19 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2009 9:53 AM by Jim_Simon

    Problems with long text justification in titler

    SiliconPixel Level 1

      I posted about a year ago on this issue and after recently completing a long title roll, am seeing exactly the same issues. I wonder if anyone knows if this is a known issue or can reproduce it themselves? Details are:

       

      I set up a new title in a 1024x768 project using desktop mode. Set the title to a roll and used the text area tool to create a new title box. I then import a large amount of text, say 7-8 pages of a doc at around 12 point. I cut and paste the text from a Windows text file.

       

      Select the text and apply a style to it - so far so good.

       

      The title is OK at this point and words wrap OK.

       

      Drag the bottom of the text box to fit all the text - bit of a pain with long titles though as you have to extend it bit by bit (dragging the window down to a thin sliver helps a bit and reduces the number of resizes needed).

       

      Then I start moving through the text and setting names in one style and the following paragraph in another style. At some point in this editing process the text justification and word-wrap breaks. Suddenly I find that previously ok word wraps now break the line mid-word and I have to now go through checking for badly wrapped words and orphans etc.

       

      Worse than this, on very long titles (the last one I did rolled over 25 minutes), ANY change high up in the title can cause the justification/word wrapping to randomly break further down in the title. This means that for every set of changes, you have to manually scroll through the title and check everything with a fine tooth comb - orphans and text wrapping inconsistencies are easy to miss. This significantly increases the time it takes to perform this type of project.

       

      So, has anyone else seen this problem?

       

      I'm pretty sure I did report it as a bug over a year ago but in 4.1 it's still there.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          For the Word Wrap, just drag one side of the Text Box inward (I go to about the middle of the Frame) and then back to your Tilte Safe Guide. This causes Word Wrap to "snap" back into play. When a lot of text has been changed, I encounter this little "glitch" sometimes, and doing a forced compression of the Text Box always clears it up.

           

          For long text Titles, I almost always do the construction in Photoshop, and then Import as a .PSD. I also Keyframe Effect>Motion>Position to create my Roll, rather than rely on the Preset, as I have much more control over all aspects of that Roll, with only a touch more work. I also can set the perfect Duration and not have to worry about altering the speed of the Roll, etc. However, I am a control freak, so I rely less on Presets.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

           

          PS - the sticking of Word Wrap, with major editing goes back to at least PrPro 2.0.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Drag the bottom of the text box to fit all the text

             

            That is not normal.  The text box will automatically adjust to fit any and all text.  If you have to expand it manually, something is definitely wrong with your installation.

            • 3. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Jim,

               

              This is for my education. Is this a new feature in CS4? In earlier versions, if my text exceeds the height of my Text Box, I get a little symbol for "More" and also need to expand the height of the Text Box. Or, am I just misunderstanding something here - it's still fairly early in the desert?

               

              Thanks,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                SiliconPixel Level 1

                Thanks Guys.

                 

                Once it's broken, it definately doesn't start working again i.e. by dragging the handles.

                 

                I have seen this over several installs of PPro CS3/CS4 - I've also seen it cause exactly this issue on both XP Pro (last year) and Vista 64 (current), so It's unlikely to be an install issue I think.

                 

                It is VERY long titles though that I see it on - many hundreds of lines long.

                 

                Hunt - yes I did consider the Photoshop route but didn't explore further as I was thinking the length of the titles I need would exceed the max (or workable) resolution of the Photoshop file needed? Didn't want to play around with multiple files either really.

                 

                What kind of length of title files are possible with Photoshop?

                • 5. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                  SiliconPixel Level 1

                  I'm not aware of an autofit function - would be great as this is one of the frustrations of the titler for me!

                  • 6. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    What kind of length of title files are possible with Photoshop?

                    The limit (unless it's been upped) for a still image in PrPro is 4000 pixels in the largest dimension. That means that one can have a Title that is say 720 x 4000 pxls.. I have not tried any images beyond that range, but have used up to 4000 pixels high with no issues. As a test sometime back, I did 300 lines of text @ ~ 24pt. and it worked fine. I keep the file format in .PSD for the highest quality, and do most Styles, etc. in PS.

                     

                    Sorry that the adjusting/readjusting of the Text Box did not get things working for you. In my cases, I've not had THAT much text, but after a few Leading and font changes, see Word Wrap "hang." In those cases, dragging the left side of the text Bounding Box has always worked. Now, I just grab the left side out of habit, and have not tried with the right side that I recall.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      One additional thought, that might help the OP here, is that the Text Box can be expanded down, even through the Styles Panel (below the editing Panel by default), so one can drag it down to the bottom of the full Titler Pane, rather than just to the bottom of the editing Panel. One might still have to do this several times, but you get more room for expansion, than what it appears. Still, my Text Box does not automatically adjust for more text, but I am on PrPro 2.0, so there might be some changes in CS4's Titler.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        In your case, you could do 1024 x 4000 pixels. Now, I do not know what sort of limitation might exist with Titles done in PrPro's Titler. Going back, I ran into a limit with the Titler in PrE during a test of that program. It seems that it stopped at 99 lines. Jim Simon pointed out that the 99 line limit did not apply to PrPro, and I confirmed that he was correct. I do not know if/where a limit might apply. I'm sure that there is one somewhere, but at 300 lines of text, I stopped experimenting. I would guess that the 4000 pixel limit applies, but have not confirmed this.

                         

                        Also, for very long credits, I normally break these into multiple Titles in PS, i.e. Actors, Crew, Writers, etc. and just Keyframe each so that they follow along. It can get tricky to time things at the line-level, but by breaking into logical parts, I can get the timing tight enough that there is no noticable break in the flow of the Keyframed Rolls.

                         

                        Hope that some of this helps,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Does the titler work ok when short text is used?

                          If so chop up the text in small portions.

                          With the on an off screen function it is easy to 'glue' the pieces back together

                          • 10. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            if my text exceeds the height of my Text Box, I get a little symbol for "More"

                             

                            That's normal either.  Premiere's titler has always adjusted the box automatically to fit the text.  And vice versa.  If you adjust the box, the size of the text adjusts itself to accommodate.

                            • 11. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              I'm not aware of an autofit function

                               

                              It has always been there.  If it doesn't happen for you, something is wrong.  In fact, nothing I did would produce text outside of the text box.  Whenever I adjusted one (box or text) the other would automatically adjust to match.  If I adjust the text, the box autofits.  If I adjust the box, the text autofits.

                              • 12. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                Premiere's titler has always adjusted the box automatically to fit the text.

                                 

                                Interesting. In PrPro 1.0 and 2.0, plus PrE 4, it never has. If I have created a Text Box, when full, I get the + sign to the lower-right of the Text Box.

                                 

                                Now, If I do NOT create a Text Box, I can type and type, but that is different than having a Text Box. Is this what you are thinking about? It's almost symantics - similar, but not the same.

                                 

                                It's the same with PageMaker, InDesign, PS and AI. With a Text Box, if you exceed the size, you get the + sign in the lower-right to inform you that you have more text, than will fit.

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                  If I adjust the text, the box autofits.  If I adjust the box, the text autofits.

                                   

                                  That is how it has always worked for me too. That was where I was going with the "grab and drag the left side of the Bounding Box" (or similar syntax), as it always started the Word Wrap feature, if my changes had altered things.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I can't experiment at the moment, but I'll add this:

                                     

                                    The help file talks about point text and paragraph text, and in terms of the text tool and the area type tool.  (I think it is confusing to sort out which one is being referred to at points in the help file.)  You are creating an area type tool text box, which behaves differently from a type tool/point text text box.  Formatting "paragraphs" inside an area type tool text box may not be the most elegant method for using multiple styles inside such a box.

                                     

                                    My vote: I use illustrator, using the character and paragraph styles, and pull that into after effects to apply motion.  It is easy to manipulate the styles and, if necessary, to go back and revise a single style throughout the image.  Long rolls require multiple documents, but I am paying careful attention to the roll rate based on the pixel size of AI documents.  I found that method originally looking for an easy way to do "left side right align; right side left align" credits.

                                     

                                    I am CS3, and have never tried the PS method.  Originally, I believed that AI would scale better; I suspect in the CS4 life of these products, that there may be no difference as long as the right settings are used.

                                    • 15. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                      Interesting. In PrPro 1.0 and 2.0, plus PrE 4, it never has.

                                       

                                      I can't speak for Elements, and I don't recall 1.0  But it has always done so for me in 2.0, which I only recently stopped using.  Again I say if it's not for you, something seems wrong.

                                       

                                      If I do NOT create a Text Box, I can type and type, but that is different than having a Text Box.

                                       

                                      Now that makes no sense.  Whenever you type, a text box is automatically created.  And I see no other way to create one other than to start typing.

                                      • 16. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                        You are creating an area type tool text box, which behaves differently from a type tool/point text text box.

                                         

                                        Ah, now it makes a little more sense.

                                         

                                        Except for why anyone would use Area Type as the norm.  It is not the default, has to be manually chosen, and presents troublesome behavior as observed.  Just use the normal "T" type tool, man.

                                        • 17. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                          My vote: I use illustrator, using the character and paragraph styles, and pull that into after effects to apply motion.

                                           

                                          Stanley,

                                           

                                          That is similar to my workflow, with just a single exception. I use AI for the basics (and the text comes from Word, or WordPerfect, to allow for Spellchecking), and then I Rasterize in PS, plus add any Styles, etc., that I need. PrPro does not do the best job with AI files directly, but loves PS's .PSD's and if they're Layered, I can animate each Layer separately in PrPro. Similar workflow, just different programs.

                                           

                                          Actually, I'll try AE next time, as I do not use it as much as I should and any Project will likely improve my AE capabilities - thanks for that "nudge!"

                                           

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Ah, now it makes a little more sense.

                                             

                                            Jim,

                                             

                                            Only reason that I went that direction was that it seemed to be the stated workflow for the OP.

                                             

                                            I do agree that a change in workflow might yield better results for the OP, and thank you for making that point, as it's a good one.

                                             

                                            Because I have a totally different workflow (outlined in reply to Stanley), I was just trying to help with what was being done and what was needed.

                                             

                                            Appreciated,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Problems with long text justification in titler
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                              used the text area tool to create a new title box

                                               

                                              OK, the solution is to just don't do that.  Use the default type tool.