31 Replies Latest reply on Nov 6, 2009 4:53 AM by dradeke

    CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4

    RuudOost

      Hi,

       

      I want to buy a new PC with multiple Nividia graphiccards for Premiere.

      Will Premiere use these multiple GPU for redering and encoding movies. I want to create h.264 1080p movies.

      I not, does someone have an other suggestion then...

       

      Regards,

        • 1. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          The question is whether the additional investment over any good video card can not be better used to improve the overall system in terms of better CPU, more memory, more disk speed and capacity, which will give you much better overall performance than only while encoding to H.264.

           

          If all you do is encoding to H.264, the additional investment of over $ 1K may be worth it. If you do other things as well, like editing, using AE, EN, PS and the like, IMO you are better off investing that $ 1K+ in better components. CUDA is a great hype, and a costly one at that, nothing more.

          • 2. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
            RuudOost Level 1

            Hi,

             

            The configuration will be likely this;

             

            Core i7 Proc.

            Asus P6T xxx Mobo

            12GB mem

            SSD drive for OS (Win. 7 64bit) and app’s

            2 HDD in RAID 0 for Data and video

             

            One or more suitable graphic card(s), but I don’t know which one to choose. So some advice in graphic card(s) would be nice.

            Yes, this system will also be used for AE, EN, PS and so on.

             

            Regards,

            • 3. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Ruud,

               

              If you haven't seen these articles yet, it may be a good idea to read them. A lot of people found them helpful: How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...

               

              Any recent graphics card will do for most editing work. I'm partial to ATI and anything like an HD4830 or better will do. Video cards are not the determining factor in performance. Performance is largely determined in the following order:

               

              1. CPU

              2. Memory

              3. Disk setup

              ...

              ...

              9. Video card.

               

              Things change when your work includes 3D applications like Maya, Poser, Vue, and the like. Then the impact of the video card is much bigger and a good video card in that case would be something like the HD5870.

               

              I really believe that for the moment CUDA is only marketing hype and not worth the money. Given the benchmark results I have achieved with my system, which has an ATI HD4870 in it, I think the investment made in other components instead of a more expensive video card has born fruit.

               

              For your intended system, you would certainly profit from a better disk setup with more hard disks which will help performance more than a more expensive video card.

               

              If you look at these results, with a clock speed of 3441 MHz,

               

              Passmark 3,4.jpg

              and compare these with the Top-20 list here: http://www.passmark.com/baselines/top.html

              you will notice that at very moderate overclocking my system is the only single CPU below 4000+ clock speed in that list and the top position is also my system, albeit at higher clock speed. Also on the http://ppbm4.com/Benchmark.html results my results are telling.

              • 4. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                D&R Films Level 1

                Actually the GTX280 is closer to $500. If you already have a very fast i7 with tons of ram, then $500 would be a wise investment to speed up your applications.

                • 5. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                  D&R Films Level 1

                  hmm... Many cards support CUDA according to nvidia: LINK TO CUDA PAGE

                   

                  I'm sure you could find an affordable model...

                  • 6. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Yeah, a $ 500 GTX 280 plus a $ 500 plug-in still adds up to $ 1K, in contrast to a $ 80 video card. Your system can be improved enormously for that amount and then some. I maintain CUDA is a hype and a very costly one. Now if someone can show be some benchmark results, maybe I'll change my mind, but all I have seen is fabulous marketing hype and no tangible results.

                    • 7. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                      D&R Films Level 1

                      But that was just one card.. You can get a GT220 for around $80.. add in the $500 Cuda plugin and it may be worth the expense if you already had a fast PC (like myself. i7 920 @3.4ghz, 12GB DDR3, raid...).

                       

                      I'd like to see benchmarks encoding h.264 also as that would help with Blu-Ray a great deal.

                      • 8. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                        spreeni Level 1

                        Is there a recommendation for size of video memory? Actually I think of buying a new graphic card with 512 or 1024 MB Memory. Which one would be better for CS4?

                         

                        spreeni

                        • 9. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          add in the $500 Cuda plugin

                           

                          Man, that just seems pricey for the little you get.  If CUDA accelerated everything, including third party plug-ins like Looks, then maybe.  But all you get is a couple of effects within Premiere and a faster H.264 export.  I already have faster than real time H.264 export.  You'd have to do a LOT of H.264 exports for $500 to really be worth it, I think.

                          • 10. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            512 is enough for Adobe, but the premium to go for 1024 is so small, that I would likely look for a 1024 version.

                            • 11. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                              D&R Films Level 1

                              It's actually $250 now.

                              Nvidia Elemental plugin

                              • 12. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                Apparently only for the Quadro cards, though, which cost much more to begin with.

                                 

                                Quite honestly, if CUDA is to be used at all, it should work with any CUDA capable card, either come with the card or be built into Premiere at no extra charge, and accelerate everything.  Anything less than that makes it a dubious 'advantage', I feel, as you're likely to get better overall performance by putting your money into a better processor or even more memory.

                                • 13. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                  D&R Films Level 1

                                  The $250 deal is if you have a quadro card installed. otherwise it will work with any cuda enabled card but cost $500. So.. $580 for card and plugin vs $650 for FX1800 and plugin.

                                  • 14. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                    dradeke Adobe Employee

                                    You want to invest in a GTX 285 or better.  If you've got the coin, a Quadro 4800 is also a great choice.

                                     

                                    My recommendation takes several things into account.

                                     

                                    Regards,

                                    Dennis

                                    • 15. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                                      My recommendation takes several things into account.

                                       

                                      such as?

                                      • 16. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                        dradeke Adobe Employee
                                        such as?

                                         

                                        Knowledge of our current development as it relates to future versions.

                                        • 17. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Does that also apply to the current top card, the ATI HD5870? Looks better than an end-of-life product, which is what nVidia calls the GTX-285.

                                          • 18. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                            tclark513 Level 3

                                            Yeah...that video demo I saw involving real time color correction (utilizing Cuda) on hd with multiple streams was very impressive.  The response of the program was like editing mini dv.  Looking forward to that!

                                            • 19. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                              Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                              I am building 2 new editing systems for work:

                                               

                                              GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58
                                              $278.99

                                               

                                              Intel i7-920

                                              $288.99

                                               

                                              12GB Crucial DDR3-1600
                                              369.98

                                               

                                              Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB
                                              $229.99

                                               

                                              HIS H587F1GDG Radeon HD 5870
                                              399.99

                                               

                                              SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure
                                              $104.99

                                               

                                              Cooler Master Haf Full Tower 932
                                              $144.98

                                               

                                              Pioneer Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW
                                              12X DVD-RAM 40X CD-R 32X CD-RW 2MB Cache IDE CD/DVD Writer
                                              $44.99

                                               

                                              Corsair CMPSU 740HX
                                              169.99

                                               

                                              Part of my mission at work is to build 2 systems that will not include a component/technology we will later regret.

                                               

                                              After reading Dennis' comments, I am wondering if the 2 ATI 5870's will be a mistake.

                                              Dennis, can you tell us if Nvidia plans to accelerate other tasks such as mp2 encoding, FLV/F4V and DV NTSC rendering and export?

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              • 20. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                I would go even further.

                                                 

                                                Adobe has made the first move by lifting something of the veil off CS5 and telling it is 64 bit only. Great move and long awaited. But in essence it will prevent people from investing in the wrong kind of hardware, that they will regret when CS5 is released. It would be an extension of the first message if Adobe could tell us some of their plans and how it may impact our purchasing decisions. It seems only fair that Dennis is a bit more open about the intended video card use with CS5. Cuda, CL, GL?

                                                • 21. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                  Reading between the lines here and in other threads, I haven't heard

                                                  even a whisper of a hint of a clue that OpenCL will be supported.  Quite

                                                  the contrary, I've heard at least one user complain that CUDA was the

                                                  accelerator of choice and not OpenCL.

                                                   

                                                  Any new video cards on my system will start with the letters nVIDIA.

                                                   

                                                  -Jeff

                                                  • 22. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                    RDA972 Level 3

                                                    CS5 is CUDA-accelerated only so that rules out ATI cards much to Jim's chagrin.

                                                    As Dennis pointed out the 4800 or better yet the 5800  is the way to go provided you have deep pockets.

                                                    The cash-strapped Premiere user can still fall back on the 285 or higher consumer cards.

                                                    I wish Dennis would elaborate on CUDA acceleration though.

                                                    • 23. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                      tclark513 Level 3

                                                      Here is some more info and also where to find the Video Demo:

                                                       

                                                      All,

                                                       

                                                      What Obin has been showing as a technology demo is the blazing fast, 64 bit native Mercury playback engine.

                                                       

                                                      It's in our labs now ..... and it's destination is Premiere Pro in "the future" .... can't say when that is, but as teh FXGuide video and Obin's IBC demos show --- we've at least got a version bolted into Premiere Pro and it's a very happy experience. The GPU acceleration in the lab is nVidia CUDA, so ATI GPUs don't show benefits, and won't when we first bring it to market --- nVidia has been awesome to work with on this, kudos to them.

                                                       

                                                      Because it's a new playback engine it works on every format we feed it (the decoding / import is a different part of Premiere Pro ..... so by time it hits the playback engine everything looks the same ... pixels of data).

                                                       

                                                      The bottleneck will move to disk / to decode ...... as Obin notes, on a solid workstation that makes things like RED super-happy .... same thing for P2 .... we've put 7 layers of 720p with lots and lots of effects on the timeline on a Z800 and it's renderless, realtime goodness.

                                                       

                                                      Every laptop we've seen ends up limited by the laptop memory bandwidth .... so we're focusing our work on workstations ...... think FX4800, FX5800, Quadro CX and similar Fermi cards (nVidia just previewed their next gen, codenamed Fermi --- trust me, you'll want one ;-). We'll also support GTX 285 and similar Fermi cards --- they end up limited to 3 or 4 accelerated layers --- more than that and you need a Quadro.

                                                       

                                                      It's an engine for editing --- After Effects has a different engine with different goals ..... so Mercury is just about Premier Pro futures at this point.

                                                       

                                                      Fun, Fun stuff. Wish I could say more .... like product timing but for now .... it's a fabulous glimpse of the future.

                                                       

                                                      Folk like Mark Pedersen and Obin have access to our super-secret experiments ---- and we know that our RED friends often make for great beta testers --- you do cool, challenging work that makes us raise our game. If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows.

                                                       

                                                      Simon
                                                      • 24. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                        Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                                        I have recently been leaning toward ATI. My i7 920 system at home has an ATI 4830. I think I spent arount $79 for it. Two of our editing systems at work have low end Nvidia cards. They don't give us any issues to speak of.

                                                         

                                                        Sooo... Nvidia it will be in our new systems when the product meets our production needs. I really appreciate the input. I will be purchasing the above posted components minus the 5870's this Monday. Sorry ATI. I think I will use our existing low-end cards and wait until the Nvidia/Adobe performance advantage is available before purchasing any new cards.

                                                         

                                                        2 GTX 285's aren't horrible price-wise. I sincerely hope Nvidia works with Adobe to broaden the current acceleration.

                                                         

                                                        In 2003, our company used the RT.X100.  It was a great idea, but it did evil things to our productivity. I just hope that CUDA doesn't introduce stability issues.

                                                         

                                                        We'll give it a shot.

                                                         

                                                        Just a guess... CS5 out in March-April 2010?

                                                        • 25. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                          I sincerely hope Nvidia works with Adobe to broaden the current acceleration.

                                                           

                                                          I rather hope that abandon it and switch to OpenCL only.

                                                          • 26. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                            RDA972 Level 3

                                                            I'm afraid that's a bit of wishful thinking, Jim, at least for the foreseeable future.

                                                            So switch to nVidia and 'join the rest of the world' otherwise you will be left behind.

                                                            • 27. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              I probably will, Robert.

                                                               

                                                              I have nothing in particular against nVidia (as I do against Macs).  I just tend to prefer ATI because typically you get more for the money with them, and with CS4 at least, they seem to cause fewer issues.

                                                               

                                                              Given that, and the new cards coming out from S3, I would still make the argument that CUDA should be considered a technological dead end.  It's just too limiting.  Software companies will at some point have to switch to OpenCL for their GPGPU tasks or they risk losing potential customers.  (Kind of the same reason Adobe decided to again support Macs.)  I say better sooner than later.  It may be too late to switch for the next release, but it should be done immediately after, I say.

                                                              • 28. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                                midael75

                                                                For whom it may concern...

                                                                 

                                                                It is arguably so a bit of a misconception that high end GPUs by ATI, nVIDIA etc. would directly benefit applications like premiere. It maybe worthwile to consider if the HW in question really has been designed for video editing (there is specific HW for that too) or for something different (like playing FPSs and other cool things at excellent frame rate with mind bogling graphic details). That said - here are some thought provoking analysis about the matter:

                                                                 

                                                                URL: http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=257#body (CUDA as an accelator for video editing)

                                                                URL: http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/archives/archive_2009-m08.php (3D accelerators /w video filters)

                                                                 

                                                                After reading above - my thinking would be to invest my money into generally higher end system. Not on the multiple extremely good GPUs. That is - if someone from Adobe does not present a evidence that with Premiere you actually get certain benefits when utilizing certain GPUs.

                                                                 

                                                                Just my cents...

                                                                • 29. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                                  Hi all,

                                                                   

                                                                  There's a lot here in the responses but I am going to keep it brief for now.

                                                                   

                                                                  1. As Simon from Adobe pointed out in another thread, OpenCL is great and we're excited about it but it's barely done and if you want this sooner than later, CUDA is the way to go. 
                                                                  2. I recently read a review on the ATI card and it does look like a beastie.  We have lots of friends at ATI and value the technology that they bring to market.  Clearly with Adobe's agnostic view of platforms, OS's and the like, we would like to support everybody in the future.
                                                                  3. I have a blog post that will hopefully provide a tad bit more information - we're waiting on legal for some terminology at the moment.  Once I get it up, I will try to post it here.  Subscribe to my blog and Adobe TV show if you're so inclined.
                                                                  4. My reason for mentioning the GTX 285 - this is the least expensive card that we expect to support.  'nuff said.
                                                                  5. Our initial list of cards for CS 'Next' will be somewhat limited in order to provide a consistent overall user experience.  Are there some other cards that would probably work well - definitely, but we choose to keep it tight in order to make sure your expierence is the same as everyone elses.
                                                                  • 30. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                                    dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                                    It seems only fair that Dennis is a bit more open about the intended video card use with CS5. Cuda, CL, GL?

                                                                    Hi Harm,

                                                                     

                                                                    would hope that my other entry would provide the basic information you need?

                                                                     

                                                                    Dennis

                                                                    • 31. Re: CUDA in Premiere Pro CS4
                                                                      dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                                      Nice looking system Charles.  I wish I had time to build my own boxes these days - it's like putting together a model...fun!