15 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2016 12:40 PM by davidpayne1981

    Surround sound ASIO fixed

    Terrachild Level 1

       

       

      I didn't see any posts specifically mentioning how to get surround sound working out of Premiere without an expensive sound card, so here is a successful method.

       

      Problem: You have integrated audio on your motherboard, and it doesn't come with ASIO drivers.  So you select WDM as the driver in Premiere, Soundbooth, or Audition.  It works fine, that is until you try and output 5.1 audio. 

       

      Solution: ASIO4ALL, website: http://www.asio4all.com/http://www.asio4all.com/

       

       

      Note:  I'll focus on Premiere, because that is where I originally troubleshooted this, but the same goes for the other Adobe products that use sound.

       

      I have a high end motherboard from EVGA, and it comes with Realtek HD audio.  It features 7.1 surround sound (8 Channel), sampling rates up to 192 khz, and 32 Bit output up to 192 khz.  Not Bad, but not great because it only seems to sample at 16 bit.  Remember when 16 Bit CD quality sound was the standard.....those were the days.

       

      If you create a 5.1 audio project in Premiere, mix all your tracks, use the surround sound mixer to place the "puck" where you want the sound coming from, and play it, you only get 2 channels out.  Even if you have a surround sound system attached to your computer.  By the way,  I highly recommend the Logitech Z-5500 system.  A bit pricey, but the quality is awesome.  The problem is, Premiere Pro doesn't find any ASIO drivers, so you're stuck with WDM.  Well, WDM only gives stereo output.

       

      The beauty of ASIO4ALL is that it doesn't change any drivers in your system, it only launches when you start an application that has ASIO4ALL set as the driver.  Moreover, It bypasses all the windows gobblygook, and improves latency so you can get rid of the "latency-echo" if you're playing and recording at the same time.  It also lets you adjust "Latency Compensation" in it's pop-up settings window.  The only drawback I can see is, because it latches right on to the hardware, ignoring windows, it won't let multiple applications use the audio hardware at the same time.  But that is by design. It's really a feature.

       

      After you install ASIO4ALL, go to Premiere > Edit > Preferences> Audio Hardware, and select ASIO4ALL as the default device.  Then click on "ASIO Settings", and ASIO4ALL will launch and show you what audio hardware you have available.  If you have surround sound you should see something like "Out: 8x 44.1-192khz, 32bit."  Just make sure it is enabled.

       

      Now go to Premiere > Edit > Preferences> Audio Output Mapping, and you should magically see all your available output channels.  Mine shows 8.

       

      One last note:  Premiere by default seems to use the L,R,LS,RS,C,LFE arrangement output order.  This isn't really standard, so you'll probably need to change it to L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS to get the sound to play on your audio hardware correctly.  Just re-arrange the speaker assignment squares to the correct order.

       

      To facilitate your surround testing, I've attached an audio file that plays 5.1 audio, one channel at a time.  You'll hear a voice saying the speaker position the sound should be coming from.   It is in .ac3 format, and should play in Premiere Pro, and the VLC media player.

       

      Update:  I tried to upload it, but the website reported back "The content type of this attachment is not allowed."

      Holy cow Adobe, we can't even upload an .ac3 file!!!

      Okay, fine.  Here is the same 5.1 surround sound test file in wave format.....ooops it's too big, it exceeds the 5.0 MB upload limit.

      Now I'm frustrated......Adobe....Why I ought to...... (3 stooge reference.)

      If you want the .ac3 file, send me a message with your email address, and I'll try and send it to you.

       

      Hope it works for you.

       

       

      PS See my other post  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/511930, to convert your mixed 5.1 audio to the DVD standard AC3 file that Encore wants, without ponying up for that SurCode Plug-in.

      Adobe, give me a break, $300!!!

        • 1. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Thank you for posting. I recommend ASIO4ALL with many ASIO issues. It has fixed the vast majority of these. This has been especially useful on the Audition forum, where people are using some pretty esoteric equipment.

           

          Only caveat that I can think of is to make sure that ASIO4ALL is set in all programs that edit Audio.

           

          to convert your mixed 5.1 audio to the DVD standard AC3 file that Encore wants, without ponying up for that SurCode Plug-in.

          Adobe, give me a break, $300!!!


          Actually, Adobe does get you a break. If you purchase the Minnetonka Audio SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in from within PrPro, you get a discount over what it costs from Minnetonka Audio. Also, the majority of the cost is the licensing from DD. Minnetonka makes very little on that plug-in, and Adobe makes zero.

           

          To purchase from within PrPro, one does File>Export>Adobe Media Encoder and then they choose the AC3 DD 5.1 SS from the Audio specs dialog screen. A user gets 3 free usages, and they can then purchase it. I think that it's the Options, or maybe the Settings button (forget the exact name now), that brings up the Minnetonka Audio SurCode screen, where you can get your discount of ~US$50.

           

          Good luck, and I'm heading to your 5.1 SS article now,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
            Terrachild Level 1

            If you use this technique, you may notice that the Capture window is black while you're using ASIO4ALL as a hardware driver.  If you're like me, and you only need ASIO4ALL while you are working with 5.1 audio, there's no need leave it as the default driver all the time.  Select WDM if you're only doing 2 channel audio, or if you're capturing.  That way you won't have ASIO4ALL big-footing your other sound programs when you don't need it.  You can switch back and forth between the two drivers on the fly without restarting Premiere.

             

            Hope that helps.

            • 3. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
              fuaho Level 1

              Great info!!

               

              Thanks!!

               

               

              • 4. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Thank you for the pointer. To date, I've had no issue with Capture, using ASIO4ALL from miniDV tape. I only have it on my workstation with 5.1 SS, and not on my laptop, but I will keep an eye open. I'll be doing a big Capture (SceneAlyzer Live) in a week, and will see how it goes. Should I have any issue, I will have you to thank for the "fix."

                 

                Appreciate - both posts,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                  nexgenVP

                  I followed your direction, everything works, except: My LS and RS mix together, even if I only monitor one channel, I still get that one track in both surround speakers! Any Ideas?

                  Thanks in advance

                  • 6. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    I saw the issue, but have to admit that I use the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in and have not issues with my DD AC3 files.

                     

                    One little anomaly that I have observed is that SurCode does not use the "normal" channel alignment, that other programs do. I created a chart for me to interpolate, as one gets a multi-channel with "Stream 1, Steam 2," etc., so locating each stream, relative to their "normal" placement takes a bit of work. I'll find that chart (think that it's stuck up on my workstation monitor) and share that. Still, I do not think this stream alignment is the issue here, but I have never used the OP's method, so have no clues there.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                      nexgenVP Level 1

                      Hi Bill, thanks for the advice. My issue isn't with the AC3 files. When I finally render my audio out it actually works perfect. My issue is actually monitoring my mix within the audio mixer of premiere. I can't solo a rear surround speaker. It plays through both rear speakers, even if I solo one of the rear channels. I have the exact same setup as in the thread. I mapped the exact same way using the asio4all. Should I be able to solo one of my rear speakers? I'm using the 6ch direct off of my soundcard, I actually tested all of my speakers through the sound card, and my system works perfectly. Then I tested digitally(optic cable from bluray, again perfect) It's just through premiere where im having the issue, I think! Finally my master track only shows one channel while solo, pucks are all in the right place, but still both rear speakers. Hopefully this info helps a little more.

                      Thanks, mark

                      • 8. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Mark,

                         

                        Unfortunately, when I Solo a multi-channel setup, I get that speaker soloed. Now, in most of my cases, I have not ingested 6x 1-channel sources, but if I am creating faux-5.1, I can isolate to one rear-channel and hear that correctly on my workstation's rear speaker. Not sure what's going on in your case.

                         

                        Do you have any Sub-mix Tracks, or any Track-mapping? Just thinking there.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                          nexgenVP Level 1

                          AudioOutputMapping.jpg

                          I finally figured it out, kind of! In the audio output mapping I have 8

                          tracks, and I had LS & RS on 5 & 6. I put them down on 7 & 8 and I can now

                          monitor my rear speakers separately!

                           

                          Do you know of any reason or how I can figure out why 5 & 6 would be mixing

                          when I monitor the audio? Also do you see any issues that could come up with

                          me having the rear speakers on 7 & 8? They still play in the right slots of

                          my master 5.1 track.

                           

                          Thanks, Mark

                          • 10. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Mark,

                             

                            I do not, and do not yet have CS5 to even check for you - sorry.

                             

                            I find it slightly odd that you have 8 Audio streams, but maybe Jeremy, or others, can explain that to me. Only guess that I would have would be the 6 discrete Audio streams, and then a  mix-down to 2-channel (stereo), if one does not have the DD 5.1 SS decoder, but that is a total, blind guess.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                             

                            PS - Here are the channel mappings, per the standard and then SurCode:

                             

                            The standard is:

                            1.) Left (front)

                            2.) Right (front)

                            3.) Center (front)

                            4.) LFE

                            5.) Left Surround (rear)

                            6.) Right Surround (rear)

                             

                            SurCode’s scheme is:

                            1.) Left

                            2.) Center

                            3.) Right

                            4.) LS

                            5.) RS

                            6.) LFE

                            • 11. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                              nexgenVP Level 1

                              Thanks for all of the info, much appreciated


                              • 12. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                                dkitsov Level 2

                                Hi, I have been using the same trick for a while now and it works. What I cannot do is to output the sound to an external amp through s/pdif via optical cable, as the asio4all will see only 2 channels for digital audio so I patched using analog cables (3.5mm to rca adapters were used). I d love to use digital out. Does the 5.1 digital out works in your setup?

                                Thanks a lot.

                                • 13. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                                  nexgenVP Level 1

                                  Sorry, I can't answer that for you. I do not have an optical out on my soundcard to test.

                                  • 14. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                                    badbobbyr

                                    Perhaps this option may work for you.  I wanted to start doing digital 5.1 audio editing and ran into the same issue. Currently, I'm using an onboard Realtek C889 sound 'card' on a Win 7 x64 PC, running through an Onkyo A/V amp. I went with this setup since I wanted to go digital using SPDIF. That turned out to be a bust for anything other than stereo music & videos, at least initially. For Blu-ray & DVD I got Cyberlink PowerDVD, which will send Dolby or DTS through SPDIF. I got AC3Filter (free & worth the price) to be able to play 5.1 through Windows Media Player and other DirectShow apps, but found the same issues mentioned in previous posts... the RealTek chip only exposes 2 SPDIF channels for A/V editing apps.

                                     

                                    I had used Asio4All previously with great success so I installed it, but SPDIF still only exposed 2 channels, as noted by others. After doing some research, I found that the SPDIF data stream coming from audio cards is natively sent as PCM data. Most A/V amp SPDIF inputs see this as two channel since that's how the stream is coded from the sound card's SPDIF output. Programs like PowerDVD use codecs that recode the the data stream as 'SPDIF data', rather than PCM, so the A/V amp will process the incoming data as multichannel audio, including the format, such as Dolby Digital, etc. PCM data streams are sent as two channel natively.

                                     

                                    I also have a EVGA GeForce GTX 750 video card, which has an HDMI output, including audio, using the Nvidia High Definition Audio Drivers. These drivers expose all six channels of my 5.1 audio chip under Asio4All. One of my two monitors is 1920 x 1080 with both DVI and HDMI inputs. By connecting the Realtek SPDIF out to the SPDIF input on the A/V amp I can satisfy most of my Windows audio needs through SPDIF. The GTX 570's HDMI out is connected to the A/V amp HDMI input, which privides the 5.1 audio I use for my editing needs plus teh video. Since the HDMI input is both audio and video it requires that the HDMI output on the A/V amp be connected to the HDMI input on my secondary monitor inorder for HDMI audio to work. The initial settings of the Nvidia control panel caused both monitors to do endless loop of switching between HDMI and DVI. A wild trip for about a minute or so, but that was the first time I wished that I had a sloth powered PC, since I couldn't move fast enough to change the driver settings!!! The HDMI capable monitor was set as the secondary under SPDIF/DVI mode. Under HDMI, the same screen setup was used by default (not my default), but it turned out that the HDMI monitor would only get a solid HDMI video signal to lock on to when it was set to be the primary screen under HDMI mode. Now switching can mostly be done by changing the inputs on the A/V amp, although I sometimes need to press the input button on the HDMI monitor to get it's attention. The only downside now is headphones always appear as stereo inputs when connected. I guess now I'll find out which of my neighbors really love me or which really don't.

                                     

                                    Natively, HDMI audio works better for multi-channel digital audio editing than SPDIF for virtually no extra cost, if you have an HDMI monitor and a fairly inexpensive A/V amp (you don't really mix audio with PC speakers???). The HDMI audio specs were designed for multi-channel audio, whereas  SPDIF was originally designed for CD player digital output during the  stereo only days (no, quad channel really doesn't count).The SPDIF specs are the major constraint because codecs are needed to recode the output stream and there don't seem to be any free ones that work with A/V editing apps. Maybe there's an opportunity for some enterprising group???

                                    • 15. Re: Surround sound ASIO fixed
                                      davidpayne1981 Level 1

                                      Hi all sorry to open up an old post again but it seemed pretty relevant to my current situation.

                                       

                                      I have a cheap soundblaster card now and it enables me to edit in 5.1 and export too (i previously had a minnetonka audio surcode licence but its not needed with cc as it has native dolby export). I have however had a few issues and found it very complicated to get it working. I also have about 8 different sound controllers listed in windows which is a bit of a headache.

                                       

                                      I'm upgrading my machine and the motherboard (Asus X99-DELUXE II) has 8 channel audio with DTS support.

                                       

                                      Would you expect for premiere cc to let me edit and export in 5.1 and would I still need ASIO4ALL to achieve this?