17 Replies Latest reply on Nov 15, 2009 10:45 AM by the_wine_snob

    Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4

    cultureofdestruction Level 1

      I have a straightforward job to do - putting a couple of hours of footage from MiniDV onto a DVD. This happens to be my first time using CS4 after upgrading from CS3. I've captured the footage from the two MiniDV tapes and performed basic editing on the footage (trimming, fading in and out, a dissolve at the tape change). I noticed that the audio from the first tape drifts gradually out of sync during the first hour, so I unlinked it from the video and used the rate stretch tool to fix it. No big deal, I've had to do that before and it's always worked for me. I also went through and made Encore chapter markers. Then I made some basic chapter select menus in Photoshop. All was good.

       

      Then I went to make the DVD in Encore. I was happy to find the Dynamic Link feature in Premiere - that was a much desired feature on my part! No longer will I have to wait an hour or so for footage to render before I can import it into Encore only to then wait for Encore to transcode it! So I clicked File -> Adobe Dynamic Link -> Send to Encore. Encore loaded and asked me for a project name - I entered one and it promptly crashed. So I tried the same thing again and it crashed. The third time was lucky. However, when I started to look through the video in Encore I noticed two things -

       

      First of all, there is now a crackling/popping noise on the soundtrack throughout. This is not present in the captured AVI files when played either in Premiere Pro, Encore or Windows Media Player, but I burned a test DVD and the noise is on that when played on the DVD player and speaker system in my living room. I have tried exporting the complete timeline as a full AVI and also exporting the audio separately as a WAV and these also have the crackling noise on - basically anything exported from Premiere Pro has this noise, despite the source files being clean.

       

      Secondly, the audio is out of sync again. I know that this is a problem in the source files, but I fixed it in Premiere and it is in sync when viewed in the program monitor. Again, as soon as the video is exported from Premiere Pro, whether to an AVI file or to Encore via dynamic link, the sound is out of sync. I can have Premiere Pro and Encore open side by side and switch between them, playing the same segment over and over again and there is a huge difference despite Encore (supposedly) getting the information from Premiere.

       

      I was supposed to have this done a week ago and I've spent all my spare time this week working on it and getting nowhere because it feels as though the software is just ignoring me. I can not think of any reason why something that I've got exactly how I want it in Premiere would export any different.

       

      Any help?

        • 1. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
          the_wine_snob Level 9
          Any help?

           

          I wish that I had some. Unfortunately, you have done all the things that I would suggest, like Exporting/Importing between PrPro & Encore to take DL out of the mix. Only thing I can think to try would be to Export the Audio as AC3, though WAV would have been my first choice as a test and that failed.

           

          One question: do you have any Audio Effects on the Clips in PrPro? If so, which one(s)?

           

          I've heard of similar with MPEG footage, but never DV-AVI.

           

          The OOS with the Capture troubles me. Is this noticed in camera, when that tape is played? FW Capture is just bits being copied over, so I would assume that there was some sort of issue with the camera, but you basically fixed the OOS, pretty much as I would have.

           

          Odd, and I am otherwise at a loss. I have never encountered this, but then use older versions of both programs, so that does not count for you.

           

          Good luck, and I hope that others will have something to help you,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
            cultureofdestruction Level 1

            Well you have helped in one way - by at least confirming that I've done sufficient troubleshooting!

             

            The only audio effects I have in place are a fade in at the start, out at the end and a couple of volume adjustments (one up, one down, each by just a few decibels) and, of course, the rate stretch tool was used just to shorten the length of the audio enough to get it into sync for the duration of the first hour (the audio is now running at a rate of 100.1%).

             

            I've just checked the tapes and the audio isn't out of sync when played back on the camera. I'll try capturing the footage again. Surely there's no reason audio should drift out of sync when capturing over firewire? As you said, it's just digital data being copied so it either works or it doesn't. I've had this happen before though, a couple of times, when I was using CS3, but a quick fix with the rate stretch tool was all that was required, and when the footage was exported it remained in sync and no noise was added!

             

            I hope I can get this solved because I have a couple of short films to edit which will obviously be much more complicated tasks and I can't afford problems like this. It's got me hunting down my copy of CS3...

            • 3. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Well, those limited Effects should not be an issue. I was anticipated something like Normalization. My thinking there was that maybe the noise was inaudible at a lower level, but then was being raised above the floor.

               

              That tiny bit of Rate Stretch should also not be an issue. Many here use a bit more routinely with no issues. I use a bit of "slip" and "cut & slip" (if the OOS is dynamic), but no one else, that I can recall, has had this issue.

               

              Like you, I'm puzzled by the loss of sync in Capture, and hope that you'll report any progress there.

               

              I know of one person, who has used Rate Stretch on some OOS external Audio, but do not know if he's done this in CS4, or did it back in CS3. Maybe Jim Simon will pop-in and offer his observations and thoughts.

               

              You are wise to address this now, before the major Projects and hope that someone can help you sort it out in time.

               

              BTW - you are on the CS4.1 update, aren't you?

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Culture,

                 

                Either you have a hardware problem or you have messed up during capture. DV material is usually troublefree, but you can try a much better capture tool like Scenalyzer. If that does not solve your problems, tell us more about your hardware and background processes.

                 

                Unlinking is not a solution. There is something else wrong.

                • 5. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  I noticed that the audio from the first tape drifts gradually out of sync during the first hour, so I unlinked it from the video and used the rate stretch tool to fix it. No big deal, I've had to do that before and it's always worked for me.

                   

                  It actually is kind of a big deal.  Audio drift for DV is NOT normal.  Solve that, don't work around it.

                  • 6. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    No longer will I have to wait an hour or so for footage to render before I can import it into Encore only to then wait for Encore to transcode it!

                     

                    That is also not normal.  Encore should not be transcoding previously transcoded assets.  Without Dynamic Link, you either wait to transcode it before import into Encore, or you export a DV AVI and wait while it transcodes within Encore.  It should be one or the other, you should not be waiting twice.  If you are, either there is a problem with your system (very possible given the abnormal audio drift), or you did something wrong somewhere.

                    • 7. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      Encore loaded and asked me for a project name - I entered one and it promptly crashed.

                       

                      Again, not normal.  This is three problems so far that should not be (and I'm only half way through your post!).  I'd seriously consider that your installation may be messed up.

                      • 8. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        there is now a crackling/popping noise on the soundtrack throughout.

                         

                        Number four.

                        • 9. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          I can have Premiere Pro and Encore open side by side and switch between them, playing the same segment over and over again and there is a huge difference despite Encore (supposedly) getting the information from Premiere.

                           

                          Number five.

                           

                          Seriously, think about reinstalling.  None of the above situations should exist.  Something is clearly wrong with your system.

                          • 10. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                            cultureofdestruction Level 1

                            Well I appear to have got to the bottom of it - it seems to have been the rate stretch tool's fault. After taking another look at the timeline outputted in Encore I noticed that the sync and noise problems were only in the first and last sections of the video - the middle part was fine. This was the part I had NOT used the rate stretch tool on as the audio had not needed synching. After going through the footage again and resynching, but this time by cutting small pieces out of the audio and shifting it back and forth, and exporting I now have clean, synched audio. Using the rate stretch tool on any piece of footage again results in the crackling noise upon export, in addition to the rate not having been changed.

                             

                            Interestingly, over the course of the day, I have also gone back and reinstalled CS3 and started the project from scratch. I recaptured the footage from the camera - the audio is in sync when viewed in the camera and when viewed in Premiere's capture window (I sat and watched it during the whole capture process), which, I feel, rules out the camera itself and the firewire connection as causes. However, the newly captured footage was also out of sync. Fixing it again using the rate stretch tool in CS3 produced the same results - my changes to the rate of the audio did not carry through to the exported video, and there was added noise.

                             

                            I realised that the OOS on capture issue is a major problem, and I will look into fixing that. I have no idea what could be causing it though - my data connection appears to be sound as I get 0 dropped frames during capture. But, that aside, I'm obviously having a major issue with both Premiere Pro CS3 and CS4 as they are essentially ignoring my edits upon export - or at least just in the case of the rate stretch tool, as everything else appears to be working. I have used it plenty of times before in CS3 where I've had to sync audio that was recorded from a separate source so I don't know what is wrong now.

                            • 11. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Interesting, and I hope that you can get to the bottom of the Capture issue - that would be the first thing to tackle. I do not remember seeing it, but is there a Matrox card involved in the Capture?

                               

                              Until you can correct the OOS in the Capture (job 1), this ARTICLE might help you get by. Driftin OOS is a bit more work, than fixing static OOS.

                               

                              Good luck, and please report how you solve the Capture issue, as it might help someone else.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                However, the newly captured footage was also out of sync.

                                 

                                At this point, it may be time to look at your hardware, maybe some new drivers are in order, maybe a new sound card.

                                 

                                Or, it may be time to wipe the entire System drive and reinstall everything from the OS on up.

                                 

                                DV should NOT be out of sync.

                                • 13. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Jim,

                                   

                                  I could not be in more agreement. This is an issue that needs addressing.

                                   

                                  That was the reason that I asked about the Matrox card, as something has to be getting in the way of the straight bit-for-bit Capture via FireWire.

                                   

                                  My comments on "fixing" the OOS in PrPro was only to get something out the door, and as a last resort, if the real problem cannot be easily solved.

                                   

                                  You used Matrox for Capture at one time. Was is a problem that you encountered then?

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    I had plenty of problems with Matrox, but DV sync was not one of them.

                                     

                                    I don't see where the OP mentioned using Matrox.  If that is so, it should be pulled and used as Harm's favorite invention - the doorstopper.

                                    • 15. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                      I don't see where the OP mentioned using Matrox.

                                       

                                      You are correct - so far. I am the only one to mention it, and am curious if it could play a role for the OP. If there is no Matrox, then it's a moot point, and my theory blown, but I had to ask, especially as Matrox has caused some Audio issues for others.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                        isntlifeablast

                                        I am having this exact problem on my Mac.

                                        Upon capture, audio which is synced on the DV tape, is amazingly around six seconds ahead of itself on playback.

                                        I then have to re-sync it by unlinking the audio and visual. The audio does not run at a faster or slower rate,

                                        it is just simply out of sync. It is reasonably easily fixed but it is still a huge pain...

                                        This is the case regardless of the camera.

                                         

                                        Can not find any logical reason for this to be the case, and no one knows what I am

                                        talking about. Until they see it, then they are perplexed.

                                         

                                        This must be happening to other users who are not vocal about these problems....

                                        • 17. Re: Audio noise and out of sync in PrPro/Encore CS4
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Because of the nature of a Capture from miniDV via FireWire, this should NOT be happening. That it is in some instances points that there can be a problem, whether it should be happening, or not.

                                           

                                          I've only seen these few instances, and do not see a parallel of, say equipment.

                                           

                                          You're handling the OOS, as I would, but you're correct - it's a pain, and should not be happening. If this is not a problem that is rooted in one's computer, their camera or the connection, I'd expect others to be posting all over the forum. Maybe they just have not found the Adobe forum, but I also do not see instances of this issue on other fora either.

                                           

                                          I wish that I had something to add, but am out of ideas. Maybe others will be quick to help.

                                           

                                          Sorry, but good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                           

                                          PS - if I can find something useful, I'll be sure to add it to this thread. Please do the same.