10 Replies Latest reply on Oct 6, 2010 8:01 AM by Todd_Kopriva

    Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!

    jorg4no

      Everytime time I save my comp, my dual Xeon quad core dell, 12 GB ram, 15.000 rpm, Vista 64, FirePro 7800 needs 10-15 seconds on locing existing frames or more before it can start rendering. It purges the frames that were just in the RAM, and needs to rerender, can only manage a few seconds of RAM previewing at a time.

       

      The OpenGL & multiprocessing is turned of as these options are too flawed to actually work properly (without a computer science degree).

       

      The project window continually freezes up, and overall the performance is a lot poorer compared to the system I upgraded from.

       

      I've read many reports like these; http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/958597#958652 and others here on the forum with people with powerful machines and terrible performance.

       

      It is a serious issue that the basic performance of the product is this riddled with bugs and flaws. Please make sure the core of the program actually works

        • 1. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          And what is it you are actually trying to tell us? If you are looking for help, please be more specific, for everything else please use the proper channels to log complaints, bugs and feature requests. Nobody here gets any kicks out of unproductive moaning and groaning...

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
            jorg4no Level 1

            Firstly I must have wrongly assumed the adobe after effects support forum would be the proper channel for a list of technical issues. Sorry if you dont want that here.

             

            Secondly I find it hard to believe that you dont understand what Im trying say, here it is in shorter terms:

             

            - 10-15 seconds on locing existing frames or more before it can start rendering.

            - Frequent purging of  RAM frames, often in relation to a incremental save.

            - can only manage a few seconds of RAM previewing at a time.

            - The project window continually freezes up

             

            I do seem to get a bit less issues when all files are stored locally, but they are still there. The old computer also had CS4 with the same network connection but on XP. Im wondering if it can be a AE vs. Vista 64 bit issue

             

            Yes, of course I want help, whether its in the form of a setting, patch or a software update I cannot answer. And if its not the place for this please point me in the right direction.

             

            Regards.

            Jorgen Follestad

             

             

            ps. Here is the essence of the link I posted from other people with similar problems. Almost seems like the faster the machine, the worse After effects performs

             

            We've slimmed down the projects with proxies and doing everything quarter rez, and regardless of our memory settings (we've tried everything at this point) we are getting slow renders, weak length of RAM previews, and lots of hanging when a RAM preview is requested. Nothing crashes or hangs indefinitely, but it feels like there's an anchor on these new machines.

             

            We've done our due diligence with cutting off open GL, we've tried having a media cache and not having one, tried so many permutations of the memory settings...starting to go crazy.

             

            We've got two of them with similar symptoms so I don't think its a hardware issue...Does anyone have any ideas?

             

            Current memory settings:

             

            RAM to leave for other applications: 1
            Rending multiple frames simultaneously
            2 GB per CPU
            Slider all the way to Longer RAM Preview (though we've tried everything there)
            Foreground memory: 2.4 GB
            Background memory: 24 GB (4 GB per CPU)
            Actual CPUS used : 6
            CPUs left : 2

            • 3. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

              Jorgen,

               

              I think that Mylenium was just trying to get you to separate your bug reports and feature requests from the questions that you have. The forum is good for answering questions, but it isn't good for filing bug reports and feature requests.

               

              See this post for a breakdown of which communication channels work best for each kind of communication.

              • 4. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                ChrisProsser Adobe Employee

                Hi Jorgen,

                 

                Sorry you are so frustrated with AE. The program works pretty well for a lot of people, but as you've seen, sometimes you can come up against limits that aren't entirely intuitive to workaround.

                 

                Technically this is the 'User to User Forums', anyone is welcome to response to any questions. To officially open a case with Adobe you'll have to use one of the other forums Todd Kopriva mentioned.

                 

                What kind of work are you doing? HD, Film, RED, etc? Are your projects in Floating Point, what file formats are you using? These can all have a big difference as to how to set the knobs to get optimial stability and performance out of AE CS4.

                 

                The big difference you'll get switching from XP (I'm assuming XP32) is that the single process AE can now use all 4GB of your RAM. Previously, XP32 limited it to only 2GB of RAM. Leaving only 1GB for other applications can get tight on a 4GB system. Vista 64 likes to eat up 1GB pretty quickly, which means you can have no other applications running when you use AE. No web browser (this page take 100MB in IE), no mail, nothing. I would recommend changing the amount to leave for other application to 2GB and turn off Render Multiple Frames simultaneously and see what happens.

                 

                --chris

                ae engineering manager

                • 5. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                  jorg4no Level 1

                  Hi Chris, thanks for your reply!

                   

                  I have been using after effects since version 2 or 3 and do consider myself a fan of this great software.

                   

                  But I believe there are some issues with this version that could be ironed out.

                   

                  My system has 12 GB RAM so there should be plenty to go around. I work mainly with HD or SD in 8 bit projects, which should be fairly standard. Multiprocessing I turned off a while ago. The fix I found to work for me now is to store every single file locally. That seems to have sorted out basically all the problems I was having. This works for now but is of couse not optimal for project collaboration.

                   

                  Also I think you should be able to expect great performance out of AE straight out of the box when installed on such a powerful machine.

                   

                  Best regards.

                  Jorgen

                  • 6. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                    ChrisProsser Adobe Employee

                    >>My system has 12 GB RAM so there should be plenty to go around

                     

                    What that might seem intuitive, only about 4GB is available to AE on Windows, and 3GB on the mac. This is why we just announced 64 bit versions of the product in CS5 <http://blogs.adobe.com/keyframes/2009/10/our_next_release_64-bit_native.html>.

                     

                    I'm glad to hear you tracked it down to having the files based on a server, not locally.

                     

                    Can you give me more info to help future versions of AE?

                     

                    -- Kind of file server

                    -- File types

                    -- Size of files (framerate, dimensions, duration)

                    -- Type of network connection (10MB, 100MB, or 1GB ethernet, or a SAN).

                     

                    We have a bunch of customers using SAN's and we work with those in house. We also test using Giga Ethernet onto a couple of different file servers, what you are seeing doesn't happen to everyone across the board, there is something special here that we aren't testing regularly in house.

                     

                    Thanks!

                     

                    --chris

                    • 7. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                      jorg4no Level 1

                      -- Kind of file server

                      Windows 2003 R2

                       

                      -- File types

                      -- Size of files (framerate, dimensions, duration)

                      The problem seems to occur with many different filetypes, for example SD 25 fps, microcosm, still sequences etc

                       

                       

                      -- Type of network connection (10MB, 100MB, or 1GB ethernet, or a SAN).

                      100 MB

                      Im aware the 100mb network is slowing things down a bit, but the program should not freeze as much as its doing

                       

                      Thanks!

                       

                      look forward to CS5

                       

                      Best regards

                      Jorgen

                      • 8. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                        Nikita Volkov

                        It's just amazing how people are willing to spend their time on posting tons of helpless comments on how and where you should post instead of showing a least of attempt to help and speaking on the actual issue.

                         

                        I've faced the problem you're talking about a lot of times with CS4 and have found two actual causes: OpenGL and Audio Hardware setup. Remembering to have OpenGL disabled in preview and having all sound in composition turned off works for me just fine. The second problem can also be solved by tweaking the audio hardware setup but in my case it tends to reset back often and unpredictably ) Maybe because I use external audio device.

                         

                        So as you see this issue is not at all related to actual performance of your system. Yes it's a bug.

                        • 9. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                          Nikita Volkov Level 1

                          Recently I've faced this problem once again and my two previously described methods don't seem to help. So still looking for resolving of the issue here.

                           

                          One thing I've noticed is that it appears on heavy projects with lots of footage and nested comps. It's not the issue for small projects in my case.

                          • 10. Re: Locking existing frames & other bugs!!!
                            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                            The After Effects CS4 (9.0.3) update fixes the "locking existing frames" problem.