video on 1680 x 1050 Full Screen

                                MediaPlayer Classic HC - played smoothly and with full Audio and Video on 1680 x 1050 Full Screen

                                VLC Player - Audio only, no Video

                                QT Player Pro 7.5.5 - would not play, as an unlisted add-on was needed. Nothing looked promising from the Apple site and I already have most

                                 

                                This test footage is a mix of stills (sized .PSD's from Photoshop), DV-AVI footage, Titles and tons of Effects, plus compositing (no Green Screen Keying).

                                 

                                Time to Export to Lagarith about the same as DV-AVI, even with the Effects. Timeline was not pre-Rendered (speeds things up in some cases in PrPro, but think that PrE totally ignores all Render files). As this is a short test Timeline, it's hard to judge the total time to Export vs other CODEC's 'cause it's so quick.

                                 

                                Note: to be certain that you are pointed to the right place, this is Export and not Share. MS AVI is chosen, and then the settings are made for Lagarith. It took me a moment, as I went to Share and could not find the settings that I was looking for. As I stated, I use PrPro so much more, and I still have to poke around PrE to do almost everything.

                                 

                                This would be something that I would explore. It might not yield the quality that you are looking for, but I like the results and the only overhead is the file sizes being larger, but still short of AVI Uncompressed.

                                 

                                Obviously, I am viewing Interlaced Footage on a Progressive PC monitor (through an nVidia GeForce 8800m GTX - 512MB w/ latest drivers, as of Oct. 22, 09). I did not De-Interlace for this test.

                                 

                                Hope that something helps, and please report your personal observations,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                  Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                  Hunt, you are blowing me away with both your genorousity with your time, and the depth of your help. Thanks very much.

                                   

                                  Now I want to check this out myself -- so two questions:

                                   

                                  1) the codec is Lagarith Lossless Video Codec 1.3.20 :, yes?

                                   

                                  As in, the free one found here?  http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Lagarith_Lossless_Video_Codec.htm

                                   

                                  The site says you just unzip it, right click and select install --  that's i, it should then appear as a list of available codecs. Is that your understanding too? (Sorry, never installed a codec before)

                                   

                                  2) How do you export (as opposed to Sharing)? I've opened my project and I do see File / Export, but Export is greyed out....

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                    Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                    Uhm, Hunt (or anyone)...

                                     

                                    In the meantime, I just thought of some questions...

                                     

                                    -- If I install this Lagarith codec, will WMP be able to use it as well for playback?

                                    -- Will I be able to create a PAL DVD from a Lagarith file?

                                    -- Is Lagairth one of the sub-varieties of AVI, which Youtube should be able to handle?

                                     

                                    Regarding how to Export (vs Share) -- still no luck, tried Select All in the project and then going to File / Export. but Export was still grayed out. Searched for "Export" on the online help, got a zillion hits, none of which seemed relevant...

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      I do not know about the FreeCODEC's site. I had linked to the developer's site upthread.

                                       

                                      From that site, I downloaded and installed the 1316.zip version. It seems that there might now be a newer version available.

                                       

                                      For Export, go to File>Export (not the Share Tab), and choose AVI in the Settings dialog screen. You should get something really close to my screen-cap (note: that's PrE 4). Then, one is able to use the drop-down menus to navigate to the Lagarith CODEC.

                                       

                                      Hope that this helps,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                                        -- If I install this Lagarith codec, will WMP be able to use it as well for playback?

                                         

                                        It does on my system with WMP 11.

                                         

                                        -- Will I be able to create a PAL DVD from a Lagarith file?

                                         

                                        This will probably be up to your authoring software. For Adobe Encore, I Export as a DV-AVI and let Encore do the Automatic Transcode to MPEG-2, the format/CODEC of DVD-Video. One can also Export as a 100% DVD-compliant MPEG-2 (using bit-budgeting to adjust the bit-rate/size) and Import that into Encore. I doubt that most authoring apps can handle Lagarith, but it's really for transfer. DVD-Video is very specific in what is used, and it must be Transcoded to MPEG-2. BD is different in that it can handle MP4/H.264, as well as HD MPEG.

                                         

                                        -- Is Lagairth one of the sub-varieties of AVI, which Youtube should be able to handle?

                                         

                                        I do not know, but highly doubt it. IIRC, YouTube will only handle certain formats and will then re-encode these as suits them.

                                         

                                        Regarding how to Export (vs Share) -- still no luck, tried Select All in the project and then going to File / Export. but Export was still grayed out. Searched for "Export" on the online help, got a zillion hits, none of which seemed relevant...

                                         

                                        Just give focus to the Timeline (click the Timeline). Do not Select anything. File>Export should now be active.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                          Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                          Thanks again. I'm still not able to access "Export" (I think v4 and v8 are different in this regard) but I did find Lagarith down there in the Share settings and used it.

                                           

                                          It is a huge improvement over what I'd been using ... but there is still some distortion, despite it supposedly being a lossless codec.Is there anyting else I've overlooked which maybe I should tweak to improve perfiormance?

                                           

                                          I did notice however that one of the clips look better when rendered using Lagarith (by the way the codec I got is a few versions fresher than yours) in Ulead than when using the same codec in Elements, while for another (which contained a zoom-in) the opposite was true. So I guess I should try using the Lagarith codec with a few other packages, and see if there's any improvement over what I get from Elements.

                                           

                                          So many permutations of variables to try!  Argh. Sometimes you really gotta suffer for art's sake.

                                           

                                          By the way, which version of Premier are you using?

                                           

                                          Hunt you've been amazing, thanks a lot. If you think of anyting else let me know. Meanwhile, have a good weekend,

                                           

                                          Ken

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Thanks again. I'm still not able to access "Export" (I think v4 and v8 are different in this regard) but I did find Lagarith down there in the Share settings and used it.

                                             

                                            Ken,

                                             

                                            You could be correct on this. Unfortunately, I cannot help, but ATR, or Steve Grisetti, should be able to, as they have extensively worked with PrE 8. I have no experience beyond the vicarious details posted here.

                                             

                                            Besides Lagarith Lossless, the free HuffYUV gets very high marks. I have used it from within PrPro, and liked the results. I just grab Lagarith first, and for no real, logical reason.

                                             

                                            It is a huge improvement over what I'd been using ... but there is still some distortion, despite it supposedly being a lossless codec.Is there anyting else I've overlooked which maybe I should tweak to improve perfiormance?

                                             

                                            Can you describe this "distortion" in some detail. Is the footage pixelating, colors shifting, something else? I've not found any degredation to any footage, using Lagarith. Also, where are you seeing this distortion, i.e. WMP, a burned DVD RW on a set-top player?

                                             

                                            I did notice however that one of the clips look better when rendered using Lagarith (by the way the codec I got is a few versions fresher than yours) in Ulead than when using the same codec in Elements, while for another (which contained a zoom-in) the opposite was true. So I guess I should try using the Lagarith codec with a few other packages, and see if there's any improvement over what I get from Elements.

                                             

                                            This is odd, but remember that I always Export from PrPro, so maybe I would see differences, were I to use other NLE's for this task?

                                             

                                            So many permutations of variables to try!  Argh. Sometimes you really gotta suffer for art's sake.

                                             

                                            I could not agree more. For me, it's even worse, as I get handed all sorts of source footage, over which I have almost zero control and then have to create "art" from it. This throws in variables to the Nth degree.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                              Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                              (Hunt, Your comments are precded by a "--")

                                               


                                              --You could be correct on this. Unfortunately, I cannot help, but ATR, or Steve Grisetti, should be able to, as they have extensively worked with PrE 8. I have no experience beyond the vicarious details posted here.

                                              No big deal – I think by accessing the codec via Share I’m accomplishing the same as I would by accessing it via Export (though who knows… can’t seem to find anything in the documentation about the difference between those two)


                                              -- Besides Lagarith Lossless, the free *http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/huffyuv.html*

                                               

                                              I discovered this around two hours ago. It is good though I would give Lagarith the edge.

                                               


                                              -- Can you describe this "distortion" in some detail. Is the footage pixelating, colors shifting, something else? I've not found any degredation to any footage, using Lagarith. Also, where are you seeing this distortion, i.e. WMP, a burned DVD RW on a set-top player?

                                              I’m seeing it in WMP – the only place I’ve examined results – I use it as my “objective” reference as I’ve found it’s a pretty good indicator of how things will look on DVD / Youtube.

                                               

                                              As for the footage itself: the basic underlying video clip is of an actor in front of a green screen shot with a consumer miniDV camcorder (but not a bad one as those go – a Sony with Carl Zeiss glass) under very good lighting conditions. The clip was composited against a b&w bitmap of a desert highway. The keying and compositing was done in CompositeLab Pro, where I also desaturated the actor. I set the software to progressive scan. He’s a white guy (scaled down in CL Pro to about 20% of his normal size) kneeling in front of a backdrop of some scary, almost black clouds. He’s not moving much except that he’s singing with some facial expression, so his face moves and head bobs a bit. It was exported as an uncompressed AVI. It looks very good, like film.

                                               

                                              As for the degradation which Elements it introduces, using the Lagarith codec -- I’m seeing a slight white twinkly halo around his head (something I worked hard to eliminate in Composite Lab), while on his face is what I’d call gray twinkling – slightly boxy pixels changing from one shade of gray to another. Both artifacts seem to correspond to his movements….Mind you, these are greatly reduced using this codec compared to others / no compression. So it was certainly a good steer. But because I’ve seen how good the original clip is, and am a bit … well, anal, I will keep plugging (no pun intended) – I want to try Vegas, Edius and perhaps Premiere. Will let you know if I reach any breakthroughs.

                                               

                                                -- I could not agree more. For me, it's even worse, as I get handed all sorts of source footage, over which I have almost zero control and then have to create "art" from it. This throws in variables to the Nth degree.

                                              I can imagine. Clients really suck sometime.

                                               

                                              Cheers

                                               

                                              Ken

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand better.

                                                 

                                                If you do the PrPro trial remember that it will do NOTHING with anything MPEG. That is the limitation of the trial. Also, if you later buy PrPro, you must first uninstall the trial, run the Adobe Clean Script CS4 (I'd do this a couple of times and then maybe a Registry cleaner, like CCleaner), BEFORE you install your full-paid version. It's a bit of work, but if you know the proper sequence, you'll be OK.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                  kevmiami

                                                  I whole heartedly support the recommendation to go to Sony Vegas.  I purchased it when it was just Vegas and then migrated to to preimere elements, but I wanted something easier to use.  I still love PSE7/8 and it's very convienent to have the photo and video software linked, but PRE7's rendering just plain sucks!!  I can run the the pro version of Vegas on my Dell Dual core, but PSE7 crashes and hangs repeatedly, depending on output selection and/or it's really, really  difficult to figure out which setting will give you decent results, depending on the your goals.

                                                   

                                                  I am upgrading to PS8, but without clear evidence of in PRE8 rendering - just more money for same product - if you can't output easily, what's the point?  I would also try the trial of Vegas' low-budget video software; lots of the same features, but not sure on ouptut options.

                                                   

                                                  Cheers, Kevin.

                                                   

                                                  http://photos-forever.net

                                                   

                                                  Taking the Darkroom out of the Dark Ages!

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                    Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                                    Kevin,

                                                     

                                                    Thanks a lot for that. Funnily enough, this weekend I continued with a lot of comparison rendering tests with some trial versions of various packages. Vegas Pro 8 was the clear winner in terms of output quality, ease of use and stability.

                                                     

                                                    In all cases the Lagarith Lossless Codec was the best codec -- thank you Wine Snob, again, for that steer.

                                                     

                                                    PE8's rendering wasn't as good and the package seemed unstable.It also seems a bit bloated.

                                                     

                                                    I reckon the case is closed on this one. Thanks Kevin (let's hope Adobe doesn't boot us off the forum) and everyone else who contributed.

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                      kevmiami Level 1

                                                      Just a quick head's up, PRE7/8 works really nice for stills.  Vegas has always been a video program, so I think it's handling of stills is a little tricker to use.  I've just abandoned PRE7 recently to go back to Vegas, so I have to climb the learning curve again.  There is a program called the Assistant which plugs into Vegas (about $120 - again with the cost creep, right) that is suppossed to make it easier to work with stills if that is your bag.  It also has a trial.  I purchased, but just have not had a chance to play with it.  Vegas does accept PSD files directly into the timeline - very cool.  Happy editing, Kevin.

                                                       

                                                      http://photos-forever.net

                                                       

                                                      Taking the Darkroom out of the Dark Ages!

                                                      • 24. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                        Lingyaiyai Level 1

                                                        Kevin, while we;re on the subject -- is there an ideal format for still used in Vegas? I'd never given it too much thought.... just assumed max quality JPEGs were ok. Any thoughts?

                                                        • 25. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                          mten23

                                                          Why is my export button grayed anyway.  Rendering the timeline does not clear it.  In 7, Export just allowed you to export a file with a number of options.  Why is Export gray and what am I doing wrong.,

                                                          • 26. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            Mten23,

                                                             

                                                            The only reason that I can think of for Export to be greyed out would be that your Timeline does not have focus. Click on the Timeline and then look at File>Export. You should have all that you need.

                                                             

                                                            Good luck,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                              mten23

                                                               

                                                              What program are you in and what is the location of that grayed "Export" that you are facing?

                                                               

                                                              I suspect that you are in Premiere Elements 8, have a video on the Timeline, and are in the File Menu, seeing a grayed out Export.

                                                               

                                                              Reason: There is no more File Menu/Export/Movie in Premiere Elements 8. See Share/Personal Computer/AVI and its presets.The only thing that you are going to do with File Menu/Export in Premiere Elements 8 is to save a Title.

                                                               

                                                              Please let me know if I guessed right.

                                                               

                                                              ATR

                                                              • 28. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                Hunt,

                                                                 

                                                                Not in Premiere Elements 8.....you will not.

                                                                 

                                                                ATR

                                                                • 29. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  ATR,

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks for updating me on PrE 8. Ah, I love these little changes... NOT!

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  At least I learned something new here. Hope that your comments help the OP.

                                                                   

                                                                  Appreciated,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 30. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                    Hobby Guy Bill

                                                                    Wow lots of "STUFF" in this string!  Let's get back to the original question (as well as the last question).  If I purchase a car with a keyless entry I expect it to work.  Yes, I can unlock the door with the key, however, I paid for the keyless entry.  Some are saying the File>Export has been replaced with the Share feature.  I have tested it, and yes, it works.  I currently have a case open with Adobe and they have not said that yet.  So that begs the question (and this is a SERIOUS question)  Do the Adobe folks really not know the feature has been disabled or are the rest of you guessing that it has?  If Adobe has disabled the feature in the File menu, why didn't they remove it?  I have had every version of Premiere Elements since version 3 and they have NEVER released a single patch to any of their Elements products!  This is a real issue and the solution often recommended is to upgrade to the "Pro"
                                                                    version.  If someone (including Adobe) cannot come up with a solution to this simple problem I would surely think this has "class action law suit" written all over it.  I paid for a product and it does not function as advertised and apparently so have others!  Does anyone have a REAL reason why the File>Export is grayed out?  Is anyone able to USE File>Export in version 8?

                                                                    • 31. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      As we said, Bill, File/export/movie has been intentionally disabled in version 8 in favor of the Share/Personal Computer options.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                        Hobby Guy Bill Level 1

                                                                        So why don't the people handling my case know that and why is Export still

                                                                        in the File menu?  This doesn't help to build confidence in a product.  It

                                                                        would certainly help if Adobe would release patches to resolve these issues

                                                                        rather than to have people discover them the first week of a release and

                                                                        then have to live with it for 11 months and 30 days until the new release

                                                                        comes out.  It's almost like every release of PE is a beta!

                                                                        • 33. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          Again, I can't help you with rhetorical questions, Bill. I'm just a civilian, like you, helping people on this forum when I can.

                                                                           

                                                                          If you want to contact Adobe (and you should) you'll need to click the Contact button at the top of this page.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                            So why don't the people handling my case know that and why is Export still in the File menu?

                                                                             

                                                                            Bill,

                                                                             

                                                                            I think that both of these are fair questions, but alas, I have no answers for you.

                                                                             

                                                                            Adobe is at work on getting their T/S services back up to speed. They were once about the best in the software business, but with outsourcing, they did lose their way. Even the "suits" in San Jose recognized this and are making changes.

                                                                             

                                                                            As for the File>Export, I wonder the same thing too. After this thread, I will have to change my instructions to people, when they wish to Share their movies. Things change, version to version, but this seems an odd one to me. Though Export from PrPro is now through Adobe Media Encoder (AME) for everything (departure from earlier versions), the locations are still the same - only AME is now a separate program. It can be called from within PrPro, or called from the Desktop. Gone is the old File>Export>Movie, which once resided above File>Export>AME. Still, everything else is in the same place.

                                                                             

                                                                            But, as Steve points out, we're all just users here, and have no more input with Adobe, than you do. Over the decades, I have filed dozens of Feature Requests for several programs, and to date, none has made its way into any of these programs. Still, I do know that Adobe reads them all, and prioritizes these, when working on an update, or a new version. Mine have just been too far down the list.

                                                                             

                                                                            Good luck,

                                                                             

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                            • 35. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                              Hobby Guy Bill Level 1

                                                                              I apologize for being a little brash but contacting Adobe doesn't seem to be

                                                                              helping.  I just find it odd that people here know about this and Adobe

                                                                              doesn't (and they DON'T appear to be listening).  Thanks for the info and

                                                                              support!  Hopefully I will be able to limit my questions to "how-to's"

                                                                              instead of bugs.

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks again!

                                                                              • 36. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                                I just find it odd that people here know about this and Adobe doesn't (and they DON'T appear to be listening).

                                                                                 

                                                                                Actually, they HAVE been listening, and claim to be responding. A recent post by one of the MOD's on the Forum Comments forum was a letter from the president (or a high-ranking VP?), stating that Adobe was going to be bringing both T/S and C/S back in-house.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Going back many years, I ranked Adobe T/S and C/S right near the top. They were slightly below the old WordPerfect (back when they were in Orem, UT, USA), prior to Novell and Corel. They blew all others away in efficiency and knowledge and shared gladly. Alas, things changed and complaceny reined. We'll see if the promises and changes address the problem.

                                                                                 

                                                                                For everything, but installation and registration/Activation issues, I always recommend that people come to these fora and clearly state their problem(s) with full details. Usually, they get help immediately, and very few problems go unresolved. I can only recall a half-dozen problems that no fix has been forthcoming and that's on several Adobe fora - the PGC Error in Encore being one of these few, though it was not for a lack of effort from many.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Now, one of the things that can hamper work on an issues is when a number of folk add-on with "hey, I've got the same problem," and will not give any info on their systems, their Assets or their Projects. After ignored attempts to get key info, I usually comment in this fashion, "come on guys and gals, these are not 'state secrets.' Please let us know about your _____, so we can help you."

                                                                                 

                                                                                Just commenting,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                • 37. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                                  jamesh0039

                                                                                  Hi guys,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Well what a terrific forum

                                                                                  Coming from other systems, I was confused by the File > Export being grayed out, but yeah the Share section becomes intuitive pretty quickly. Reading this thread saved me some frustrations and taught me some valuable knowledge to get me started with this system, so thanks to all.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  OT: Regarding tech support, I can't stress enough how important it is for people to explain the problem/question in clear simple steps. It is even worth restating it right at the end of the thread, so a comprehensive version of the bug is captured in one post. We can't assume all Adobe staff reading the forum are at the same level of expertise, or even have the same level of interest in these particular bugs. If their staff can cut a small snippet of a post, containing a clearly defined issue, they probably have an mechanism to submit such things internally direct to their key developers.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Cheers,

                                                                                  James

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Premiere Elements 8 won't render as uncompressed AVI
                                                                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                    And, of course, most of the people offering help on this forum are NOT Adobe staff.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    We're just fellow users, wanting to help out and advising from our own personal experience.