10 Replies Latest reply: Oct 28, 2009 12:17 PM by S4ENO RSS

    Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?

    S4ENO Community Member

      My main tool is Lightroom and I certainly want to upgrade to new versions to benefit from improved RAW rendering and functionality. I also bought CS4 but use it so little that I can't justify upgrade to new versions in the future.

       

      It seems like a very good idea to use edit as smartobjects when I want's to edit in PS to get nondestructive editing. If I want to change some adjustments in my smartobject PS starts ARC and not Lightroom. This could be a problem in the future if latest version of ARC in CS4 not support new possibilities in latest version of Lightroom?

       

      Any suggestions how I can edit or even replace smartobjects using Lightroom as engine and not ARC?

        • 1. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
          S4ENO Community Member

          It's even worse! I tried v3 beta and "edit as smartobject" didn't use new commands in v3. So it seems like CS4 use ARC even initially to make the smartobject...

           

          Is the solution to first convert to a rendered TIFF and make a smartobject of that one in CS4?

          • 2. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
            David A Rogers Community Member

            You have an interesting point here. The question is, at what point will ACR require a version of Photoshop greater than CS4?

             

            We know that both programs operate with the same underlying structure for processing (LR+ACR) but if you didnt have Photoshop, you wouldn't have ACR.

            In the future versions of Photoshop, ACR will be updated along with Lightroom. If you plan on not upgrading Photoshop then what you are concerned about is opening a smart object that requires ACR 6 or 7+ because the current behavior is not to open Lightroom.

             

            It's a moot point: If you dont upgrade to subsequent versions of Photoshop then there will be nothing for you to open as a smart object into. That functionality of Lightroom will be null and void for your workflow.

             

            All of your edits in Lightroom are non destructive anyway. Opening files as smart objects can be very useful but it sounds like your use of photoshop is so low that you may simply be better utilizing LR as your processing engine with layered PSD files containing all of your adjustments. If you want to then replace what would have been the smart object layer, simply process another version of the file and swap the layers.

            • 3. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
              S4ENO Community Member

              You have an interesting point here. The question is, at what point will ACR require a version of Photoshop greater than CS4?

               

              We know that both programs operate with the same underlying structure for processing (LR+ACR) but if you didnt have Photoshop, you wouldn't have ACR.

              In the future versions of Photoshop, ACR will be updated along with Lightroom. If you plan on not upgrading Photoshop then what you are concerned about is opening a smart object that requires ACR 6 or 7+ because the current behavior is not to open Lightroom.

               

              It's a moot point: If you dont upgrade to subsequent versions of Photoshop then there will be nothing for you to open as a smart object into. That functionality of Lightroom will be null and void for your workflow.

               

              I can't understand why Adobe makes it this way. If I upgrade Lightroom I pay for getting the newest RAW converter (fair enough) and I don't want to pay once more to get the same functionality in PS. It should be possible to use Lightroom instead of ARC in the PS workflow. Or CS4 should allow ACR 6 or 7+ if you have a license of matching LR version.

               

              All of your edits in Lightroom are non destructive anyway. Opening files as smart objects can be very useful but it sounds like your use of photoshop is so low that you may simply be better utilizing LR as your processing engine with layered PSD files containing all of your adjustments. If you want to then replace what would have been the smart object layer, simply process another version of the file and swap the layers.

               

              If I make a TIFF file I know Ligthroom will make the conversion and of course I can redo this any time. Converting to a smartobject and using smart filters still seems like an good idea to get this step also non destructive.

               

              What is the easiest way to replace a smartobject with a new conversion?

              • 5. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
                Jeff Schewe Community Member

                S4ENO wrote:

                 

                Any suggestions how I can edit or even replace smartobjects using Lightroom as engine and not ARC?

                 

                You can't and you never will be able to. The command to open an image as a Smart Object requires Photoshop in order to edit it. Photoshop can't send the SO back to Lightroom because it's designed to use Camera Raw.

                 

                If you make changes to the embedded raw file that you want back into Lightroom you could save out the xmp from the Smart Object in the Camera Raw dlog and then from Lightroom, read the new xmp. But I find an easier way of working is by using snapshots on Lightroom and Camera Raw. You can create multiple snapshots in Lightroom and have those sna[shots show up in the Camera Raw Smart Object.

                 

                As far as worrying about future cross-compatibilities between Camera Raw and Lightroom, Adobe has already stated that equivalent "release" version will remain compatible. There are times they may be a bit out of sync when one product may have a beta (such as the LR 3 beta or the previous ACR 5.5 beta) but for actual released products, the only time shift would be measured in days. As I recall, the release version of Lightroom 2.x and Camera Raw 5.x all happened within days (if not hours) of each other. So, I really wouldn't worry about it...

                • 6. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
                  S4ENO Community Member

                  Jeff Schewe wrote:

                   

                  S4ENO wrote:

                   

                  Any suggestions how I can edit or even replace smartobjects using Lightroom as engine and not ARC?

                   

                  You can't and you never will be able to. The command to open an image as a Smart Object requires Photoshop in order to edit it. Photoshop can't send the SO back to Lightroom because it's designed to use Camera Raw.

                   

                  If you make changes to the embedded raw file that you want back into Lightroom you could save out the xmp from the Smart Object in the Camera Raw dlog and then from Lightroom, read the new xmp. But I find an easier way of working is by using snapshots on Lightroom and Camera Raw. You can create multiple snapshots in Lightroom and have those sna[shots show up in the Camera Raw Smart Object.

                   

                  As far as worrying about future cross-compatibilities between Camera Raw and Lightroom, Adobe has already stated that equivalent "release" version will remain compatible. There are times they may be a bit out of sync when one product may have a beta (such as the LR 3 beta or the previous ACR 5.5 beta) but for actual released products, the only time shift would be measured in days. As I recall, the release version of Lightroom 2.x and Camera Raw 5.x all happened within days (if not hours) of each other. So, I really wouldn't worry about it...

                  My worry is that Lightroom 3 or 4 will not work with the latest ACR version in CS4. I'm going to upgrade Lightroom to get the improved quality but will not upgrade PS just to get the same RAW converter!

                  • 7. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
                    MikeLeone Community Member

                    On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:30 PM, S4ENO <forums@adobe.com> said:

                     

                    My worry is that Lightroom 3 or 4 will not work with the latest ACR version in CS4. I'm going to upgrade Lightroom to get the improved quality but will not upgrade PS just to get the same RAW converter!

                     

                    I'm confused. Consider - you use LR to develop your RAW photos. In the

                    course of doing so, you decide you need to do some work in PS. So you

                    send the photo to PS.

                     

                    It doesn't come into PS as a RAW, so the ACR in PS is never even accessed.

                     

                    So why do you think you would need to get an updated PS for an updated

                    RAW converter that you won't be using (since you will be using LR to

                    process your RAWs)? Granted, you might want an updated PS to get it's

                    updated features, but you wouldn't be using it for it's RAW converter.

                    Since LR can send to PS as a PSD or TIFF, theoretically, so wouldn't

                    need to upgrade your PS (since your current PS knows how to deal

                    with a PSD or TIFF file).

                    • 8. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
                      S4ENO Community Member

                      MikeLeone wrote:

                       

                      On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:30 PM, S4ENO <forums@adobe.com> said:

                       

                      My worry is that Lightroom 3 or 4 will not work with the latest ACR version in CS4. I'm going to upgrade Lightroom to get the improved quality but will not upgrade PS just to get the same RAW converter!

                       

                      I'm confused. Consider - you use LR to develop your RAW photos. In the

                      course of doing so, you decide you need to do some work in PS. So you

                      send the photo to PS.

                       

                      It doesn't come into PS as a RAW, so the ACR in PS is never even accessed.

                       

                      So why do you think you would need to get an updated PS for an updated

                      RAW converter that you won't be using (since you will be using LR to

                      process your RAWs)? Granted, you might want an updated PS to get it's

                      updated features, but you wouldn't be using it for it's RAW converter.

                      Since LR can send to PS as a PSD or TIFF, theoretically, so wouldn't

                      need to upgrade your PS (since your current PS knows how to deal

                      with a PSD or TIFF file).

                      My goal is to use the smartobject functionallity in PS. If you choose "Open as smartobject in PS" it will use ACR and not Lightroom to convert your RAW file to a smartobject layer. Try this your self with the beta. Change something that's new in the beta (like grain) and if you choose this command you will loose this settings.

                       

                      If you later decide to change the smartobject and choose "Edit contents" PS will open ACR and it's again not possible to use Lightroom.

                      • 9. Re: Edit a smartobject in Lightroom?
                        MikeLeone Community Member

                        On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM, S4ENO <forums@adobe.com> said:

                         

                        My goal is to use the smartobject functionallity in PS. If you choose "Open as smartobject in PS" it will use ACR and not Lightroom to convert your RAW file to a smartobject layer. Try this your self with the beta. Change something that's new in the beta (like grain) and if you choose this command you will loose this settings.

                         

                        Huh. I did not realize that.

                         

                        If you later decide to change the smartobject and choose "Edit contents" PS will open ACR and it's again not possible to use Lightroom.

                         

                        • 10. Conclusion
                          S4ENO Community Member

                          The Smartobject interface between Lightroom ("Open as Smartobjects in Photoshop") and CS4 ("Edit contents") is only using ACR as RAW converter. If you have a new Ligthroom version that's not supported by CS4 you can not use this interface without loosing improvements in the latest version.

                           

                          I feel Adobe should change the interface so that you can use Lightroom as the converter in these commands.

                           

                          Work around:

                           

                          If you don't plan to always have the last version of PS it seems like an good idea to skip these commands and use "Edit in CS4" (ctrl-e) instead and manually convert the layer to Smartobject in PS. If you want to edit the Smartobject later then do this on the original or virtual copy in Lightroom and make a TIFF/PSD again with "Edit in CS4". Then use "Replace contents..." in CS and navigate to the physical TIFF/PSD file generated.

                           

                          If anyone know how you can do this latest step more efficient please let me know.