31 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2009 7:21 PM by Tim Flippance

    Downscaling

    Tim Flippance Level 1

      I want to downscale HDV 16:9 to PAL DVD at maximum render quality. Do I do this by (in Encore) selecting PAL DV High Quality in the Export

      settings?

        • 1. Re: Downscaling
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

          Have a look at my tutorial:

           

          CS4 HD to SD

           

          -Jeff

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Downscaling
            Tim Flippance Level 1

            Thanks Jeff that's very helpful.

             

            Just a couple of points I'm not sure about:

            in the Preset drop-down list should I choose PAL Widescreen High Quality,

            and what should I set M frames and N frames to for 25i PAL?

             

            thanks Tim

            • 3. Re: Downscaling
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

              I'm an NTSC guy, but I took a look at the PAL Widescreen High Quality preset and it looks like the correct choice.  I also think that the default GOP settings for that preset should work OK.

               

              Encode a short section of your timeline and burn that to an RW disc and then test it on a hardware DVD player.  Then you'll know for sure if you got everything right.

               

              -Jeff

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Downscaling
                Tim Flippance Level 1

                Thanks. What sort of faults would I expect to see if it isn't right? Flickering? Bad definition? Jerky movement?

                • 5. Re: Downscaling
                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                  Yes to any or all of the above. 

                   

                  The only caveat to jerky motion would be if you used 30p or 24p

                  footage.  Fast motion across the frame won't look with either of those,

                  no matter how good the scaling is.

                   

                  -Jeff

                  • 6. Re: Downscaling
                    Tim Flippance Level 1

                    Thanks a lot Jeff

                    • 7. Re: Downscaling
                      Tim Flippance Level 1

                      Jeff

                       

                      I've had another thought.  Most of this movie was filmed in 25p packaged as i, which presumably means 50 fields per second, but with the upper and lower field photographed at the same instant in time, effectively giving 25p. My question is does this mean I have to use a different downscaling process?  I can't see why it should, but you're the expert. You'll probably say do tests, but I can't get a rewritable disc to work, and in any case I need to know that the method I'm using is theoreticaly the best method, and I'm getting the best possible quality.

                       

                      Thanks a lot    Tim

                      • 8. Re: Downscaling
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                        I can't get a rewritable disc to work

                        That's not good, and you should fix it.

                        this movie was filmed in 25p packaged as i

                        My tests on 30p AVCHD footage that was packaged as 60i came out OK using the 30p scaling method that I outlined in the tutorial.  I expect that 25p over 50i will do OK if it's treated as 25p.

                         

                        -Jeff

                        • 9. Re: Downscaling
                          Tim Flippance Level 1

                          Jeff (or anyone)

                           

                          when I've done the downscaling in the Export Settings window, I don't know how to burn what I've done to disc. I can't find any file anywhere.

                          • 10. Re: Downscaling
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                            Did you run the queue in the Adobe Media Encoder?

                             

                            -Jeff

                            • 11. Re: Downscaling
                              Tim Flippance Level 1

                              No I didn't. When it had finished converting the Export Settings window just stayed there and didn't ask me to Save or anything, so I didn't know what to do.

                               

                               

                              Here's another (less important) question: is it best to always set Maximum Bit Rate to the highest possible setting assuming that the project will fit onto the disc?

                               

                               

                              Tim

                              • 12. Re: Downscaling
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                Only use Maximum Render Quality for your Master. It will take around 4 times as long to render, so you only want to use that for the master.

                                • 13. Re: Downscaling
                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                  Time for "back to basics".

                                   

                                  What version of Premiere Pro are you using?

                                   

                                  Are you encoding from Pr or En?  My tutorial centers on Pr, so I assumed that's where you set up and executed the transcoding of your video.

                                   

                                  If you transcode outside of En, then you must do your own bit budgeting.

                                   

                                  -Jeff

                                  • 14. Re: Downscaling
                                    Tim Flippance Level 1

                                    Yes I'm using Maximum Render Quality, but I'm also interested in whether it's best to use the highest possible Maximum Bit Rate (and how do you calculate the required bit rate?)

                                    • 15. Re: Downscaling
                                      Tim Flippance Level 1

                                      Jeff

                                       

                                      I was using 4.1.0 but I decided to re instal 4.0 because since updating to 4.1.0 several problems appeared: 1/ when trying to burn in Encore it always aborts just before the burn starts, 2/ when I open a project it says "Rendering Required Files" and does so before it will run, 3/ previously rendered clips are now unrendered and have to be re rendered.

                                       

                                      So I reinstalled 4.0 and the above problems disappeared.

                                       

                                      So I'm using 4.0

                                       

                                      I did it all as you said in your tutorial.

                                       

                                      I was in Pr, clicked File > Export > Media to bring up the Export Settings window, etc.

                                      • 17. Re: Downscaling
                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                        Tim Flippance wrote:

                                         

                                        when I've done the downscaling in the Export Settings window, I don't know how to burn what I've done to disc. I can't find any file anywhere.

                                        Go into Pr, go to File | Export | Media and when the AME UI opens up, look at where the AME wants to save the file.  That's likely where you'll find your exported file.

                                         

                                        -Jeff

                                        • 18. Re: Downscaling
                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                          1/ when trying to burn in Encore it always aborts just before the burn starts, 2/ when I open a project it says "Rendering Required Files" and does so before it will run, 3/ previously rendered clips are now unrendered and have to be re rendered.

                                          You should uninstall Pr, En and the whole Production Premium suite (if you have it).  Then run the CS4 Clean Script at least twice, rebooting between each run.  Then install 4.0 and the 4.1 update and try again.

                                           

                                          -Jeff

                                          • 19. Re: Downscaling
                                            Tim Flippance Level 1

                                            Thanks Harm

                                            • 21. Re: Downscaling
                                              Tim Flippance Level 1

                                              It seems to be in 4.0 but I don't know what it's called so I'll have to do it again. But now when I click on the dropdown menu to select Use Maximum Render Quality it is not there, it only lists Use Preview Files, Include Source XMP Meta Data, File Info...

                                              sorry this is all very basic stuff but I've never done this before

                                              • 22. Re: Downscaling
                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                It's possible that MRQ was added in the 4.1 update.

                                                 

                                                -Jeff

                                                • 23. Re: Downscaling
                                                  Tim Flippance Level 1

                                                  I havn't done the 4.1 update yet. In that little dropdown window it used to have Use Maximum Render Quality listed, now its not there!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Or are you saying Use Maximum Render Quality is not available in 4.0?

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Yes that's obviously what you're saying

                                                  • 24. Re: Downscaling
                                                    Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                                    Im going to vomit if people are going to start begging for points.

                                                    • 25. Re: Downscaling
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/vomit-5.gif

                                                       

                                                      Curt.....Harm

                                                      • 26. Re: Downscaling
                                                        Tim Flippance Level 1

                                                        I did what you suggested and it has cured the rendering faults and MRQ has reappeared in Export Settings.

                                                         

                                                        I downscaled my project to DVD using MRQ and it worked OK. The only problem is it puts the picture and the sound in two separate files and when I burn the DVD (using ImgBurn) it has no sound!

                                                         

                                                        And here's a strange thing: this video is only 3.5 minutes long but it has filled up about 1/3 of the DVD! (about 1/2 inch of width on the disc).

                                                         

                                                        The picture quality is good but has a slight "wobbly" effect on horiz edges on pan up shots. I did it in 25i so I might try 25p and see if it is better.

                                                         

                                                        Two more questions:  would MRQ produce better quality on Blu-ray discs too?

                                                         

                                                        For this video I used several clips from the same source footage as a previous video (with different in/out points) and this has messed up the previous video, its clips now start and stop at the wrong point. Is this normal?

                                                        • 27. Re: Downscaling
                                                          RDA972 Level 3

                                                          Jim, this will probably get "The Post of the Year Award".

                                                          It had me in stiches.

                                                          • 28. Re: Downscaling
                                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                            I did what you suggested and it has cured the rendering faults and MRQ has reappeared in Export Settings.

                                                            Hooray!

                                                            I downscaled my project to DVD using MRQ and it worked OK. The only problem is it puts the picture and the sound in two separate files and when I burn the DVD (using ImgBurn) it has no sound!

                                                            In the export settings dialog, go to the multiplexer tab.  Set multiplexing to DVD.

                                                            And here's a strange thing: this video is only 3.5 minutes long but it has filled up about 1/3 of the DVD! (about 1/2 inch of width on the disc).

                                                            If you burned to DVD-R or DVD-RW, then at least 1 GB of info must be written to disc.  If the disc content isn't that big, then the disc is padded by writing fake data until the file size is 1 GB.

                                                            would MRQ produce better quality on Blu-ray discs too?

                                                            Not unless scaling and/or deinterlacing were involved.

                                                            For this video I used several clips from the same source footage as a previous video (with different in/out points) and this has messed up the previous video, its clips now start and stop at the wrong point. Is this normal?

                                                            In Pr or En?  Dynamic Link or overwriting existing files when you export?

                                                             

                                                            -Jeff

                                                            • 29. Re: Downscaling
                                                              Tim Flippance Level 1

                                                              Jeff   thanks for all that very useful info.

                                                               

                                                              In Pro.  I made this new video in the same timeline as the previous project, using some clips from the same source footage, but with different in/out points, and now it has upset the old project. When I run the old project in Pro, those clips are all messed up.

                                                              • 30. Re: Downscaling
                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                Premiere is a non-destructive editor.  Changing in/out points in a sequence has no effect on the actual source media that is stored on your hard drive.  All that changes is the reference to frames in the source clip.  All the original frames are there, it's just that Pr is now looking only at the frames defined by the new in/out points.

                                                                 

                                                                The only way to mess up clips that exist on your hard drive is to export new clips with the same file names as the old clips, thereby overwriting the old clips.  Is that what you did?

                                                                 

                                                                -Jeff

                                                                • 31. Re: Downscaling
                                                                  Tim Flippance Level 1

                                                                  No but I think this may have happened after I uninstalled Pro then reinstalled then updated, because Pro had a lot of trouble finding the source footage after the update (I've got two HDs with different stuff on each, and some of the stuff is duplicated on both HDs)

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  A different subject:  is the "wobbly"or "blinking" effect on horizontal lines during upward pans caused by the wrong value for N frames? I used 12 which was the default value