26 Replies Latest reply on Dec 4, 2009 12:15 PM by John Ratard

    PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project

    John Ratard Level 1

      I am new to CS4.  I have imported a PPro 1.5 project into CS4.  Initially, I tried to launch the CS4 project by double clicking the 1.5 project.  The 1.5 project was converted to CS4, however, when the CS4 project opened, there was not timeline.  I deleted the CS4 project, then opened CS4 as a new project selecting the corresponding 1.5 sequence.  A timeline was created.  I then imported the 1.5 project.  However, this time there was no indication of a project conversion.  I cut the project where I wanted to insert three jpg photos that were dragged from the project area into the timeline.  I used the 'Change to Color' Effect to harmonize the color in the three photos.  Each time I tried the effect my PC froze requiring a restart.

       

      What am I doing wrong or is there an error in the steps I have taken?

        • 1. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

          The 1.5 project was converted to CS4, however, when the CS4 project opened, there was not timeline.


          That is easily remedied by double clicking on the sequence in the project panel.

           

          Can you give details. Look here and answer the 16 questions at the end of the Wiki article. Some suggestions

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
            John Ratard Level 1

            Thanks Harm.

             

            I appreciate the need to get as much detail as possible to help.  I have a good deal of experience in IT so I tend to avoid sending information that in my experience has nothing to do with the problem.  However, I do not assume I have covered all the steps to solve the problem so the troubleshooting steps you provided will help me to cover all the bases.  I have used PPro 1.5 to create many videos and DVDs using the tools in Adobe Video Collection.

             

            The 16 questions are a challenge if all are to be answered without opening my new quad custom PC and removing the video card.  I will give what I know for now, the rest will have to wait.  I have not updated firmware or software yet, except for the latest updates for CS4.  I do have an outstanding question on how to know if a Flash CS4 and a security update has installed correctly since there is no indication in add/remove programs listing for installed software.

             

            My new custom PC comprises of the following:

            - ASUS p6TWS Professional motherboard

            - Intel i7 960 CPU

            -12 GB DDR3 1333 RAM

            - 4X 1TB HDs

            - ATI RADEON 4670 1G video card

            - LG Blueray writer

             

            OS is a new install of Windows 7 64 bit

             

             

            The subject reveals my PPro version and language.  1 new ASUS VH242 HDMI monitor and color quality set to True Color 32 bit.  Hard drives are brand new and virtually empty.  Adobe CS4 Production Premium I installed a few days ago.  I am going through the training provided with the software.  The project from PPro 1.5 runs OK as a prototype DVD and is in the final stages of production, waiting for the script writer's input.  I was hoping to further improve the focus of 8mm film I converted to DV.  I did have freezing problems in another PC running PPro 1.5 some time ago when dealing with photos that I overcame by continually saving and rendering as soon as possible.  I found that combining too many effects at once in PPro 1.5 created problems.  I am surprised that only one color effect in CS4 is creating problems with my new PC.

             

            I read the knowledge base article on a photo sequence problem.  I was not sure if that applied to my simple inserted 3 photo situation.  However, dealing with photos in PPro appears to be problematic from my experience.  Perhaps I should open a new project simply to deal with photos, render them as an output avi and then import the avi into PPro.  Hopefully there is a better solution that follows a strict sequence of workable steps to deal with photos in the main PPro project.

            • 3. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              The hardware is no problem, great setup. You have the 9.11 ATI drivers?

               

              What is your source material? DV? What is the size of the stills? Any more details on your project and sequence settings that may be relevant?

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Since the stated issue is now with the still images and the Effect added, pay particular attention to Harm's request for info on those. Here, more is definitely better. Answers to the other questions will likely prove useful too.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                 

                PS - Harm hit the Imported Project's Timeline display - Dbl-click on the Sequence in the Project Panel, after you have opened the necessary Bins.

                • 5. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                  John Ratard Level 1

                  Source: My source material is an AVI file that has been edited and rendered several times in PPro 1.5 from original AVIs created using CineCap to capture individual 8mm frames from a MovieStuff Workprinter XP (custom converted 8 mm projector).  The editing included auto levels, shadow/highlight, color correction, unsharp mask, and other attempted effects to remove water damage from high humidity and improve focus in the 8mm film from 1950s and 1960s South Pacific.  I was surprised to find that Unsharp Mask did a better job than Sharpen since the name does not help.  The results are quite good considering the condition of the old film.

                   

                  Stills: The size of the stills are 720 x 480 created in Photoshop CS from scanned photos @ 600dpi.  I use 123di information for help.

                   

                  Sequence: The sequence settings I tried to set as close as possible to the original AVI files for standard NTSC DV.  Since the AVI files rendered without significant problems in PPro 1.5, I imagined that the sequence settings were OK.  I chose DV-NTSC Standard 48kHz in CS4.

                   

                  Additional Info: The recent AVI file has been output to 3 DVDs as a prototype for final editing decisions.  I am hoping to use After Effects CS4 to remove unwanted images (e.g. a small spider web in top left hand corner of some sequences) and if possible to further improve focus.  The moca plugin looks interesting.

                   

                  Video Card: I do not know if the video card is adequate for CS4.  It was a decision I made on the spur of the moment that can be changed if necessary since the card is new.

                  • 6. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    John,

                     

                    It may be time consuming, I mention it because I have in the past experienced a similar situation when importing a project from a previous version into a later version, but it may be necessary to go through your whole timeline and identify each and every transition and effect that requires rendering in order to identify which of those did not transfer correctly from 1.5 to 4.2. Once you have identified which transition or effect may be causing this issue, you have to delete these and replace them with the 'same' effect from 4.2. In my case it was with effects from a plug-in.

                     

                    Just to be sure that your source material is using the correct codec (AVI is just a wrapper), check with GSpot that you are indeed using DV AVI type2. It may be possible that the codec is DV AVI type1, in which case that also can lead to trouble. You will then need to convert type1 into type2. DVConverter from GV/Canopus comes to mind.

                    • 7. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                      John Ratard Level 1

                      Thank you Harm for your experience and exceptional help.

                       

                      I will certainly look into the codec issue.  Since my South Pacific project is now 2 hours and 50 minutes long, I may have a lot of codec checking to do.

                       

                      It may be faster to start from the source AVI files created using the frame capture program CineCap and import these into CS4.  Unfortunately, the PPro 1.5 I used did not have frame capture capability.  I presume a codec was used in the CineCap program during the capture and AVI file creation.  Each 8mm 400 ft film to AVI conversion was done 4 times using higher and lower projector light intensity and attempts at better focus to finally select the sequences showing the best detail.  I gained lots of experience with 8mm film conversion to AVI, edits using combined effects, renders, and finally to DVD.  I lost count of the number of renders and output files to reach the project I imported into CS4.  I used a P4 CPU with P4P800E Deluxe motherboard PC that was slow compared to the new quad PC.  Some renders took up to 2 or more hours.  Now, I can look forward to immediately using what works and getting results much sooner.  Perhaps some of the problems I had with effects using PPro 1.5 were casued by a codec mismatch with Cinecap.  A mixed codec issue from PPro 1.5 in the CS4 source file could be my problem.

                       

                      When I know which codec version was used by CineCap, I can use one of the codec conversion programs you suggested to convert to the CS4 codec version.  How do I check which codec version was used in the CineCap program and the codec version used by CS4?

                      • 8. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        John,

                         

                        The freeware utility, G-Spot, will help determine the CODEC's used by your telecine progarm.

                         

                        As you found out, Unsharp Mask is a much better Effect, than any flavor of Sharpen. I know that the name doesn't bely its use, but you got it right.

                         

                        Now, when Importing Pr 6.5 Projects into PrPro 2.0, I actually got dialog messages on Transitions that would not come into the newer program. Adobe even provided me with the exact name of the Transition, and the TimeCode for where it was used. This was very useful, as a couple were no longer available in PrPro, and some were 3rd party Transitions. I took notes, went to those TimeCodes and just added the proper Transitions from those in PrPro. There were fortunately, no Effects that were 3rd pary, or were no longer available in PrPro 2.0, so I do not know how the program might, or might not, have handled those. I'd think that PrPro would have done similar with Effects, but I might be totally wrong.

                         

                        Just some thoughts,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                          John Ratard Level 1

                          Apologies Harm,

                           

                          You already answered my question.  G-Spot may have sent my thinking in the wrong direction.  I looked it up on the Internet and sure enough the freeware computer program G-Spot will determine codec information from an AVI file.  Also, you noted 'convert type 1 to type 2' so CS4 must use a type 2 codec.

                           

                          John

                          • 10. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                            John Ratard Level 1

                            I used GSpot to find that one of the three PPro 1.5 edited AVI source files I imported into PPro CS4 is as follows:

                             

                            Container section: DV Type 2 AVI, Multipart OpenDML AVI (3 parts).

                            Video section: Codec dvsd  Name DVC/DV  Status  Codec(s) are installed.

                             

                            It appears that the codec used in the PPro 1.5 editing was the same as the PPro CS4.  I also checked a source files used in PPro 1.5 from the CineCap portion of the telecine conversion.  GSpot showed the same DV Type 2 AVI.

                             

                            It would appear that my freezing problem with the 'Change to Color' effect on imported photos is not caused by a codec mismatch.  This is my first attempt with effects using CS4.  I have not tried other effects either on video clips or photos yet.

                            • 11. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              John,

                               

                              Am I correct in assuming that if you delete the 'change to color' effect, everything works as it should? If so, reintroduce this again in a single place, does it still work?

                              • 12. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                John Ratard Level 1

                                Hi Harm,

                                 

                                I am following the Change to Color Effect in the Correcting Color lesson from the learning DVD that comes with CS4 Production Premium.

                                 

                                With the 'From' eye dropper tool, I selected the green color from the green lawn in one photo from the Timeline panel then with the 'To' dropper I selected the lawn color in the next photo from the Source panel dealing with the same sequence.  I initially selected green because using the information in the di123 electronic photography manual, the eye is more sensitive to green.  However if the facial tones of the 'To' faces of subjects are not correct, I would modify my selection to arrive at a better effect.  The grass is not an even distribution of green color tones.  When I applied the effect on two attempts, my PC froze and required a cold reboot.

                                 

                                I did not delete the 'change to color' effect because, my PC having frozen, I did not detect it was applied.  Does what I did to apply the effect represent what you mean by "apply in a single place"?

                                • 13. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  John,

                                   

                                  A freeze that requires a cold reboot is serious and not always an application problem. Had you been able to do a warm reboot I would have expected a software problem, but a cold reboot is pretty rare these days, unless there is a hardware problem or conflict. Can you give us a detailed list of your hardware, OS and most telling give us as attachments and screenshots the info requested in the second link here: Some suggestions

                                   

                                  Especially the info from DXDIAG and Process Explorer can be very informative and you may have a difficult time using the camera icon for screenshots since the latest Jive update. It mimics Adobe updates: When it ain't broken, we'll break it.

                                  • 14. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Along with Harm's suggestions, this ARTICLE might help you find "clues," as to what is happening, when your system locks up, or crashes.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                      John Ratard Level 1

                                      Harm,

                                       

                                      In case I am confusing cold and warm boots, I used the reset button to restart my PC.  I have been used to calling a boot involving the Start and Reset buttons on my PC as a cold boot.  Am I correct?

                                       

                                      Apart from a problem with an effect in PPro CS4 that froze my quad PC, I have been able to import and scan through a project file in the project panel and time line, transfer video source files over my LAN for up to an hour, serf the Internet, download and install program files, and run the training DVD with no problems.  There may be resources associated with my problem that the other functions do not use.

                                       

                                      I gave you all the details I had readily available regarding my new quad PC.  All firmware and drivers should be relatively recent.  Conflicts may be the problem. It may be premature to assume that one effect so far means a hardware problem when running software.  I experienced reset boots with PPro 1.5 a few times on my other PC over the span of 5 years.

                                       

                                      I will follow your suggestions to do further checking and report back.

                                       

                                      Thank you for your continuing help,

                                       

                                      John

                                      • 16. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                        John Ratard Level 1

                                        Hunt,

                                         

                                        Thanks for your suggestions as well.   I appreciate your help and will check the ARTICLE.

                                         

                                        Now to my homework.  I also have a DC to DC converter prototype I am designing and testing so it may be a day or two before I get back.

                                         

                                        John

                                        • 17. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                          John Ratard Level 1

                                          Hi Fellows,

                                           

                                          I am back at soving my freezing problem after stress testing my DC to DC converter prototype and helping family solve general computer problems.

                                           

                                          I checked my Events Log to find a large number of Warnings for disk in the Error log of my new quad PC.  Event 51, Disk notes "An error was detected on device\Device\Harddisk4\DR4 during a paging operation".  I was not expecting this on a new PC.  However, it is custom built so I should not be surprised.

                                          In reviewing the problem an automatic message was sent to Microsoft by clicking the url to 'Events Log Online Help'.  I received a message with a suggested fix from the Action Center.  The message starts as follows:
                                          "Download and install the driver for your hard disk controller
                                          Your hard disk controller is missing a driver"
                                          This is followed by instructions on how to download, extract and install the driver from the ASUSTeK Computer Inc website.
                                          It can be surprising that without a driver, the hard disks would work at all.  However, error messages do not generally state the exact nature of the problem and it may be that the driver is not the correct one.  This may fix most of the errors and warnings in the logs and my freezing problem.
                                          Window 7 Ultimate appears to be more user friendly when solving problems in the events log.
                                          John
                                          • 18. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            John,

                                             

                                            Can you attach a screenshot from Process Explorer and the DXDIAG.TXT file. Instructions can be found in the second link included here: Some suggestions 

                                            • 19. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                              Level 1

                                              John,

                                              I googled the error messg you got in your event log;  Got an answer like this below:

                                              ------

                                              Source/Error #: Disk / error 51
                                              Message: An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk3\DR3 during a paging operation.
                                              Notes: This error indicates an I/O error during a hard page fault.   Discussed in KBs 304415 and 305547.

                                              ------

                                              I've built a couple computers but I'm no expert.  I kind of thought when I first read about your problems that the crashing might be a memory page swapping problem though I couldn't tell you why ...maybe the specs on your machine being so fast and powerful and the size of your AVI..and the fact it was freezing.

                                               

                                              I don't think this has anything at all to do with a hard drive driver, but latency between a memory page swap and getting through to your hard drive to finish the write to the drive.

                                               

                                              Further googling about the error message gave me the following info: but it seems you'd have to extract what is applicable to your situation.

                                               

                                              It may be that you have two variables happening at the same time in comparison to what you accomplished before with 1.5 ?

                                              1) a new machine

                                              2) a new program (CS4)

                                               

                                              I thought the reference below to using the local (boot) disk (instead of Disk 04) might be interesting to try ??

                                               

                                              follows is the info from googling the ms publications kb 304415 and 305547:

                                              ----------

                                              Your computer stops responding (hangs) or has slow response times. This can indicate that there is a high latency to the pagefile, and this may be accompanied by events in the System Log such as:
                                              Event ID: 51
                                              Event Type: Warning
                                              Event Source: Disk
                                              Description: An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk0\DR0 during a paging operation.

                                               

                                              Event ID: 11
                                              Source: %HBA_DRIVER_NAME%
                                              Description: The driver detected a controller error on Device\ScsiPort0.

                                               

                                              Event ID: 9
                                              Source: %HBA_DRIVER_NAME%
                                              Description: The device, \Device\ScsiPort0, did not respond within the timeout period.
                                              If the preceding error messages are in the System Log, it indicates that Windows was trying to access a disk and there was a problem. If the disk that is referenced is on the SAN, it could indicate a latency issue. If an Event ID 51 is shown, this indicates that Memory Manager was attempting to copy data to or from memory and had a problem. Another indicator of pagefile latency issues is if the Windows server has a system failure, and either of the following error messages are displayed on a blue screen:
                                              0x00000050 PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

                                               

                                              or

                                               

                                              0x0000000A IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
                                              A possible resolution is to place the pagefile on the host's local hard disk. Windows needs reliable access to the pagefile as data is paged in or out of memory. Having the pagefile local to the host guarantees that access is not influenced by other devices and hosts on the SAN.

                                               

                                              Note If the pagefile is not on the same partition as the boot partition (typically c:\Windows or c:\WINNT), the creation of a Memory.dmp file will not occur. A Memory.dmp file is used for troubleshooting a Windows computer that has a STOP error. For information about how to configure your computer for a crashdump, see Windows Help.
                                              There are several ways to resolve the preceding problems. The first method is to try and correlate the time with any events that are occurring on the SAN. For example, it HostA was doing a large copy operation and HostB reports the Error 9s, it may imply that proper LUN management is not in place. Another example is if HostB produces errors whenever HostA is rebooted. This may indicate that FC-AL is being used and HostB is being affected by a Loop Initialization Primitive (LIP) sequences from HostA. These can often be corrected by re-configuring the SAN, and this requires the assistance of the hardware vendor. Any type of latency issues might be resolved by placing pagefile on the Windows server's local hard disk, but again, this disables the creation of a memory dump. A key point to understand is that the hardware vendor of the SAN will have the most information about the proper configuration, and must be the first point of contact for all configuration questions and concerns.

                                              • 20. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                Level 1

                                                John,

                                                Me again...was thinking after sending last mssg...again I am not an expert...so take with grain of salt...

                                                 

                                                years ago I used to have to deal with twain and peripheral devices (scanners) issues...and (I'm thinking maybe this was with Windows 95 ?) and scsi devices (virtual in my case) and ....it was always worth checking for IRQ conflicts and DMA (dynamic memory addresses ) assigned to certain hardware elements of a system...  Might be worth checking out your computer to see if you have any conflicts and if any of your hardware manufacturers suggest anything specific ??

                                                 

                                                Rod

                                                • 21. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                  John Ratard Level 1

                                                  I have not become fully involved with my freezing problem yet because of other commitments.

                                                   

                                                  I must apologize because I missed noting that I connected an external Western Digital 500 GB HD to the new quad PC.  I use the external drive to store video source files and for backup.  This HD was originally attached to my second PC before transferring it to the quad.  I have not installed the external WD software on the new quad yet.  However, on booting up the quad today, I notice that there is a lot of activity taking place between the quad and the external WD drive, even though I had not performed any operations on the quad.  I do not use or refer to the external WD drive for any video editing work.  It is just used to store and transfer files to internal drives as needed.  I will remove it until I trouble shoot the quad, in case the external drive is the problem.

                                                   

                                                  Can an external drive be a problem when attached to a quad PC?  If so, I can temporarily connect the external drive to store and retrieve files in future then remove it, or reattach it to my second PC and send files over the LAN.

                                                   

                                                  This is a good learning experience for me.  Thanks for your continuing support.

                                                   

                                                  John

                                                  • 22. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    John,

                                                     

                                                    Is any of the media, linked in your Project, on that external? What is the connection, USB, FW-400, FW-800 or eSATA?

                                                     

                                                    Software for the WD should not be needed. It should be mostly utilities and maybe some form of backup software. I found that the Maxtor utilities and their drivers, could fritz up things with their USB externals.

                                                     

                                                    Now, I use FW-800's and many of these contain all of my Projects, including the Assets and Scratch Disks. When I boot up, there IS a lot of activity, as Windows checks these externals, and does things like get their info into Windows Explorer. The light flash a bunch and for several moments. This is normal. In my case, each external has a unique drive letter assigned in the OS of each computer that they might be plugged into. This is some of the "stuff" that the OS is looking at. By setting that drive letter assignment, each external is ALWAYS seen with that drive letter. Must be set in the OS of each computer.

                                                     

                                                    Going back, I tried using USB's to edit to/from. I found two problems with the externals of those days: they were slow as could be, and I got Delayed Write Errors, plus Read/Write issues with these. I now use them JUST for archival storage of media Assets, and will Copy these over to the internals, or to my FW-800 externals, when I go to edit. I do not link to any of the Assets on these USB externals - never. Same thing for my NAS drive. I store, but Copy, before editing.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                      John Ratard Level 1

                                                      Hunt

                                                       

                                                      None of my projects are linked to an external drive.  I only use them to store and retrieve avi files for my internals.  The connection is FW.  I am not very experienced with FWs but the WD I have is several years old and is probably 400.  It also has a USB2 port.  The quad motherboard is an ASUS P6T WS Professional.  I haven't had a chance to read the whole manual yet but the specifications show 1394a with no mention of speed.  In any case, the speed I get will be the lowest in the connection.

                                                       

                                                      John

                                                      • 24. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                        The WS Pro only has 1394A and the A means FW400. 1394B is FW800, but none of the P6T range have that on board AFAIK.

                                                        • 25. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          OK, no vestige of the Project is on the external. Any necessary media has been Copied over to the internals. I'd disconnect the WD external, just as a test. It should have no influence, but then we could rule it out completely.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                           

                                                          PS - back when, I never had a single issue with a FW-400 external, except for the slow connection.

                                                          • 26. Re: PC freezes with CS4 when editing imported image in imported 1.5 project
                                                            John Ratard Level 1

                                                            Hi Harm, Hunt, and Rod,

                                                             

                                                            Thank you for your patience and help.

                                                             

                                                            I solved my disk warning problem this morning by removing the WD hard drive (HD).  My custom build technician has suggested I try a second FW400 port on my quad to see if that works.  If I cannot remove the Warnings with the HD connected to the quad, I shall live with either connecting and disconnecting when transfers are needed or reconnecting to my second slower PC and transferring files over the LAN.  A difference in transfer speed and convenience will decide what I live with.  I still have a couple of atikmdag Errors i.e. "Display is not active" plus a few others Warnings to deal with.

                                                             

                                                            I tried the Effect 'Change to Color' again, the source of the freeze.  It now works with no freeze.  Upon reflection, I believe I changed the way I selected the color of the 'to' eye dropper.  I initially selected the color from the jpg photo in the source frame.  I now selected the color from the photo frame in the timeline.  This could have been the problem.  In any case, this helped me to solve a Warning issue with the new quad and a to review a few other Events.

                                                             

                                                            John