6 Replies Latest reply on Nov 20, 2009 4:20 PM by xavierpayne

    AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?

    genoism Level 1

      I saw a thread back from may describing a bug with avc hd rendering frames out of order....was this issue ever fix in some patch that the adobe udpater never found? I'm all up to date and i can't believe that a bug like this would persist for so long. Its crippling our workflow right now and the reverse dynamic link from premiere to AE creates an impossible workflow to get large projects done in reasonable time even with decent planning.

       

      EDIT: I should note that this happens in premiere as well.

        • 1. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
          Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

          There hasn't been an update to the AVHCD decoding component.

          Note that this is actually a software component provided by a third party developer. Adobe handed all relevant information to the developer. I am not aware of a timeframe for them to provide a fix. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

          • 2. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
            xavierpayne

            Glad I found this thread. I tried everything including blowing away my preferences file and recreating

            a few of my projects from scratch. All my projects under 30 seconds seem to be ok. Unfortunately most of my projects are longer than that.

             

            Is it correct then that the only reliable way for me to work with my AVC files in AE or Pre is to use AME to re-encode them to something else like raw avi or lagarith?

            • 3. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
              Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee
              Is it correct then that the only reliable way for me to work with my AVC files in AE or Pre is to use AME to re-encode them to something else like raw avi or lagarith?

              Let me give you two different answers.

              On one hand, native support for the AVCHD format is a CS4 feature. It should work, period. And we are very concerned that for some camera models is not working properly. And I am talking specifically about the decoding issue that produces out of order frames. Unfortunately, AVHCD support comes from a licensed, third party technology. And while we've been aware of this problem for some time, providing "scientific" and conclusive evidence regarding the causes of the problem is something that takes more time than one could imagine. So, at this time I am not allowed to give a time frame. Rest assured, the idea is that this is addressed so that functionality in this regard matches the quality standards you expect.

               

              That's answer one.

              The other part is, even when we get rid of the "shuffled frames" problem with some AVHCD camera models, the truth is also that AVCHD is incredibly expensive in terms of processing load. When you have several such footage items in a Comp, it's very easy to drown a CPU and it may not work very well with multiprocessing strategies. So, even if it should work (for the models that trigger the issue mentioned above), it may not be a good idea at all. Further evidence of this can be seen in threads from users who are not experincing this specific problem, and yet find native AVHCD to be very difficult in terms of workflow. So, while there is room for opinion, I would say that yes, converting AVCHD to a lossless production codec can be a good idea in the long run. I personally prefer codecs which are established, cross-platform standards, rather than downloadable add-ons. So, I tend to recommend Quicktime PNG, QT Animation, QT JPEG2000, etc. But of course, Lagarith should be fine. "No Compression" AVIs (what you call "raw", though hardly related to what most people call RAW nowadays) can be a very inefficient way of throwing bits without really gaining anything IMHO. For HD material, you'd need a lot of hard disk horsepower.

              • 4. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
                xavierpayne Level 1

                Thanks for the clarification, codec suggestions, and straight speak.

                 

                If you folks need any test footage from a Canon HF S10 that suffers from the out of order playback problem. let me know. I have quite a few clips here that are completely unusable in AE. The 4.2 update for Premiere Pro has been good to me so far. So I've started using PPro to shift to lagarith then I do all my AE edits in that.

                 

                I don't mind so much if getting this worked out means I need more CPU Speed, Cores, and Ram that's solvable with a trip to new egg.

                • 5. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
                  Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                  I am not aware of all the details regarding Premiere Pro development, so it could be true that the 4.2 update includes a fix for this problem. But it could be a better idea asking in the PPro forum.

                  I don't think we need more samples. With some issues, the thing is not so much seeing it happen as it is isolating the causes.

                  • 6. Re: AVC-HD in AECS4/premiere bug ever fixed?
                    xavierpayne Level 1

                    After working for the past few days in PrePro. I have realized that it also has the same out of order frames problem as AE it just happens much less frequently. That said it still happens frequently enough to ruin every project I have tried (My current project is less than 40 seconds).

                     

                    It looks like any footage I shoot with my HS F10  is going to be a non starter with CS4.

                     

                    The only thing left is for me to try re-encoding it in Media Encoder without piping it through Premiere.

                     

                    I'll post how well that works out.