34 Replies Latest reply on Jul 15, 2008 11:07 AM by John T Smith

    OT: Toshiba and HP laptops

    Level 7
      My Dad is buying a laptop and it's the job of my brother and I to pick it
      out. He's 81 years old and was vice president of a major New York
      advertising agency for many years; now he's getting his VERY FIRST computer.
      :-)

      My brother is looking at Toshibas and HPs, the low-end models. He'll be
      buying it at a retail store.

      Can anyone who has owned/used those share their opinions (and model
      numbers)?

      Muchisimas gracias, amigos,

      --
      Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
      Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
      Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
      --

        • 1. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
          I'm not going to post the model number 'cause it's 2+ years old and no longer made... but...

          Have a (seldom used) HP model with widescreen format and integrated wireless... which my wife uses when she's upstairs in the library and wants to check something on the Internet w/out walking downstairs and going to her computer

          For a first computer, and 81 years old, I recommend a widescreen model so you can, if needed, use large fonts (I'm only 61 and have to keep a pair of glasses at my computer or I can't read the screen)

          Super fast is probably not important... bundled software could be, so he can write letters and do spreadsheets... MS Office standard (unless you know he wants to do a database project, then Office Pro is needed) or even MS Works (check... I think Works will read an MS Office Word file... maybe not Excel spreadsheet)

          For a guy, unless he has small hands, a full size keyboard is useful

          If he will travel, battery life is important... otherwise, just leave it connected to the charger most of the time
          • 2. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
            Level 7
            Hi John,

            Thanks, good thoughts on the first computer. I'm with you on all of those.

            One thing I've decided, though, is rather than buying Microsoft Office or
            having him use the somewhat sub-standard Microsoft Works, we're going to
            download and install the free open-source Open Office. I had heard about it
            before and never tried it, but I downloaded and installed it the other day,
            and the word processor looks to be just fine for all his purposes. And it
            probably doesn't have half as many bugs and irritations as Microsoft Word!
            I'm leaning towards switching to it myself.

            Definitely considering the eyesight issues.

            Appreciate it,


            --
            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
            --

            "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:g5fs4h$pc$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > I'm not going to post the model number 'cause it's 2+ years old and no
            > longer
            > made... but...
            >
            > Have a (seldom used) HP model with widescreen format and integrated
            > wireless... which my wife uses when she's upstairs in the library and
            > wants to
            > check something on the Internet w/out walking downstairs and going to her
            > computer
            >
            > For a first computer, and 81 years old, I recommend a widescreen model so
            > you
            > can, if needed, use large fonts (I'm only 61 and have to keep a pair of
            > glasses
            > at my computer or I can't read the screen)
            >
            > Super fast is probably not important... bundled software could be, so he
            > can
            > write letters and do spreadsheets... MS Office standard (unless you know
            > he
            > wants to do a database project, then Office Pro is needed) or even MS
            > Works
            > (check... I think Works will read an MS Office Word file... maybe not
            > Excel
            > spreadsheet)
            >
            > For a guy, unless he has small hands, a full size keyboard is useful
            >
            > If he will travel, battery life is important... otherwise, just leave it
            > connected to the charger most of the time
            >

            • 3. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
              John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
              A few other (random) thoughts

              A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse pad... my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a thumb across a section of the computer

              Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took our laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to HAVE to use it for very long

              Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting itself on the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when the introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep the product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected

              I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all Microsoft products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open Office does very well, so he should be happy with that

              If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will use it, and does he want color or just b&w

              For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later number) which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner and drum in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing the drum (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components, and the drum is spendy)

              For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color inkjet, and found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we share the Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)

              Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it every day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her plant book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink head
              • 4. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                Level 7
                >And it probably doesn't have half as many bugs and irritations as Microsoft
                >Word! I'm leaning towards switching to it myself.

                Maybe consider MacBook + Pages?

                That'd be the easiest route and would likely entail a lot less of your time
                to support in the long run.

                I used to use Toshiba way back in the day, and they were crap for laptops,
                but that was easily 6-8 years ago, so they may have gotten better since
                then.

                -Darrel


                • 5. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                  Level 7
                  On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:30:30 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                  <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote:

                  >My Dad is buying a laptop and it's the job of my brother and I to pick it
                  >out. He's 81 years old and was vice president of a major New York
                  >advertising agency for many years; now he's getting his VERY FIRST computer.
                  >:-)
                  >
                  >My brother is looking at Toshibas and HPs, the low-end models. He'll be
                  >buying it at a retail store.
                  >
                  >Can anyone who has owned/used those share their opinions (and model
                  >numbers)?
                  >
                  >Muchisimas gracias, amigos,
                  >
                  >--
                  >Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                  >Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                  >Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet


                  I think the models are different over here than you get in the USA,
                  but I went through the process of getting a laptop for another friend
                  - and after lots of searching, listening to IT professionals and
                  others we settled on HP. and then narrowed it down to the dv6710.

                  It's still on our HP UK - but can't find it on the US site.

                  Don't go for the lowest spec - as that has minimal RAM - get one with
                  2GHz and use an external mouse - I hate the laptop built in "mouse
                  devise" and hate to think what an older guy with less agile hands
                  would do.

                  HP also do slightly larger laptops that have inbuilt full size
                  keyboards - so that may be a good option.

                  HTH
                  Malcolm

                  --

                  ~Malcolm~*...
                  ~*
                  • 6. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                    Level 7
                    Thanks, Darrel, but we don't want to go the Mac route. There's nobody in the
                    family to support him on a Mac.

                    --
                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                    --

                    "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                    news:g5g0o2$5pq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > >And it probably doesn't have half as many bugs and irritations as
                    > >Microsoft Word! I'm leaning towards switching to it myself.
                    >
                    > Maybe consider MacBook + Pages?
                    >
                    > That'd be the easiest route and would likely entail a lot less of your
                    > time to support in the long run.
                    >
                    > I used to use Toshiba way back in the day, and they were crap for laptops,
                    > but that was easily 6-8 years ago, so they may have gotten better since
                    > then.
                    >
                    > -Darrel
                    >

                    • 7. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                      Level 7
                      Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                      considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for the
                      past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on just about
                      everything.

                      Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going to set
                      him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to keep paying.

                      And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet printer
                      left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)

                      --
                      Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                      Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                      Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                      --


                      "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                      news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      >A few other (random) thoughts
                      >
                      > A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                      > pad...
                      > my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                      > thumb
                      > across a section of the computer
                      >
                      > Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took
                      > our
                      > laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                      > "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                      > accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to HAVE
                      > to use
                      > it for very long
                      >
                      > Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security
                      > program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                      > itself on
                      > the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when the
                      > introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep the
                      > product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                      >
                      > I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                      > Microsoft
                      > products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                      > Office
                      > does very well, so he should be happy with that
                      >
                      > If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will use
                      > it,
                      > and does he want color or just b&w
                      >
                      > For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                      > number)
                      > which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner and
                      > drum
                      > in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing the
                      > drum
                      > (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components, and
                      > the
                      > drum is spendy)
                      >
                      > For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color inkjet,
                      > and
                      > found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we share
                      > the
                      > Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time
                      > (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                      >
                      > Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                      > every
                      > day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her
                      > plant
                      > book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink head
                      >
                      >

                      • 8. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                        Level 7
                        Thanks, Malcolm, I'll make a note of that model number.

                        I actually think 1 Gb of RAM will be enough for him; he's not going to do
                        much except for write text documents and send emails. But if we can get more
                        cheaply, we'll get it!

                        Definitely an external mouse. My brother was telling my father that the
                        touchpad on the laptop would be fine for him, and I had to object fiercely.
                        My father has never used a mouse at all before, never clicked on anything,
                        never selected anything, never scrolled for anything. The last thing he
                        needs to do is have to deal with a touchpad WHILE he's climbing that whole
                        learning curve.


                        --
                        Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                        Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                        Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                        --

                        "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                        news:us2n74ljpr4b8lvqulb5l7596jrrt7rn7r@4ax.com...
                        > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:30:30 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                        > <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote:
                        >
                        >>My Dad is buying a laptop and it's the job of my brother and I to pick it
                        >>out. He's 81 years old and was vice president of a major New York
                        >>advertising agency for many years; now he's getting his VERY FIRST
                        >>computer.
                        >>:-)
                        >>
                        >>My brother is looking at Toshibas and HPs, the low-end models. He'll be
                        >>buying it at a retail store.
                        >>
                        >>Can anyone who has owned/used those share their opinions (and model
                        >>numbers)?
                        >>
                        >>Muchisimas gracias, amigos,
                        >>
                        >>--
                        >>Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                        >>Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                        >>Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                        >
                        >
                        > I think the models are different over here than you get in the USA,
                        > but I went through the process of getting a laptop for another friend
                        > - and after lots of searching, listening to IT professionals and
                        > others we settled on HP. and then narrowed it down to the dv6710.
                        >
                        > It's still on our HP UK - but can't find it on the US site.
                        >
                        > Don't go for the lowest spec - as that has minimal RAM - get one with
                        > 2GHz and use an external mouse - I hate the laptop built in "mouse
                        > devise" and hate to think what an older guy with less agile hands
                        > would do.
                        >
                        > HP also do slightly larger laptops that have inbuilt full size
                        > keyboards - so that may be a good option.
                        >
                        > HTH
                        > Malcolm
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > ~Malcolm~*...
                        > ~*

                        • 9. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                          Level 7
                          I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?

                          --
                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                          Adobe Community Expert
                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                          ==================
                          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          ==================


                          "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                          news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          > Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                          > considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for the
                          > past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on just
                          > about everything.
                          >
                          > Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going to
                          > set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to keep
                          > paying.
                          >
                          > And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet printer
                          > left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                          >
                          > --
                          > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                          > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                          > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                          > --
                          >
                          >
                          > "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                          > news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          >>A few other (random) thoughts
                          >>
                          >> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                          >> pad...
                          >> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                          >> thumb
                          >> across a section of the computer
                          >>
                          >> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took
                          >> our
                          >> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                          >> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                          >> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to HAVE
                          >> to use
                          >> it for very long
                          >>
                          >> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security
                          >> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                          >> itself on
                          >> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when
                          >> the
                          >> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep the
                          >> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                          >>
                          >> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                          >> Microsoft
                          >> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                          >> Office
                          >> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                          >>
                          >> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will
                          >> use it,
                          >> and does he want color or just b&w
                          >>
                          >> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                          >> number)
                          >> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner and
                          >> drum
                          >> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing the
                          >> drum
                          >> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components, and
                          >> the
                          >> drum is spendy)
                          >>
                          >> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color inkjet,
                          >> and
                          >> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we share
                          >> the
                          >> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time
                          >> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                          >>
                          >> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                          >> every
                          >> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her
                          >> plant
                          >> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                          >> head
                          >>
                          >>
                          >

                          • 10. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                            Level 7
                            LOL... thanks, but I don't think we want dot matrix! :-)


                            --
                            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                            --

                            "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                            news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                            >
                            > --
                            > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                            > Adobe Community Expert
                            > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                            > ==================
                            > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            > ==================
                            >
                            >
                            > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                            > news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                            >> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for the
                            >> past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on just
                            >> about everything.
                            >>
                            >> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going to
                            >> set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to keep
                            >> paying.
                            >>
                            >> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet printer
                            >> left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                            >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                            >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                            >> --
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                            >> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >>>A few other (random) thoughts
                            >>>
                            >>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                            >>> pad...
                            >>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                            >>> thumb
                            >>> across a section of the computer
                            >>>
                            >>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took
                            >>> our
                            >>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                            >>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                            >>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to HAVE
                            >>> to use
                            >>> it for very long
                            >>>
                            >>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security
                            >>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                            >>> itself on
                            >>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when
                            >>> the
                            >>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep
                            >>> the
                            >>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                            >>>
                            >>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                            >>> Microsoft
                            >>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                            >>> Office
                            >>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                            >>>
                            >>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will
                            >>> use it,
                            >>> and does he want color or just b&w
                            >>>
                            >>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                            >>> number)
                            >>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner
                            >>> and drum
                            >>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing the
                            >>> drum
                            >>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components, and
                            >>> the
                            >>> drum is spendy)
                            >>>
                            >>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color inkjet,
                            >>> and
                            >>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                            >>> share the
                            >>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time
                            >>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                            >>>
                            >>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                            >>> every
                            >>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her
                            >>> plant
                            >>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                            >>> head
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >

                            • 11. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                              Level 7
                              Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display problem,
                              my other thread? :-\


                              --
                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                              --

                              "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                              news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                              >
                              > --
                              > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                              > Adobe Community Expert
                              > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                              > ==================
                              > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              > ==================
                              >
                              >
                              > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                              > news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                              >> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for the
                              >> past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on just
                              >> about everything.
                              >>
                              >> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going to
                              >> set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to keep
                              >> paying.
                              >>
                              >> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet printer
                              >> left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                              >>
                              >> --
                              >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                              >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                              >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                              >> --
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                              >> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >>>A few other (random) thoughts
                              >>>
                              >>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                              >>> pad...
                              >>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                              >>> thumb
                              >>> across a section of the computer
                              >>>
                              >>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took
                              >>> our
                              >>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                              >>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                              >>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to HAVE
                              >>> to use
                              >>> it for very long
                              >>>
                              >>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security
                              >>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                              >>> itself on
                              >>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when
                              >>> the
                              >>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep
                              >>> the
                              >>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                              >>>
                              >>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                              >>> Microsoft
                              >>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                              >>> Office
                              >>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                              >>>
                              >>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will
                              >>> use it,
                              >>> and does he want color or just b&w
                              >>>
                              >>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                              >>> number)
                              >>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner
                              >>> and drum
                              >>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing the
                              >>> drum
                              >>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components, and
                              >>> the
                              >>> drum is spendy)
                              >>>
                              >>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color inkjet,
                              >>> and
                              >>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                              >>> share the
                              >>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time
                              >>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                              >>>
                              >>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                              >>> every
                              >>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her
                              >>> plant
                              >>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                              >>> head
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >

                              • 12. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                Level 7
                                > Thanks, Darrel, but we don't want to go the Mac route. There's nobody in
                                > the family to support him on a Mac.

                                I know it sounds odd, but that's exactly why I suggested it. If he's
                                anywhere near an Apple store, the one-hour newbie class is all he likely
                                needs, and from that point on, there's really nothing you'd need to support.

                                The main benefit is it's a lot harder to get a virus/spyware/adware
                                installed on a Mac. I've set up a few relatives with a fairly secure Windows
                                set up, but even then it eventually requires me spending a saturday
                                upgrading/fixing the thing at some point in the future.

                                I'm definitely not trying to start a OSX vs. Windows thing here. I just
                                personally hate supporting relatives' windows boxes as they are out of my
                                control and when they go bad, they go REALLY bad.

                                -Darrel


                                • 13. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                  Level 7
                                  > The last thing he needs to do is have to deal with a touchpad WHILE he's
                                  > climbing that whole learning curve.

                                  I wonder...mice can be problematic for anyone that's never used a computer.
                                  I wonder if they really are any more confusing than a trackpad for anyone
                                  that hasn't really used computers. It'd be an interesting study...

                                  Our generation probably can't think of using anything but the mouse, but the
                                  previous generation probably can't stand anything but the keyboard, and the
                                  new generation probably can't stand anything that's not an iphone touch
                                  screen or miniscule 10-digit texting keyboard. ;o)

                                  -Darrel


                                  • 14. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                    Level 7
                                    No sorry. I eschew in the general direction of Flash. 8)

                                    --
                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    ==================
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                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    ==================


                                    "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                    news:g5g483$9hb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    > Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display
                                    > problem, my other thread? :-\
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                    > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                    > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                    > news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    >> Adobe Community Expert
                                    >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    >> ==================
                                    >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    >> ==================
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                    >> message news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                                    >>> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for
                                    >>> the past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on
                                    >>> just about everything.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going to
                                    >>> set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to keep
                                    >>> paying.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet
                                    >>> printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --
                                    >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                    >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                    >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                    >>> --
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                    >>> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>>>A few other (random) thoughts
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                                    >>>> pad...
                                    >>>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                                    >>>> thumb
                                    >>>> across a section of the computer
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I took
                                    >>>> our
                                    >>>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                                    >>>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                                    >>>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to
                                    >>>> HAVE to use
                                    >>>> it for very long
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet security
                                    >>>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                                    >>>> itself on
                                    >>>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when
                                    >>>> the
                                    >>>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep
                                    >>>> the
                                    >>>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                                    >>>> Microsoft
                                    >>>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                                    >>>> Office
                                    >>>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will
                                    >>>> use it,
                                    >>>> and does he want color or just b&w
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                                    >>>> number)
                                    >>>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner
                                    >>>> and drum
                                    >>>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing
                                    >>>> the drum
                                    >>>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components,
                                    >>>> and the
                                    >>>> drum is spendy)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color
                                    >>>> inkjet, and
                                    >>>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                                    >>>> share the
                                    >>>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short time
                                    >>>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                                    >>>> every
                                    >>>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in her
                                    >>>> plant
                                    >>>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                                    >>>> head
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >

                                    • 15. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                      John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                      > if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)

                                      If you do, good luck with finding a Vista driver

                                      If he doesn't need color, I would say go with a low-end HP laser of whatever model is current... the HP 1012 I have @work has done very well for the 2+ years I've had it (replaced a Brother that simply wore out) printing 20 to 100 pages per work day
                                      • 16. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                        Level 7
                                        For what it's worth, my daughter has used PCs all her life (18 years), and
                                        is attending Clemson University in the fall, where she is required to have a
                                        laptop, which she can buy from the Clemson Computer Center. She is there
                                        this summer on a 5-week research project for honors college
                                        freshmen/sophomores, and has done a reasonably thorough survey of Mac vs. PC
                                        laptops (Lenovo, Dell, Gateway, HP). She opted for the 13" MacBook.

                                        I recently got a 21" iMac, and like it oodles (although I still don't like
                                        the Mac OS)....

                                        --
                                        Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                        Adobe Community Expert
                                        (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                        ==================
                                        http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        ==================


                                        "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                        news:g5g4bj$9k4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >> Thanks, Darrel, but we don't want to go the Mac route. There's nobody in
                                        >> the family to support him on a Mac.
                                        >
                                        > I know it sounds odd, but that's exactly why I suggested it. If he's
                                        > anywhere near an Apple store, the one-hour newbie class is all he likely
                                        > needs, and from that point on, there's really nothing you'd need to
                                        > support.
                                        >
                                        > The main benefit is it's a lot harder to get a virus/spyware/adware
                                        > installed on a Mac. I've set up a few relatives with a fairly secure
                                        > Windows set up, but even then it eventually requires me spending a
                                        > saturday upgrading/fixing the thing at some point in the future.
                                        >
                                        > I'm definitely not trying to start a OSX vs. Windows thing here. I just
                                        > personally hate supporting relatives' windows boxes as they are out of my
                                        > control and when they go bad, they go REALLY bad.
                                        >
                                        > -Darrel
                                        >

                                        • 17. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                          Level 7
                                          In general? Really??

                                          --
                                          Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          --

                                          "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                          news:g5g4j8$9qs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          > No sorry. I eschew in the general direction of Flash. 8)
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          > Adobe Community Expert
                                          > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          > ==================
                                          > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          > ==================
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                          > news:g5g483$9hb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >> Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display
                                          >> problem, my other thread? :-\
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          >> --
                                          >>
                                          >> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                          >> news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                                          >>>
                                          >>> --
                                          >>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          >>> Adobe Community Expert
                                          >>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          >>> ==================
                                          >>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >>> ==================
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                          >>> message news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                                          >>>> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for
                                          >>>> the past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on
                                          >>>> just about everything.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going
                                          >>>> to set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to
                                          >>>> keep paying.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet
                                          >>>> printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> --
                                          >>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          >>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          >>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          >>>> --
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                          >>>> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>>>A few other (random) thoughts
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                                          >>>>> pad...
                                          >>>>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                                          >>>>> thumb
                                          >>>>> across a section of the computer
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I
                                          >>>>> took our
                                          >>>>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                                          >>>>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                                          >>>>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to
                                          >>>>> HAVE to use
                                          >>>>> it for very long
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet
                                          >>>>> security
                                          >>>>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                                          >>>>> itself on
                                          >>>>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that when
                                          >>>>> the
                                          >>>>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep
                                          >>>>> the
                                          >>>>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                                          >>>>> Microsoft
                                          >>>>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                                          >>>>> Office
                                          >>>>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he will
                                          >>>>> use it,
                                          >>>>> and does he want color or just b&w
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                                          >>>>> number)
                                          >>>>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner
                                          >>>>> and drum
                                          >>>>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing
                                          >>>>> the drum
                                          >>>>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components,
                                          >>>>> and the
                                          >>>>> drum is spendy)
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color
                                          >>>>> inkjet, and
                                          >>>>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                                          >>>>> share the
                                          >>>>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short
                                          >>>>> time
                                          >>>>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using it
                                          >>>>> every
                                          >>>>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in
                                          >>>>> her plant
                                          >>>>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                                          >>>>> head
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>
                                          >

                                          • 18. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                            Level 7
                                            Yeah. 8)

                                            --
                                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            Adobe Community Expert
                                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            ==================
                                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            ==================


                                            "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                            news:g5g6jl$bvm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            > In general? Really??
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            > --
                                            >
                                            > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                            > news:g5g4j8$9qs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >> No sorry. I eschew in the general direction of Flash. 8)
                                            >>
                                            >> --
                                            >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            >> Adobe Community Expert
                                            >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            >> ==================
                                            >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >> ==================
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                            >> message news:g5g483$9hb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>> Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display
                                            >>> problem, my other thread? :-\
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>> --
                                            >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            >>> --
                                            >>>
                                            >>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                            >>> news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> --
                                            >>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            >>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                            >>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            >>>> ==================
                                            >>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >>>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >>>> ==================
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                            >>>> message news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                                            >>>>> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for
                                            >>>>> the past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on
                                            >>>>> just about everything.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going
                                            >>>>> to set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to
                                            >>>>> keep paying.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet
                                            >>>>> printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> --
                                            >>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            >>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            >>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            >>>>> --
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                            >>>>> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>>>A few other (random) thoughts
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in mouse
                                            >>>>>> pad...
                                            >>>>>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing a
                                            >>>>>> thumb
                                            >>>>>> across a section of the computer
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I
                                            >>>>>> took our
                                            >>>>>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                                            >>>>>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model to
                                            >>>>>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to
                                            >>>>>> HAVE to use
                                            >>>>>> it for very long
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet
                                            >>>>>> security
                                            >>>>>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                                            >>>>>> itself on
                                            >>>>>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that
                                            >>>>>> when the
                                            >>>>>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to keep
                                            >>>>>> the
                                            >>>>>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                                            >>>>>> Microsoft
                                            >>>>>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that Open
                                            >>>>>> Office
                                            >>>>>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he
                                            >>>>>> will use it,
                                            >>>>>> and does he want color or just b&w
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                                            >>>>>> number)
                                            >>>>>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the toner
                                            >>>>>> and drum
                                            >>>>>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing
                                            >>>>>> the drum
                                            >>>>>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components,
                                            >>>>>> and the
                                            >>>>>> drum is spendy)
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color
                                            >>>>>> inkjet, and
                                            >>>>>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                                            >>>>>> share the
                                            >>>>>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short
                                            >>>>>> time
                                            >>>>>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using
                                            >>>>>> it every
                                            >>>>>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in
                                            >>>>>> her plant
                                            >>>>>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the ink
                                            >>>>>> head
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>
                                            >

                                            • 19. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                              Level 7

                                              "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                              news:g5g4bj$9k4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                              >> Thanks, Darrel, but we don't want to go the Mac route. There's nobody in
                                              >> the family to support him on a Mac.
                                              >
                                              > I know it sounds odd, but that's exactly why I suggested it. If he's
                                              > anywhere near an Apple store, the one-hour newbie class is all he likely
                                              > needs, and from that point on, there's really nothing you'd need to
                                              > support.

                                              It would be difficult/very unlikely for him to take that class. And I can
                                              guarantee you that a brand-new computer user is going to have at least a few
                                              more questions. So unless I want to spend some time deciphering the
                                              "intuitive interface" of Apple computers so that I can answer his questions,
                                              I think I'll stick with PC. :-)

                                              > The main benefit is it's a lot harder to get a virus/spyware/adware
                                              > installed on a Mac. I've set up a few relatives with a fairly secure
                                              > Windows set up, but even then it eventually requires me spending a
                                              > saturday upgrading/fixing the thing at some point in the future.

                                              > I'm definitely not trying to start a OSX vs. Windows thing here. I just
                                              > personally hate supporting relatives' windows boxes as they are out of my
                                              > control and when they go bad, they go REALLY bad.

                                              Right, I understand your points, but it just doesn't make sense for us.
                                              There's also the higher price of a Mac to consider.

                                              --
                                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                              --

                                              • 20. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                Level 7
                                                On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:00:50 -0500, "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com>
                                                wrote:


                                                >
                                                >I used to use Toshiba way back in the day, and they were crap for laptops,
                                                >but that was easily 6-8 years ago, so they may have gotten better since
                                                >then.
                                                >
                                                >-Darrel
                                                >


                                                Toshiba were the leaders in laptops - thinking back 15 to 20 years.
                                                Long before most other IBM PC clone manufacturers


                                                I've heard many IT guys say they are still world leaders in the last
                                                few years.


                                                Like any company - they go through highs and lows

                                                One of my best friends has a Tosh and it's be as solid as a rock and
                                                just totally reliable.

                                                But I've heard same about HP - who have a very solid history in
                                                electronic test equipment.


                                                You pays your money and takes your pick.




                                                --

                                                ~Malcolm~*...
                                                ~*
                                                • 21. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                  Level 7
                                                  Ok, I'll bite. Why?

                                                  I don't like any technology when it's abused, but why not, for instance, use
                                                  Flash to present an audio clip on a web site?

                                                  --
                                                  Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                  Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                  Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
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                                                  "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                  news:g5g6rh$c6k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  > Yeah. 8)
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                  > Adobe Community Expert
                                                  > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                  > ==================
                                                  > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  > ==================
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                                  > news:g5g6jl$bvm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >> In general? Really??
                                                  >>
                                                  >> --
                                                  >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                  >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                  >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                  >> --
                                                  >>
                                                  >> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                  >> news:g5g4j8$9qs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>> No sorry. I eschew in the general direction of Flash. 8)
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> --
                                                  >>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                  >>> Adobe Community Expert
                                                  >>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                  >>> ==================
                                                  >>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  >>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  >>> ==================
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                                  >>> message news:g5g483$9hb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>>> Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display
                                                  >>>> problem, my other thread? :-\
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>> --
                                                  >>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                  >>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                  >>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                  >>>> --
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                  >>>> news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>>>>I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> --
                                                  >>>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                  >>>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                                  >>>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                  >>>>> ==================
                                                  >>>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  >>>>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                  >>>>> ==================
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                                  >>>>> message news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>>>>> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                                                  >>>>>> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly for
                                                  >>>>>> the past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as you on
                                                  >>>>>> just about everything.
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're going
                                                  >>>>>> to set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't have to
                                                  >>>>>> keep paying.
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet
                                                  >>>>>> printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>> --
                                                  >>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                  >>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                  >>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                  >>>>>> --
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                  >>>>>> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>>>>>>A few other (random) thoughts
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in
                                                  >>>>>>> mouse pad...
                                                  >>>>>>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing
                                                  >>>>>>> a thumb
                                                  >>>>>>> across a section of the computer
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I
                                                  >>>>>>> took our
                                                  >>>>>>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently, and
                                                  >>>>>>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model
                                                  >>>>>>> to
                                                  >>>>>>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to
                                                  >>>>>>> HAVE to use
                                                  >>>>>>> it for very long
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet
                                                  >>>>>>> security
                                                  >>>>>>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about patting
                                                  >>>>>>> itself on
                                                  >>>>>>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that
                                                  >>>>>>> when the
                                                  >>>>>>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to
                                                  >>>>>>> keep the
                                                  >>>>>>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                                                  >>>>>>> Microsoft
                                                  >>>>>>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that
                                                  >>>>>>> Open Office
                                                  >>>>>>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he
                                                  >>>>>>> will use it,
                                                  >>>>>>> and does he want color or just b&w
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                                                  >>>>>>> number)
                                                  >>>>>>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the
                                                  >>>>>>> toner and drum
                                                  >>>>>>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also replacing
                                                  >>>>>>> the drum
                                                  >>>>>>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate components,
                                                  >>>>>>> and the
                                                  >>>>>>> drum is spendy)
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color
                                                  >>>>>>> inkjet, and
                                                  >>>>>>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                                                  >>>>>>> share the
                                                  >>>>>>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short
                                                  >>>>>>> time
                                                  >>>>>>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using
                                                  >>>>>>> it every
                                                  >>>>>>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in
                                                  >>>>>>> her plant
                                                  >>>>>>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the
                                                  >>>>>>> ink head
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>>
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>
                                                  >

                                                  • 22. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                    Level 7
                                                    I do when I have to. But it's not first out of my ditty bag, you know? So,
                                                    I'm not so fluent with Flash stuff....

                                                    --
                                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                    ==================
                                                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    ==================


                                                    "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                                    news:g5g7k1$cuc$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    > Ok, I'll bite. Why?
                                                    >
                                                    > I don't like any technology when it's abused, but why not, for instance,
                                                    > use Flash to present an audio clip on a web site?
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                    > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                    > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                    > --
                                                    >
                                                    > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                    > news:g5g6rh$c6k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >> Yeah. 8)
                                                    >>
                                                    >> --
                                                    >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                    >> Adobe Community Expert
                                                    >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                    >> ==================
                                                    >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >> ==================
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                                    >> message news:g5g6jl$bvm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>> In general? Really??
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> --
                                                    >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                    >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                    >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                    >>> --
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                    >>> news:g5g4j8$9qs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>>> No sorry. I eschew in the general direction of Flash. 8)
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> --
                                                    >>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                    >>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                                    >>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                    >>>> ==================
                                                    >>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >>>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >>>> ==================
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                                    >>>> message news:g5g483$9hb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>>>> Murray, you don't have any idea about my Flash audio player display
                                                    >>>>> problem, my other thread? :-\
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> --
                                                    >>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                    >>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                    >>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                    >>>>> --
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                    >>>>> news:g5g40l$96v$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>>>>>I have a dot matrix printer you can HAVE! Got a free parallel port?
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> --
                                                    >>>>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                    >>>>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                                    >>>>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                    >>>>>> ==================
                                                    >>>>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >>>>>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    >>>>>> ==================
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                                    >>>>>> message news:g5g3oj$918$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>>>>>> Great minds think alike, I guess, John, because those are all of the
                                                    >>>>>>> considerations my brother and I have been talking about endlessly
                                                    >>>>>>> for the past few weeks, and we've come to the same conclusions as
                                                    >>>>>>> you on just about everything.
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> Windows Vista will take care of a lot of security issues. We're
                                                    >>>>>>> going to set him up with the free AVG Anti-Virus so that he doesn't
                                                    >>>>>>> have to keep paying.
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> And yes, if there's such thing as a simple black-and-white inkjet
                                                    >>>>>>> printer left in the world, I hope we can find it! :-)
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> --
                                                    >>>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                    >>>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                    >>>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                    >>>>>>> --
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> "John T Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                    >>>>>>> news:g5fvlv$4jb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >>>>>>>>A few other (random) thoughts
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> A USB mouse will most likely be easier to use than the built in
                                                    >>>>>>>> mouse pad...
                                                    >>>>>>>> my wife (main user, when it is used) and I just do not like rubbing
                                                    >>>>>>>> a thumb
                                                    >>>>>>>> across a section of the computer
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Once he uses it it awhile, you may need to add a USB keyboard... I
                                                    >>>>>>>> took our
                                                    >>>>>>>> laptop with me when I was on a week long training trip recently,
                                                    >>>>>>>> and
                                                    >>>>>>>> "struggled" with the keyboard a bit... and this is on a wide model
                                                    >>>>>>>> to
                                                    >>>>>>>> accomodate the wide screen... it was usable, but I wouldn't want to
                                                    >>>>>>>> HAVE to use
                                                    >>>>>>>> it for very long
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Sadly... make sure it has (or buy and install) a good Internet
                                                    >>>>>>>> security
                                                    >>>>>>>> program... I use Norton which is "OK" if a bit "noisy" about
                                                    >>>>>>>> patting itself on
                                                    >>>>>>>> the back with notice popups... but do make sure you tell him that
                                                    >>>>>>>> when the
                                                    >>>>>>>> introductory period is over, he MUST pay the subscription fee to
                                                    >>>>>>>> keep the
                                                    >>>>>>>> product up to date so his computer doesn't get infected
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> I work at a University so get good prices (sometimes free) on all
                                                    >>>>>>>> Microsoft
                                                    >>>>>>>> products... so use MS Office to match work... but I've read that
                                                    >>>>>>>> Open Office
                                                    >>>>>>>> does very well, so he should be happy with that
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> If you also buy him a printer, consider how much and how often he
                                                    >>>>>>>> will use it,
                                                    >>>>>>>> and does he want color or just b&w
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> For b&w I use an HP 1012 at work (current model is probably a later
                                                    >>>>>>>> number)
                                                    >>>>>>>> which is reasonably fast and, like all HP of that size, has the
                                                    >>>>>>>> toner and drum
                                                    >>>>>>>> in one unit so every time the toner runs out, you are also
                                                    >>>>>>>> replacing the drum
                                                    >>>>>>>> (Brother multi-function laser I have at home is separate
                                                    >>>>>>>> components, and the
                                                    >>>>>>>> drum is spendy)
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> For color, I would stay AWAY from Epson... we had an Epson color
                                                    >>>>>>>> inkjet, and
                                                    >>>>>>>> found that if you didn't use it every day (which we didn't since we
                                                    >>>>>>>> share the
                                                    >>>>>>>> Brother laser) the ink jets would dry out and clog in a very short
                                                    >>>>>>>> time
                                                    >>>>>>>> (replaced by Epson twice, then we just threw it away)
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Wife now uses a Canon (can't remember the model) and even not using
                                                    >>>>>>>> it every
                                                    >>>>>>>> day (just when she wants to print a garden pic with color, to go in
                                                    >>>>>>>> her plant
                                                    >>>>>>>> book... or a snapshot of someone) she's not had problems with the
                                                    >>>>>>>> ink head
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>
                                                    >

                                                    • 23. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                      Level 7

                                                      "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                                      news:g5g4h8$9p9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                      >> The last thing he needs to do is have to deal with a touchpad WHILE he's
                                                      >> climbing that whole learning curve.
                                                      >
                                                      > I wonder...mice can be problematic for anyone that's never used a
                                                      > computer. I wonder if they really are any more confusing than a trackpad
                                                      > for anyone that hasn't really used computers. It'd be an interesting
                                                      > study...
                                                      >
                                                      > Our generation probably can't think of using anything but the mouse, but
                                                      > the previous generation probably can't stand anything but the keyboard,
                                                      > and the new generation probably can't stand anything that's not an iphone
                                                      > touch screen or miniscule 10-digit texting keyboard. ;o)

                                                      I don't think there's any issue of being "confused". The issue is that a
                                                      trackpad is just physically a lot harder to use than a mouse.

                                                      --
                                                      Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                      Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                      Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                      --

                                                      • 24. OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                        polar_bare Level 4
                                                        I have a gateway, which is running Vista. Not sure of the model, but not a new one. The processor is a desktop processor quad duo. It has been ok, but the battery life is not very good.

                                                        HP business class notebooks are what my son-in-law likes, and he is a software engineer for MS. He has tried Gateway, Dells and seems to like his HP. People here at work like the Dells. They buy exclusive Dell Notebooks.

                                                        One think is the memory. Think about how much you think you need, then double it. Screen size for him would be better at the 17" screen because of his age. Let him try the touchpad, unless he has fat fingers like myself. If he has never used a mouse, then the touchpad might be ok.

                                                        If he is just going to check his email and a little bit of word processing, then toshiba would be ok. On the printer though, if he is mostly going to print B/W, then I would highly recommend a laser as it will be cheaper in the long run. My wife is a teacher and going through the ink cart. was very expensive. I purchased a HP 1200 and it has saved us a lot of money. Brother makes some nice, cheaper lasers and the color lasers are coming down in price also.
                                                        • 25. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                          Level 7
                                                          > I don't think there's any issue of being "confused". The issue is that a
                                                          > trackpad is just physically a lot harder to use than a mouse.

                                                          Is it? I think for you and me it is, but I've taught classes to new computer
                                                          users where the mouse was completely unintuitive for them. A lot of users
                                                          still don't realize that you don't need to double-click everything ;o)

                                                          It was more of a curiosity question. I don't think a mouse is necessarily
                                                          anymore intuitive than a track pad to the completely unitiated. It'd be hard
                                                          to do a study, but it would be interested to see which was more intuitive
                                                          starting from a dead start.

                                                          -Darrel


                                                          • 26. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                            Level 7

                                                            "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                                            news:g5gb4m$gka$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                            >> I don't think there's any issue of being "confused". The issue is that a
                                                            >> trackpad is just physically a lot harder to use than a mouse.
                                                            >
                                                            > Is it? I think for you and me it is, but I've taught classes to new
                                                            > computer users where the mouse was completely unintuitive for them. A lot
                                                            > of users still don't realize that you don't need to double-click
                                                            > everything ;o)
                                                            >
                                                            > It was more of a curiosity question. I don't think a mouse is necessarily
                                                            > anymore intuitive than a track pad to the completely unitiated. It'd be
                                                            > hard to do a study, but it would be interested to see which was more
                                                            > intuitive starting from a dead start.

                                                            Your thoughts are interesting on how intuitive each type of pointer is, but
                                                            I'm really not concerned about the intuitiveness, because he would he would
                                                            get the "what" and "how" quickly enough. I'm strictly talking about the
                                                            literal physical difficulty level. When I need to accomplish a task
                                                            requiring fine motor skills, I'm a lot better doing that using several of my
                                                            fingers and my opposable thumb than with a tiny part of one fingernail. I'm
                                                            pretty certain I'm not the only one.


                                                            --
                                                            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                            --



                                                            • 27. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                              polar_bare Level 4
                                                              I think that it is just as simple as, "Do you prefer an automatic or stick shift?" Some people do both. I use a mouse on my desktop, but prefer the touchpad on my notebook because of the portability of it.

                                                              If you father is going to use it sitting at his desk, then a mouse will work. But I still believe that learning both will be more beneficial. I prefer a stick shift, but drive an automatic also!
                                                              • 28. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                polar_bare Level 4
                                                                I think that it is just as simple as, "Do you prefer an automatic or stick shift?" Some people do both. I use a mouse on my desktop, but prefer the touchpad on my notebook because of the portability of it.

                                                                If your father is going to use it sitting at his desk, then a mouse will work. But I still believe that learning both will be more beneficial. I prefer a stick shift, but drive an automatic also!
                                                                • 29. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  YOU HAVE AN OPPOSABLE THUMB? WHY WASN'T I INFORMED?

                                                                  --
                                                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                  ==================
                                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  ==================


                                                                  "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                                                  news:g5gdd3$ivs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  >
                                                                  > "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                                                  > news:g5gb4m$gka$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  >>> I don't think there's any issue of being "confused". The issue is that a
                                                                  >>> trackpad is just physically a lot harder to use than a mouse.
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> Is it? I think for you and me it is, but I've taught classes to new
                                                                  >> computer users where the mouse was completely unintuitive for them. A lot
                                                                  >> of users still don't realize that you don't need to double-click
                                                                  >> everything ;o)
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> It was more of a curiosity question. I don't think a mouse is necessarily
                                                                  >> anymore intuitive than a track pad to the completely unitiated. It'd be
                                                                  >> hard to do a study, but it would be interested to see which was more
                                                                  >> intuitive starting from a dead start.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Your thoughts are interesting on how intuitive each type of pointer is,
                                                                  > but I'm really not concerned about the intuitiveness, because he would he
                                                                  > would get the "what" and "how" quickly enough. I'm strictly talking about
                                                                  > the literal physical difficulty level. When I need to accomplish a task
                                                                  > requiring fine motor skills, I'm a lot better doing that using several of
                                                                  > my fingers and my opposable thumb than with a tiny part of one fingernail.
                                                                  > I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one.
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > --
                                                                  > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                  > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                  > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                  > --
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >

                                                                  • 30. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    Yah, I don't like to make a big deal out of it. :-) I walk upright
                                                                    sometimes, too.


                                                                    --
                                                                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                    --

                                                                    "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                                    news:g5gfq6$lf6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    > YOU HAVE AN OPPOSABLE THUMB? WHY WASN'T I INFORMED?
                                                                    >
                                                                    > --
                                                                    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                    > Adobe Community Expert
                                                                    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                    > ==================
                                                                    > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                    > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                    > ==================
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                                                    > news:g5gdd3$ivs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
                                                                    >> news:g5gb4m$gka$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    >>>> I don't think there's any issue of being "confused". The issue is that
                                                                    >>>> a trackpad is just physically a lot harder to use than a mouse.
                                                                    >>>
                                                                    >>> Is it? I think for you and me it is, but I've taught classes to new
                                                                    >>> computer users where the mouse was completely unintuitive for them. A
                                                                    >>> lot of users still don't realize that you don't need to double-click
                                                                    >>> everything ;o)
                                                                    >>>
                                                                    >>> It was more of a curiosity question. I don't think a mouse is
                                                                    >>> necessarily anymore intuitive than a track pad to the completely
                                                                    >>> unitiated. It'd be hard to do a study, but it would be interested to see
                                                                    >>> which was more intuitive starting from a dead start.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> Your thoughts are interesting on how intuitive each type of pointer is,
                                                                    >> but I'm really not concerned about the intuitiveness, because he would he
                                                                    >> would get the "what" and "how" quickly enough. I'm strictly talking about
                                                                    >> the literal physical difficulty level. When I need to accomplish a task
                                                                    >> requiring fine motor skills, I'm a lot better doing that using several of
                                                                    >> my fingers and my opposable thumb than with a tiny part of one
                                                                    >> fingernail. I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> --
                                                                    >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                    >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                    >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                    >> --
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >

                                                                    • 31. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                      Level 7

                                                                      "polar_bare" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                                      news:g5gfji$la6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                      >I think that it is just as simple as, "Do you prefer an automatic or stick
                                                                      > shift?" Some people do both. I use a mouse on my desktop, but prefer the
                                                                      > touchpad on my notebook because of the portability of it.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > If your father is going to use it sitting at his desk, then a mouse will
                                                                      > work.
                                                                      > But I still believe that learning both will be more beneficial. I prefer a
                                                                      > stick shift, but drive an automatic also!

                                                                      Well.. the comparison doesn't totally apply. But to use it: if I were
                                                                      teaching my 15-year-old sister to drive a car for the first time, I would do
                                                                      it in an automatic, so that she would have one less thing to worry about.
                                                                      Then, once she had a little practice and confidence at that, I'd introduce
                                                                      manual-shift driving.

                                                                      I'm talking about that first few hours on a computer. It's just a LOT easier
                                                                      to move that cursor where you want it using several fingers and a thumb,
                                                                      than using a finger.


                                                                      --
                                                                      Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                      Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                      Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                      --

                                                                      • 32. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:30:30 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                                                                        <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote:

                                                                        >My Dad is buying a laptop and it's the job of my brother and I to pick it
                                                                        >out. He's 81 years old and was vice president of a major New York
                                                                        >advertising agency for many years; now he's getting his VERY FIRST computer.
                                                                        >:-)
                                                                        >

                                                                        will he appear on this forum in a few months - asking for help with
                                                                        designing his website using Dw :-))

                                                                        --

                                                                        ~Malcolm~*...
                                                                        ~*
                                                                        • 33. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                          Level 7

                                                                          "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
                                                                          news:adlo74935vgiu8sikr9kc0glofj2601o4t@4ax.com...
                                                                          > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:30:30 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                                                                          > <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          >>My Dad is buying a laptop and it's the job of my brother and I to pick it
                                                                          >>out. He's 81 years old and was vice president of a major New York
                                                                          >>advertising agency for many years; now he's getting his VERY FIRST
                                                                          >>computer.
                                                                          >>:-)
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > will he appear on this forum in a few months - asking for help with
                                                                          > designing his website using Dw :-))

                                                                          I'm afraid you probably won't have that honor. :-)

                                                                          --
                                                                          Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                          Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                          Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                          --

                                                                          • 34. Re: OT: Toshiba and HP laptops
                                                                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                                            >I walk upright sometimes, too

                                                                            Wait a minute... what does that mean for the rest of us who are still swinging from tree branches?

                                                                            Also... watch out for the Sabre Tooth Tigers... they don't climb so well, but they've got 4 legs for more speed than you "early adopters" of the upright position

                                                                            I will now go back to chipping flint