9 Replies Latest reply on Sep 16, 2010 5:56 PM by Cris is Bliss

    Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not

    Cris is Bliss Level 1

      Hello all,

       

      I had shot some footage using a green screen but got carried away with moving the camera and got a lot of good shots that I would like to use, but because of the camera movement the subject is at times halfway off the greenscreen or her head or arms keep crossing the tracking markers, her legs or feet cross the light stand and in one shot (see below) I was backing up to get as much distance as possible and got behind the light stand but kept on shooting with the pole continually cutting across the frame. (dont ask what drug i was on).

       

      Ive been intimidated by Mocha but decided this may be the time to start using it since it is supossed to roto easier than AE.  But by looking at the Mocha tutorials I'm not sure if this is the kind of footage that Mocha should be used for.  The tutorials on Imagineers site show footage that is much cleaner in its defined edges.  As i said I have the problems listed above and to add to that I was zoom in and out on the subject, she tosses her hair etc....

       

      Is Mocha the answer for this or will i just have to suffer with Corpal Tunnel Syndrome for the next couple of days.

       

      p.s.  How are tracking markers usually handled anyway.  In big budget films I've seen the whole length of a green screen with a grid of tracking markers.  is there a easy way to remove them after keying or is it just in their budget to pay someone to do all that roto-ing.

       

      Thank you

       

      Im on a mac, I have Mocha  and Mocha shape for AE, using CS4

        • 1. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Even with Mocha this is going to take hours, maybe days. Roto would take days.

           

          I'd go the Mocha site and take a look at the tutorials. It's really not that hard to figure out, but there are things in your shot that are going to be very hard to track. You'll have to do the best you can with the parts that will track, then roto the parts that won't.

           

          All that long hair is going to be especially difficult, even to key. It's always more efficient to plan something like this carefully instead of just thinking you can fix anything in post. Good luck.  You might try posting a shot that you think would be difficult to Youtube so we can get a better idea of how to help.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
            xavierpayne Level 1

            Yer gonna have no choice but to roto no matter what you do for the clips where

            she is off the green screen.

             

            I also notice your green screen isn't lit evenly and has wrinkles. (mine is usually the same way).

             

            From my experience the best way to key the footage is going to be to use several normal color keys (NOT KEYLIGHT). I'd start em out with a 50% color tolerance and 3% edge feather. Do one color key close to the subject at those settings. Then just keep adding them further out until you've got most of the green removed. Then use a garbage mask for the very outer frame edges. You're gonna need to roto that as well since the camera moves.

             

            As you get further out you may also need to drop the color tolerance to 30% or lower for certain color keys to avoid keying out the subject.

             

            Once you're happy with the keying just apply a Simple Choker with a choke matte of 2.0.

             

            Works like a charm for me every time. When ever I've tried to use keylight with uneven green screens I nearly always end up having the keying bleed into my subject. Or I get borders around the subject I just can't get rid of.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
              Cris is Bliss Level 1

              Thank you Rick,

               

              I will go through the tutorials again,

              • 4. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                Cris is Bliss Level 1

                Thank You  Xavier,

                 

                I will try the other keying tool,  I always use Keylight since it is so highly praised and have never really tried any othe the others.  I've got to invest in some kind of hand held steamer so that I can get those rinkles out.

                • 5. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                  xavierpayne Level 1

                  Chris> I wouldn't even bother. I bought a hand steamer and spent hours before my first shoot steaming out the wrinkles.

                  While it certainly helped for getting out the heavy creases from when the fabric was shipped folded I haven't used it since.

                   

                  I also started out trying to use keylight since I'd heard so much about it. I also followed a handful of tutorials on videocopilot.net that use it.

                   

                  Videocopilot actually suggests a hybrid approach which mixes plain color keys with keylight... From my own experience (mileage varies I'm sure) it's just easier to stick with several plain color keys. Rarely do I need to color key more than 5 shades of green with 50-30% Tolerance each.

                   

                  So now I just leave the wrinkles in as they are rarely a problem.

                   

                  I notice you are lighting the screen from a better angle than I usually do (side to side). What's neet about the way you have yours setup is your key lights can also serve as spill lights.

                   

                  I usually have 2 500 watt halogens blasting directly onto the green screen(one from front bottom, one from front top). Then I need 2 60-75 watt spill lights pointed at the back of my subject to prevent green spill. Your setup looks both simpler and more professional than mine.

                   

                  Thanks for sharing the pictures!

                  • 6. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                    Cris is Bliss Level 1

                    Are the 2 60 - 75 watt bulbs that you use as spill lights effective in reducing or elimination the greenscreen spill?  I run into problems because when shooting in the house I don't have enough room between my self the artist, and the artist and the greenscreen.

                    • 7. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                      xavierpayne Level 1

                      In my case yes. In fact I had them on a dimmer dialed back a bit (don't remember how much). It really doesn't take a lot of light to wash out the green. In my case I just had one pointing down from above and one up from below directly at the back of my subjects.

                       

                      If I could still see green on their arms, hair, etc I dialed up the spill lights (not sure if that's what they are actually called).

                       

                      Once I could not see any green spill with the naked eye I commenced filming.

                       

                      The footage I captured keyed perfectly in AE with the technique I described earlier. In the past I never used spill lighting and always had problems with green spill that was just too much for even the spill suppressor in AE to handle.

                       

                      Live and learn I guess.

                      • 8. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                        xavierpayne Level 1

                        How did you make out with this project?

                        • 9. Re: Save me from Rotoscoping Hell ----Please!!!     Advise Mocha or not
                          Cris is Bliss Level 1

                          Unfortunately, the project was abandon, but not because of the roto work, and I still have'nt gotten a chance to really work with Mocha.

                           

                            What projects have you been doing lately?