21 Replies Latest reply on Nov 12, 2009 9:57 PM by ssprengel

    Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG

    Jim_N Level 1

      I'm wondering if anyone can explain why CR2 files from a Canon 1D Mark II exhibit a strong blue cast when converted to DNG using the standalone Adobe DNG converter version 5.5.0.97 or Lightroom 2.5. (see examples below).

       

      Here's the test I conducted:  I first shot a JPEG image of an X-Rite grey card using Auto White Balance then used it to set a custom white balance in my 1D Mark II.  I then repeated the same test using a RAW file and in both instances the camera functions as expected.  However, when I converted the CR2 files to DNG they took on a strong blueish cast.

       

      For comparison purposes I then did the same test using a Canon 5D and those CR2 files do not show the blueish cast when converted to DNG.

       

      Here's a shot of the thumbnails as they appear in BreezeBrowser Pro (thumbnail color management enabled).  They look the same in Adobe Bridge too.  The first six thumbnails are from the Canon 1D Mark II and the second six are from the Canon 5D.

       

      Thanks for any help.

        • 1. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
          Panoholic Level 2
          I then repeated the same test using a RAW file and in both instances the camera functions as expected

           

          Are you basing this "functions as expected" alone on the appearance of the thumbnails?

           

          Can you upload a sample CR2?

           

          Gabor

          • 2. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Yes, an example CR2, with something neutral to eyedropper, uploaded via rapidshare.com or yousendit.com would be helpful.

             

            And what camera-profile do you have set in the Develop / Camera Calibration panel at the bottom, and are any of the sliders beneath not set to zero?

            • 3. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
              Jim_N Level 1

              No; I think by testing in-camera custom white balance using both JPEG and RAW I've eliminated the camera as the source of the problem.

               

               

              Here's a link to a CR2 file I shot this morning:  http://rapidshare.com/files/306099997/JAN_20091112_366.cr2

              • 4. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                Jim_N Level 1

                Here a shot of an X-Rite ColorChecker Passport; there are several neutral patches you can use to set White Balance in a RAW processor:   http://rapidshare.com/files/306099997/JAN_20091112_366.cr2

                 

                 

                Both Lightroom and ACR is set to import all my CR2 files with Neutral color profile.  Of course the next step would have been to use the DNG file to create a custom profile.  Please note that in the screenshot posted earlier I use BreezeBrowser Pro (which is based on Canon's Raw Image Task) and not Adobe software, but when I looked at the DNG files in Bridge they still had the strong Cyan cast.

                • 5. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                  Panoholic Level 2

                  I'm sorry, but I am not interested to spend my day with CRAPidshare.

                  • 6. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    There is no bluish cast in LR from a DNG converted using LR3b.  I'd say this is a question for the BB folks, if you're only seeing the error in BB and not Adobe products.

                    • 7. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                      Jim_N Level 1

                      Thanks very much for your help.  Its really odd.... I just imported the same CR2 files into Lightroom 3 beta as DNG files and the cast appears. (see screenshot).  So far, I've tested several files from the ID Mark II in Lightroom 2, Adobe Bridge (converted via the standalone DNG converter), and now Lightroom 3 beta and they all show the same problem.

                       

                      What's really puzzling is that the CR2 files from my 5D that are converted into DNG do not have this issue.  My intent was to use the DNG files with the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport plug-in in Lightroom to create custom color profiles.  This cast means I can't create the custom profiles; I can negate it by simply clicking with the Eyedropper but the Passport instructions specifically state that no adjustments should be made to the file before creating a profile.

                       

                      BTW, in my initial screenshot I did not convert in BB Pro, I just used that app to display the thumbnails for a screencap.

                      • 8. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Post the blue x-rite DNG using YouSendIt, then.  If it's blue in LR3 then it's not necessarily BB, only, unless BB updated the preview or WB.  What WB are you seeing in the DNG in LR3?

                        • 9. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I tried converting your CR2 with both LR3B and DNGC 5.5 and neither has a blue cast. 

                           

                          Check the WB of the DNG, itself.  The WB you show is consistent with the WB getting set to Tungsten, somehow.

                          • 10. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                            Panoholic Level 2

                            I don't know how the Lightroom version of ACR is working, but I saw on the dialog capture, that the WB is "Custom". Why is this not "As shot"? You selected a custom WB in the camera, that is recorded, and that should be used.

                             

                            Gabor

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                              Jim_N Level 1

                              That's really odd...

                               

                               

                              Here's the DNG file converted with the DNG Converter v5.5: http://www.mediafire.com/?0mnvy5tqvbm

                               

                              Yousendit seems to have a 2GB limit.

                               

                              Thanks again for all your help.

                              • 12. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                The DNG is less than 7MB which is much less than 2GB.

                                • 13. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                  Jim_N Level 1

                                  I couldn't answer your question; all I did was import the files into Lightroom 3 as DNGs....I did not select any presets etc.  yet as you point out the White Balance is indicated as Custom; and "Saved Preset" is Custom.  That gave me a hint to explore and when I checked my 5D files they show up correctly as "As Shot."  This is all so puzzling to me.

                                  • 14. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                    Jim_N Level 1

                                    LOL...sorry....long day; so I misread the file size limit.

                                     

                                    Here's the YouSendit link:  http://www.yousendit.com/download/TzY2cmxlZDUzMW5IRGc9PQ

                                    • 15. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      The only thing wrong with your DNG is that the embedded preview was created with the WB set to something like Tungsten while the DNG metadata parameters say As Shot for the WB.  How it got that way you're going to have to figure that out.  I say this because both LR and Br show a brief blue flash when the image is initially imported, then it corrects to the As Shot WB.  This means the preview is bad but the parameters are ok.

                                       

                                      I'm going to guess you had the DNG open in LR and clicked or synced it to something like Tungsten from some other image, and then created the DNG with the preview, then corrected the WB in LR and then updated the DNG metadata without updating the preview--perhaps by having the Auto XMP writing turned on.

                                       

                                       

                                      I'd suggest removing the CR2 (and any associated DNGs) from the library, deleting any XMP, and starting over by importing the CR2 with As Shot parameters and convert directoy to DNG from W/in LR and see if you can make it happen, again.  If you figure it out, then tell us.  If you can't figure it out, then don't worry.  The CR2 and the DNG are ok and you can use them for creating your color profile with the passport software which ignores any edits you make to the DNG anyway.  Trying it with my Passport software shows a non-blue DNG with the green rectangles over the various squares, so the DNG, itself, is fine, just the preview is wrong.

                                      • 16. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                        b_gossweiler Level 5

                                        I notice the same thing:

                                        • DNG Thumbnail has blue cast
                                        • DNG itself does not have blue cast
                                        • CR2 in LR2.5 does not have blue cast
                                        • Convert the .CR2 with DNG Converter (which is, what the OP states), I get a proper (non blue) thumbnail embedded in it.

                                         

                                        Beat Gossweiler

                                        Switzerland

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                          Jim_N Level 1

                                          Thanks everyone for all your help.  I'm going to retry everything from scratch; making sure I have no apps running although I'm sure that's what I did in the first place.  This has turned out to be a "head scratcher" but I'm not going to worry about it too muchespecially since I can still create accurate DNG profiles.

                                          • 18. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                            Panoholic Level 2

                                            The preview JPEG in your DNG is bluish. If I convert that (not the CR2 but your DNG), the output's preview is normal. I am using the same version.

                                             

                                            Was there perhaps a DNG profile in the same folder with the CR2, which has been taken into account by the DNG converter?

                                             

                                            Gabor

                                            • 19. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              When you say "DNG Profile" are you talking about a .dcpr file, a camera profile, or are you talking about an XMP conversion recipe for the CR2?

                                               

                                              I wondered if there had been a custom camera profile applied that made everything bluish, but the DNG says Adobe Standard, and if I remember what happened when the Beta profiles were removed, the profile just has a blank or says Embedded if the current machine (mine) doesn't have the profile used to create the DNG (his), rather than defaulting to something else like Adobe Standard.

                                              • 20. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                                Panoholic Level 2

                                                I meant a .dcpr.

                                                 

                                                My consideration is, that all the tags in the DNGs (Jim's and the one I generated from the CR2) are identical, the color specification, the WB, the embedded XMP too, but the JPEG previews are different, and I was thinking of a possible reason the preview is different.

                                                 

                                                It is pure speculation on my side, the expression of lack of knowledge.

                                                 

                                                Gabor

                                                • 21. Re: Blue Cast on CR2 conversion to DNG
                                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  It's my experience that assigning the wrong camera profile to an image does not affect the neutrals very much if the image is properly white-balanced in camera and the WB is set to As Shot, but all bets are off if the WB in ACR/LR is set to something else besides As Shot.  Using the WB-eyedropper does not work to make things neutral-looking if the wrong profile is assigned.

                                                   

                                                  Since the screen-shot showed a Custom WB then it is possible that this had occurred.

                                                   

                                                  However, fiddling with LR's WB slider and profiles on this shot, the histogram is almost identical to a Custom WB of 2800K/+10 and a Camera Neutral profile applied, so my theory is that the blue-cast came from setting a custom WB on another shot and accidentally syncing these shots with it, then creating the DNG which produced the internal thumbnail, then the WB of the shots was set back to As Shot and the profile set to Adobe Standard, and the metadata was updated into the with these values.  If these adjustments were performed in LR, then the history of the CR2 would have recorded those steps, prior to removing the CR2 from the catalog and starting over, if that's what occurred most recently.