27 Replies Latest reply on Apr 28, 2010 7:40 PM by joshtownsend

    Elemental Accelerator

    Sloz Level 1

      Is anyone out there successfuly utilizing elemental accelerator 2.1 or 2.2 to edit AVCHD video in PPro CS 4.1?  If so, I would love to hear what your experience with it has been. I am not having any luck so far.The Mainconcept encoder that comes with PPro works perfectly, but no go with the elemental encoder. Why bother? I have been asking myself the same question, but supposedly the elemental encoder should use the GPU to encode much faster.

       

      System:

      NVIDIA Quadro FX4800 191.00 driver

      Intel Core i7 975 3.33 GHZ

      12 gb Ram

      Vista 64
      Premiere Pro CS4.1

      Elemental Accelerator just upgraded to version 2.2

       

      Thanks for your input

        • 1. Re: Elemental Accelerator
          elementech

          Hello,

           

          I'm the product manager for Elemental Accelerator and would like to help here. If you'd like to get in touch directly with Elemental at support@elementaltechnologies.com your inquiry will be directed to me. You should absolutely be able to GPU-accelerate the export of AVCHD video streams!

           

          Lisa

          • 2. Re: Elemental Accelerator
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Lisa,

             

            Welcome to the forum.

             

            I'm the product manager for Elemental Accelerator and would like to help here.

            Now, I am not a MOD here, so please take my comments as those of a user. I think it would be appropriate to help the OP in this thread. I realize that the slope gets a bit slippery, but if your input can help the OP and maybe others, the forum will be served.

             

            I am not familiar with your product, and would assume that others might not be, as well. Techincal help is always appreciated here, and is welcome. Adobe has been committed to providing the ultimate experience for its clients, and this forum is a great indication.

             

            I personally call upon a few tech reps, for hardware and software, where I feel they might be able to help a poster. I've gotten SmartSound TS involved in several threads on the Adobe fora, because they could help beyond what I could. I even run some posts past them for technical editing, prior to my uploading them.

             

            Now, if Jeff, or Jerry.K have other ideas, I am sure that they will chime in. Not to steal a news network's tag, but I feel that Adobe fora are "fair and balanced," so long as it helps the users.

             

            Hunt

             

            PS - do consider the slippery slope, but help away.

            • 3. Re: Elemental Accelerator
              Sloz Level 1

              What you say is quite true but I need to add that Lisa and I have been in constant communication trying to solve the EA problems (she didn't know it was me who put the post on this form as my forum name is different than my email name) emailing back and forth several times a day. I don't know what the outcome will be with this software, but I have to say that the responsiveness of their tech support has been amazing. The reason I posted was that if I knew some people were successfully using EA, I would be more hopeful of a successful conclusion. It's always great to hear from official support people (although most companies don't offer the quality of support that Elemental does) but I have learned as much or more from fellow users editing in the real world and battling the software demons than I have from "official" tech reps. Fortunately, through this forum, I have access to both.

              • 4. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                VPTraining Level 1

                I would love to hear if this works well. Any time saved rendering is valuable of course. Since we farmed out some rendering to some idle machines, it is not as urgent as it has been at least.

                Rick

                • 5. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  It's always great to hear from official support people (although most companies don't offer the quality of support that Elemental does) but I have learned as much or more from fellow users editing in the real world and battling the software demons than I have from "official" tech reps.

                   

                  This has been my experience with the Adobe fora too. Now, 3rd party stuff can be different, but I generally recommend that anyone with an Adobe program problem post to the fora first, and probably not need to ever test Adobe TS/CS, unless its an EULA/licensing issue, or some really obscure installation problems. Nearly every other issue has been resolved by the subscribers in these fora - very few failures, so long as the poster follows the tips and suggestions, and does not go off on a rant-tangent.

                   

                  As your discussion is likely to help others. That is where I was going with my earlier post.

                   

                  Please keep everyone updated,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                    elementech Level 1

                    Hi All,

                     

                    We've identified this as a third party issue and are working with the vendor to resolve it as quickly as possible. When a fix is available, I'd be happy to update this thread with a link.

                     

                    Lisa

                    • 7. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                      Sloz Level 1

                      Hello,

                      A bit of followup for the forum. In spite of truly epic efforts by Lisa and the support team at Elemental Accelerator, the software problems have yet to be resolved at least for my editing needs. It seems that the problem is with the NVIDIA driver. The EA team did put out a workaround that resolved the AME crash problems but at this point, I have found out that:

                       

                      1. EA only shows acceleration for H.264 encoding and although my source is H.264 (.MTS), this software is not designed to accelerate encoding to .mpg or avi.

                       

                      2. EA is not able to encode key framed opacity changes, ie fade in / fade out of clips or titles using key frame opacity changes

                       

                      3. EA seems to be unable to encode any of the stock adobe video transitions (ie cross dissolves, additive dissolves etc) and when it encounters these transitions it defaluts to the stock MainConcepts encoder. Because of this, EA actually encodes a timeline with simple transitions SLOWER than the stock encoder that comes with PPro CS4.1

                       

                      At this time, I have uninstalled Elemental Accelerator, but being the eternal optomist...when the new NVIDIA driver revision comes out, I will reinstall the EA and try it again. For the time being, the stock MainConcepts encoder meets all my needs and the rendering time is certainly tolerable. I will put my Elemental Accelerator disc into my "Things I Wish I Hadn't Purchased" museum......shelved neatly between my Ford Edsel owner's manual and folder of Enron stock certificates.

                       

                      Until EA and NVIDIA iron out their incompatabilities, my advice is to save your money and invest it in an extra bag or two of good Costa Rican coffee to sip while you wait for the encoding to finish.

                      • 8. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Thanks for the advise. That might give me around two years of nice coffee, supplemented with a Cuban cigar until the combo Adobe/nVidia are ready for the real world..

                        • 9. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          1. was already known.  This info is all over the web, thus the discussions about the viability of the plug-in for most folks, given it's price.

                           

                          2. and 3. are a surprise, though.

                          • 10. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            Thanks for the advise. That might give me around two years of nice coffee, supplemented with a Cuban cigar until the combo Adobe/nVidia are ready for the real world..

                             

                            I'd also add a copita of Taylor-Fladgate 20 Year Tawny!

                             

                            I find it odd that about the time that Adobe and nVidia teamed up on the CUDA project, things started going very wrong. Glad that my nVidias are older, and their drivers have yet to cause any issues - the operative word is "yet," and I am keeping the updates to a bare minimum, plus retention of the older nVidia drivers as a backup.

                             

                            Thanks for the report, and good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                              Sloz Level 1

                              Hello All,

                               

                              A final note on this Elemental Accelerator mess if I may. NVIDIA just offered the new driver (191.22) and I downloaded it and reinstalled the latest version of EA (2.2.1.1517) and all the problems remain the same. EA is unable to handle any opacity changes and when it encounters a stock PPro transition like cross dissolve it hands the encoding off to the MainConcepts encoder and in the process manages to encode the average timeline about 10% SLOWER than the MainConcepts encoder. Maybe it is me, my system, bad Karma or the Volcano Gods.....but in my book Elemental Accelerator is a No Go.

                               

                              Cheers,

                              Phil Slosberg

                              Arenal Observatory, Costa Rica

                              • 12. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                boris_jensen

                                Elemental Accelerator is also a No Go from here.

                                Got it last night for the price of 250$... stupid me... damit.

                                 

                                Did alot of tests - ..

                                But cant get any real accelerations out of it.

                                 

                                Even with 2 x FX3800 i cant see any real gains.

                                 

                                Also did some tests with the Divide frame GPU decode plugin

                                - here i see alot of decode gain in premiere (can edit realtime in full hd, even with some effects) with my Canon 7D files (AVCHD)

                                - but it wont speed up export. :-(

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                AVCHD files from Canon 7d

                                Intel qx9450 / 8gig ram.

                                Vista64 / Premiere CS4.2 /elemental acc 2.2xx

                                2 x FX3800 quadro + newest driver

                                • 13. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                  boris_jensen Level 1

                                  And here are some numbers....

                                   

                                  It works OK with HDV files..

                                  But with Canon 7d it works more as an De-Accelerator (and an VERY expensive one)..

                                   

                                   

                                  Elemental Accelerator 2.2.1 tests

                                  In Adobe Media Encoder 4.2.006

                                   

                                  Native = Intel Q9450 Quadcore

                                   

                                  M2T 1440x1080 25P video to MPEG2 720@25P

                                  native     1:28Min

                                  1 x FX3800   46Sek

                                  2 x FX3800   35Sek

                                   

                                  1080P MOV AVCHD (canon 7d) video to MPEG2 720@25P

                                  native      5:36Min

                                  1 x FX3800  5:46Min

                                  2 x FX3800  6:38Min

                                   

                                  Full HD Cineform avi to BlueRay H264 1080@25P

                                  Native        47Sek

                                  1 x FX3800    28Sek

                                  2 x FX3800    28Sek

                                   

                                  HV30 file to a PAL dvd

                                  Native      1:05Sek

                                  1 x FX3800    41Sek

                                  2 x FX3800    29Sek

                                   

                                  1080P MOV AVCHD (canon 7d) video to PAL DVD

                                  Native      1:42Min

                                  1 x FX3800  1:45Min 

                                  2 x FX3800  1:48Min

                                  • 14. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                    robhambro

                                    Actually, I've found that EA (I'm using version 2.2.1.1568 on a single Quadro FX3800) is pretty useless on HDV too, unless it's pretty plain vanilla. In reading its log file I see that it complains about any transition that is not centered at the cut ("SetTransition: Transition not supported (Center at Cut) ADBE Cross Dissolve") and it complains about off-speed clips ("Media not routable: Clip speed not supported"). The result is that EA actually slows my encoding compared to Adobe's encoder. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on this dog.

                                    • 15. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                      boris_jensen Level 1

                                      robhambro wrote:

                                       

                                      The result is that EA actually slows my encoding compared to Adobe's encoder. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on this dog.

                                      +1

                                       

                                      I complained about it and got my money back.

                                      - You should try to do that to !!!!!!!

                                      • 16. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                        robhambro Level 1

                                        Thanks, that’s good to know!

                                        • 17. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                          Studio North Films Level 3

                                          hi,

                                           

                                          I have elemental plugin version 2.2.1 and quadro fx5800 with nvidia drivers 191.87

                                           

                                          test results

                                           

                                          AVCHD 1440 X 1080i PAL 25

                                          Eported to mpeg 2 pal high quality 16x9.

                                           

                                          10 min footage

                                           

                                          elemental 4min 24sec

                                          ame 5 min 34 sec

                                           

                                          If anyone would like any other comparisons then let m know.

                                           

                                          baz

                                           

                                          windows 7 64 bit

                                          i7-920

                                          12gb Ram

                                          • 18. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                            joshtownsend Level 2

                                            Whenever Mecury Playback Engine comes out, I hope there's not problems like this everytime a Nvidia puts out a new 64bit driver.

                                             

                                             

                                            Remember when Elemental Accelerator only worked with the 2000 dollar quatro card?

                                             

                                             

                                            Badaboom (stand alone GPU encoder) works brilliant even though I never use it (except for encoding video for my iphone )

                                            • 19. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                              Studio North Films Level 3

                                              update:

                                               

                                              elemental plugin.

                                               

                                              HDV 1920 x1080i pal

                                               

                                              1 hour 54 min 43 sec

                                               

                                              exported to m-peg 2 dvd M2V pal high quality

                                               

                                              37 mins 57 secs.

                                              • 20. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                Marty Miller

                                                Hello All,

                                                 

                                                Been researching Elemental Accelerator and it sounds like it's not real beneficial and actually can cause problems with CS3/4.

                                                 

                                                Any ideas if this will still be true with CS5?  I'm updating my production box for CS5 and putting in a Quadro FX 4800, should I order it with Elemental Accelerator or save myself $150.00 and skip Elemental.

                                                 

                                                Thanks,

                                                Marty

                                                • 21. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                  Try it without AE first.

                                                  • 22. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                    joshtownsend Level 2

                                                    Shouldn't the MPE make Elemental Acceleration totally useless? Or does MPE only come into play with effects...not transcoding?

                                                    • 23. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                      MPE works both with renders and with encoding. It looks like EA is indeed superfluous, as many have discovered and asked for a refund, since there was no apperciable performance gain.

                                                      • 24. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                        Marty Miller Level 1

                                                        Thanks guys, you just saved me a $150, a virtual round of beers are on me!!

                                                         

                                                        Marty

                                                        • 25. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                          PedroAlberto Level 1

                                                          Strange.

                                                           

                                                          I have the quadro fx 3800 and I saw major gains when exporting using elemental accelerator.

                                                           

                                                          I don't know about the previous versions of it but the latest version DOES help if you export a lot.

                                                           

                                                          Simon

                                                          p.s.

                                                          As for CS5, it will be interesting to see if it is needed or not. But they are making a version for CS5.

                                                          • 26. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                            jabloomf1230 Level 1

                                                            Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                             

                                                            MPE works both with renders and with encoding. It looks like EA is indeed superfluous, as many have discovered and asked for a refund, since there was no apperciable performance gain.

                                                            I hope you're right about that, because everything that has been posted about the MPE by Adobe is that it substantially speeds up rendering only. However, since when you encode, you also have to render the timeline first, you do get a small boost when encoding. If the codec being used takes advantage of CUDA, then you would get  a bigger enhancement, but most codecs don't. The EA uses CUDA for hardware encoding of H264 and MPEG2. Theroretically, it should work in tandem with MPE.

                                                             

                                                            Also, I noticed that a few people were concerned that nVidia's habit of contantly updating its video drivers might be a problem with MPE. Keep in mind that almost all the updates are to accomodate either new video games or new video cards. Although CUDA is also updated, those revisions happen far more infrequently. Further, unless you are trying to eke out a few more FPS from your latest video game, there is usually no reason to upgrade your video drivers. Rarely, there are bugs that are corrected, but if you look at nVidia's release notes, they hardly ever list anything that relates to CUDA, The improvements are specific to certain games and hardware.

                                                            • 27. Re: Elemental Accelerator
                                                              joshtownsend Level 2

                                                              Maybe Elemental will speed up rendering with the 3rd party plug-ins that aren't  MPE accelerated (if there are any at all)