24 Replies Latest reply on Nov 20, 2009 3:56 AM by dradeke

    Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9

    justingiesbrecht

      Okay so here is the deal.

       

      I am a dedicated Adobe Fan... I like how everything integrates and is wonderful to work with... most of the time.

       

      First off, I created an entire video from a standard DV camera, captured the video, created the video and everything went fine.

       

      Next I am working on video footage from an HD Camera, so I transfered all the files from the camera to the hard drive.

      They were in an MTS file format, so I used AVS Video Converter 6.3 to convert the footage to either AVI or MPEG to keep decent quality.

       

      Then I bring the converted footage and import it into Adobe Premiere Pro CS4. I throw a clip into the preview scrubber to start my video editing. And in short I cannot scrub through any footage as either it keeps freezing, un-playable, and even when it does play (5% of the time, it's super choppy). I figured it might be an issue with my computer so I tested this on another computer with a different operating system, but there was no difference.

       

      Next to the testing range I wanted to see if Vegas 9 would be any better. So I installed it, I put the converted footage into Vegas and instantly worked with no problems scrubbing, playing of any sort.

       

      I have no idea why the issue is happening. Does anyone else have this issue? Is there a glitch, or some sort? Or is it just something i'm missing?

       

       

      Would appreciate any form of direction.

       

       

      PS. I am having a hard time understanding all the Video TYPES and what is the best format is for me to use on specific projects. Is there a resource guide somewhere that might help clarify this to me being farely new to most video editing positions.

       

      Thank you all.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
          Andrey V Level 2

          More likely you used codec during conversion that is not working with premiere pro CS3

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            What HD camera and what project/sequence settigns did you use? What OS and version of PR?

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Did you try to use the MTS files directly?  Are you certain conversion is necessary?

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                sync2rhythm Level 1

                I own/operate FCP, Avid Media Composer, PremierePro, VegasPro - all latest versions.

                I work hand in hand with a Production Company that swears by FCP.

                 

                Even though I edit everyday on Premiere Pro CS4 (Master Suite) since that's what we use here at my newest job; Sony Vegas stays in my arsenal!

                Almost everytime I've had an issue with any type of Video/CoDec, I've been able to open, edit, & export the video via Vegas to a usable format for the other NLE's. Vegas is the only NLE I know of that truly mixes and matches video of different sizes, CoDecs, etc on the same timeline. It also Batch Renders 'Regions' of your timeline so you can easily 'Conform' all your media to the same size/format for use in your desired NLE. The only requirement is that you have the CoDec on your system. GSpot is good for telling you what CoDec your media is.

                (Even when I'm on a MAC... I still have my laptop w/ Vegas.)

                 

                I'm not advertising or saying 'Go buy Vegas.'

                Just saying, I wish other NLE's were as user friendly.

                 

                In your situation... I would say, keep Vegas close by just so you can 'Conform' your media to match the rest of your footage same as I do because I too have experienced this 'Choppy' playback in most other NLE's until I 'Conform'.

                 

                There's a plethera of tools out there and knowing their benefits will save you loads of time and frustration.

                No need to replace Premiere w/ Vegas but you've just witnessed one of the strengths of another NLE as a compliment to your workflow; so it's NOT a Premiere -vs- Vegas question... it's more of a Premiere w/ Vegas statement.

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                  justingiesbrecht Level 1
                  What HD camera and what project/sequence settigns did you use? What OS and version of PR?

                   

                  Asus Laptop

                  Windows 7

                  4Gb of Ram

                  Adobe Premiere Pro CS4

                  ( I know it's not beefy, but it does the trik for my minor video editing right now   )

                   

                  Project Settings

                  Not much here other than, Capture Format "DV"

                   

                  Sequence Settings

                  Video > Display Format 24fps

                  Video Previews > File format MS Avi

                  Video Previews > Codec DV NTSC

                   

                  Playback Settings > External Device > None

                  Playback Settings >Aspect Ratio Conversion > Hardware (If supported)

                   

                   

                  The Video was converted from MPEG to AVI

                  1080p: H.264/AVC, 4200 kbps; Audio MP3, 256 kbps

                   

                   

                  I can't think of any other settings to send your way.

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                    justingiesbrecht Level 1

                    JSS1138 wrote:

                     

                    Did you try to use the MTS files directly?  Are you certain conversion is necessary?

                     

                    I couldn't get Premiere to accept MTS files, unless there is a plugin or something to enable this feature?

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      What video camera?

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                        justingiesbrecht Level 1

                        Harm Millaard wrote:

                         

                        What video camera?

                        Sorry, I believe it was the

                        Sony's HDRCX100B HD Memory Stick Handycam® Camcorder featuring 1920 x1080 Full HD Recording

                         

                        I had borrowed it, so I tried to find the camera on Sony's website, and believe it was this one. (the link to the camera follows).

                         

                        http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&cata logId=10001&productId=1006072&navigationPath=32080n100496

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                          tclark513 Level 3

                          First off you are using a DV NTSC preset for HD material.  You need to match your source material

                          with your preset.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                            I couldn't get Premiere to accept MTS files

                             

                            This is a big problem since CS4 (except for the trial version) is designed to edit AVCHD footage natively.  You should troubleshoot this problem first.

                             

                            -Jeff

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                              justingiesbrecht Level 1

                              Jeff Bellune wrote:

                               

                              I couldn't get Premiere to accept MTS files

                               

                              This is a big problem since CS4 (except for the trial version) is designed to edit AVCHD footage natively.  You should troubleshoot this problem first.

                               

                              -Jeff

                               

                              Well I thought that was strange, since it's ment to be the ultimate system. I will look further into it accepting the MTS files.

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                I couldn't get Premiere to accept MTS files

                                 

                                It's an AVCHD camera.  The media should work in Premiere if handled properly.  You need to transfer the top level folder and everything in it from the device to your Laptop hard drive, and then use Premiere's Media Browser to bring in the media.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                  justingiesbrecht Level 1

                                  JSS1138 wrote:

                                   

                                  I couldn't get Premiere to accept MTS files

                                   

                                  It's an AVCHD camera.  The media should work in Premiere if handled properly.  You need to transfer the top level folder and everything in it from the device to your Laptop hard drive, and then use Premiere's Media Browser to bring in the media.

                                  Ohhh I see.

                                   

                                  Well this was a project from awhile back just getting to it now, so I don't have those files on the camera anymore, so I will have to convert and import. Which I am testing a new format of AVI conversion and will see how that works.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                    kishoreda-RrOFau Level 1

                                    Believe it or not i have used PAL and NTSC media  on same timeline in sony vegas , i did my editing i rendered the file , looked perfect as if they both were same format....i have used vegas for many years, never had any single issues with importing different types of files.

                                    but when i switched from sony vegas to PPro and AE and then i noticed the differences in quality ....

                                    i don't know if this can be help, put all your footage on vegas timeline , render them without compression as one AVI or any other format then import it back to PPro.

                                     

                                    what you say Jim and Hunt !!

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                      justingiesbrecht Level 1

                                      Well i've done some significant testing I believe.

                                       

                                      I have converted my file into tons of formats, different variations. I tried every opetion preset in APPro CS4. And I got the same results.

                                      Not sure what i'm going to do, perhaps I will do what others are saying and bring into Vegas and output... but seems like an unneccessary step.

                                       

                                      I did try using 2 converters for the sake of testing some more. Adobe Media Encoder AND AVS... I tried formats:

                                       

                                      MPEG

                                      MP4

                                      MOV

                                      AVI

                                       

                                      All with the same effect. Any other ideas? Cheers.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                        tclark513 Level 3

                                        Try Cineform. I think its a hundred bucks but I've heard good things.  They have a

                                        free demo.  It will convert into an AVI for easier editing.

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                          kishoreda-RrOFau Level 1

                                          Justin

                                          the key is NOT to use any compression at all, so basically all your original footage shall have the same quality as long as you don't use any compression or filters...

                                          line up all your footage on vegas timeline , render as AVI without compression , vegas gives that option not to use compression at all...

                                          normally takes very less time with uncompressed data to render !!

                                          import your final AVI to Adobe ..

                                          but honestly the quality of abode is not not compareable with vegas , Adobe is more Pro and has way better quality, I stoped using vegas since i got into Adobe stuff !! good luck !!

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                            justingiesbrecht Level 1

                                            kishoreda wrote:

                                             

                                            Justin

                                            the key is NOT to use any compression at all, so basically all your original footage shall have the same quality as long as you don't use any compression or filters...

                                            line up all your footage on vegas timeline , render as AVI without compression , vegas gives that option not to use compression at all...

                                            normally takes very less time with uncompressed data to render !!

                                            import your final AVI to Adobe ..

                                            but honestly the quality of abode is not not compareable with vegas , Adobe is more Pro and has way better quality, I stoped using vegas since i got into Adobe stuff !! good luck !!

                                             

                                            Kishoreda,  when you say better quality, like what kind of differences are you noticing? I could do the test, but why re-invent the wheel when you have done so already.

                                             

                                            Yeah I am taking a look into the Cineform and see what I can come up with. Maybe I will re-shoot the footage and start from scratch... will do a few more tests, and if no go, I will reshoot with our new FX1000 instead of that other camera. I will let you know the outcome of this next test.

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                              kishoreda-RrOFau Level 1

                                              well, an original footage is always an original footage...no matter where you take it, i believe its the editing program, which can bring a different at the end .

                                              well one of the the biggest different that i have noticed is the chroma function between the 2, i find vegas chroma keyer more of a consumer level (it works good but not as good as PPro) and i find Premiere chroma more detailed , specially with that garbage remover ability/ tool ..and more..

                                               

                                              color corrections , over all effects has way better result than vegas , some of the plug ins made for Adobe is wow, i don't know if they made one for vegas.

                                              and even the finale output file quality is flawless .

                                              there is much more to say tho !!

                                               

                                               

                                              here is what use vegas for:

                                               

                                              small simple commercials like 30 sec

                                               

                                              i use vegas to select my scenes and i save the file in AIFF , then i use AE or Premiere to add effects and transitions to it !!

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                                Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                                kishoreda wrote:

                                                 

                                                well, an original footage is always an original footage...no matter where you take it, i believe its the editing program, which can bring a different at the end .

                                                well one of the the biggest different that i have noticed is the chroma function between the 2, i find vegas chroma keyer more of a consumer level (it works good but not as good as PPro) and i find Premiere chroma more detailed , specially with that garbage remover ability/ tool ..and more..

                                                 

                                                You must be refering to the AE's chroma keyer or keylight.  Premiere's chroma keyer is notoriously terrible.

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                                  kishoreda-RrOFau Level 1

                                                  Curt have you used vegas's chroma keyer ?

                                                  ofcourse AE is amazing

                                                  but in my opnion Premiere chroma works good enough to do the job, raher than wasting my good couple hours on vegas 's chroma !!

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                                    sync2rhythm Level 1

                                                    kishoreda said:

                                                    ...honestly the quality of abode is not not compareable with vegas , Adobe is more Pro and has way better quality...

                                                    WTF?

                                                     

                                                    Obviously you have your favorite NLE... but to say "Adobe is more Pro and has way better quality" is a bit much.

                                                    Sounds like what I used to here about AVID being better than the other NLE's and ProTools being better than the other DAW's.

                                                    Neither of these statements nor yours is true.

                                                     

                                                    Truth is:

                                                    any of the NLE offerings can/will output professional results... but this is directly related to the knowledge of the Operator/Editor.

                                                     

                                                    Personally, I can give you the exact same quality & edit from FCP, Vegas, Premiere, and Avid but I choose to use them at different times for different reasons. Once you find an NLE that compliments your workflow... learn it, use it, master it.

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                                      kishoreda-RrOFau Level 1

                                                      well if you believe that vegas can produce the same quality as Adobe, then i let you decide for yourself...

                                                      I started using sony vegas over 5 years ago and  created many many project with it, till i came across Adobe about a year go, certain projects that i already finshed and closed the case i reopened them with Premiere CS3(just to see ) and i was amazed that how much the overall quality changed(after applying almost the same effect to them)  , for example i had a chroma part where i had to spend over 45 mins to make it look decent with vegas, it took me only 5 mins to get a a perfect chroma with Adobe.

                                                      other thing , that totally convinced me was the way each effect applies to a clip, for example "Color Correction" i was being able to do a almost perfect color correction with Adobe . I had trouble for many years to do that with vegas.

                                                      Choice is all yours my friend !!!

                                                      • 24. Re: Premiere Pro -vs- Vegas 9
                                                        dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                        sync2rhythm wrote:


                                                        Vegas is the only NLE I know of that truly mixes and matches video of different sizes, CoDecs, etc on the same timeline.

                                                        I thiknk you need to check this out http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-beginner-classes-with-dennis-radeke/episode-15-the-incredi ble-playback-demo/

                                                        Adobe Premiere Pro will mix and match just about anything you throw at it as well.  Not trashing Vegas (I've got a lot of friends at Sony) just clarifying a possible misconception on your part.

                                                        sync2rhythm wrote:

                                                         

                                                        In your situation... I would say, keep Vegas close by just so you can 'Conform' your media to match the rest of your footage same as I do because I too have experienced this 'Choppy' playback in most other NLE's until I 'Conform'.


                                                        While you don't need to convert your footage to one type to make it play nice in Premiere Pro, there's nothing wrong with this approach.  You can use Adobe Media Encoder to batch convert your clips (in the background) to your desired destination format.

                                                         

                                                        In general, I see many people using multiple NLE's in this day and age - something I see no problem with.

                                                         

                                                        Dennis