7 Replies Latest reply on Oct 28, 2009 11:42 AM by sonicDream

    Any special reason for this behavior...?

    sonicDream Level 3

      Is there any special reason why the Process Black shows in ink separation list, when the only black i have is an an object with applied shadow in a hidden and unprintable layer and no other object has black as fill or stroke in any of the visible layers? Thanks for any tips ...

        • 1. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
          Gustavo Del Vechio Level 3

          It just consider the black process or black process contains informations?

          • 2. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

            The separations preview is just what it implies - an overview of the inks used in the doc, based on the assumption that the document is going to be printed at some point using a standard process. It doesn't matter, whether the objects are invisible, non-printable or what else. AI has no concept of these things. And you can't print anything without any kind of ink, can you? I really don't see why you think it's a problem. If you use non-standard printing processes, then you create extra spot colors and separations, but that's a whole different matter. For everything else it realyl doesn't matter. The only thing of importance is the document color swatch, based on which separations are calculated.

             

            Mylenium

            • 3. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
              sonicDream Level 3

              My problem with it is the following ... if i create let's say 3 layers and i put a shape in each of them, 1st filled with spot color 1(Layer 1), 2nd with filled with spot color 2(Layer 2) and 3rd filled with a spot color 3(Layer 3), if i uncheck Print and Visible for the first 2 layers(Layer 1 & Layer 2), i`'ll get only Spot Color 3 as selected in separation list(with the "Print Visible & Printable layers" only option selected).

              *notice that i use spot colors and not process colors*

              Now if i set a drop shadow filter to the first shape in Layer 1, filled with Spot Color 1 and redo the above action(unchecking Visible and Print to Layer 1(which has the shape with the drop shadow filter) & Layer 2), even if i only have a shape filled with Spot Color 3 in the remaining layer, the separation will show as active, Spot Color 3 and Process Black which imho is not right or i`m half insane. If i choose Visible & Printable layers, seems like normal that the separation list will show as selected the colors used in visible and printable layers, and not some color that's not infact in what i want to print.

               

              *later edit* i`m talking about the separations list in the print dialog, not the panel. My mistake not clarifying the hole thing.

               

              Hope i made myself understood.

              Thanks for your time.

              Have a nice day.

               

              Message was edited by: sonicDream

              • 4. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
                JETalmage Level 6
                The separations preview is just what it implies - an overview of the inks used in the doc, based on the assumption that the document is going to be printed at some point using a standard process. It doesn't matter, whether the objects are invisible, non-printable or what else. AI has no concept of these things. And you can't print anything without any kind of ink, can you? I really don't see why you think it's a problem.

                 

                Indeed?

                (When in doubt, pound the pulpit.)

                 

                The document is empty except for four squares.

                The blue is process global.

                The orange is process non-global.

                The green is spot.

                The black is 100%K.

                The black is on its own layer.

                The green is on its own layer.

                The blue and orange are on the same layer.

                 

                Screenshots are from the Output tab of the Print dialog. Mode is Separations. Printer is Adobe PDF.

                 

                All Layer visibility on:

                 

                 

                Layer containing the green spot color visibility off. Note that the green sep will not print:

                 

                 

                Layers containing the green and the black visibility off:

                 

                 

                Layer containing the black is off.

                The only difference here is that a 40% K drop shadow has been applied to the black path:

                 

                 

                The only difference here is that the drop shadow has been removed from the black path:

                 

                 

                Clearly, AI does have some "concept about these things." But AI's "concept" about this--like so many other things--is rather illogical.

                 

                JET

                • 5. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
                  sonicDream Level 3

                  We got it all messed up ... while you outlined the problem very well JET, for which i'll say "BIG THANKS", Myllenium was talking about a total different thing and that is the Separations Preview Panel in the View menu. Though trusting blindly a software known for its issues and not testing before writing is not the way to go. In the end this should go to the BUGs area, or the flee one as it makes no difference. CS5 will have the same issue.

                   

                  Thank you very much again JET.

                  Have a nice day.

                   

                  *later edit* i won't go deeper with this and say that also the scripting engine is bugged also on this chapter. If you'll make a simple javascript to show inks and their types in a document with CMYK colorspace, you'll find out something awesome ... Process Black is a RGB color, as well as any other of the cyan, yellow, magenta inks. So in the end the only way to go, is starting again from the c++ sdk and go upper.

                  • 6. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
                    JETalmage Level 6

                    The scripting engine thinks a Global color is a Spot Color, whether it's process or spot--something I've been pointing out for years.

                     

                    JET

                    • 7. Re: Any special reason for this behavior...?
                      sonicDream Level 3

                      The hillarious part is that it shows process colors in a CMYK DocumentColorSpace as RGB colors(wth??!?!). Beside that i`ve discovered in the last 5 days while i tried the scripting engine, more than a dozen bugs in the scripting color model/inks/swatches which I won't even bother to point out. The funniest part is that the behaviour is different from one platform to another, taking the scripting engine close to a useless feature in many cases. But that's life ... someday when internet will be accesed through telepathy and you'll write your blog the same way, these bugs will be fixed ... so no worries

                       

                      Thanks again for your help in sorting this "misunderstanding of Illy <<features>>".

                      Have a great day.