21 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2008 2:08 PM by Newsgroup_User

    Tables too high in safari 3  UPDATE -SOLVED

    Karlhevera Level 1
      after I made all the adjustments, everything seems to be working OK in both IE and Safari 3. Except the tables. They are always too high.. What can I do, please?

      karl,London

      Update:

      I got a message that it also was too high in Mozilla. I experimented and came up with such a simple solution, that I am absolutely astonished that neither of your guys, even the 'experts' and 'seniors'. who were so fast off the mark to voice their critique and telll how crappy it all was..
      The SIMPLE solution:
      the original line I had, for example:
      <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p class="normal_text">Any text</p></td>

      SHOULD BE:
      <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="normal_text">Any text</td>

      simple, but NONE of your quys, even those who had a look, could see such a simple error or mine..:-))
      Moral of the story: Look and think before your bark... because you will sure look a proper idiot...
      :-) end of problem... rip...
      karl,London
        • 1. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
          Ben M Adobe Community Professional
          I think I remember this topic from before from you. Can you post a link to the page again (the search function on this forum is horrible)?
          • 2. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
            Level 7
            Many of us use NNTP and older posts disappear from our view. Please post a
            url to the problem page.

            --Nancy O.
            Alt-Web Design & Publishing
            www.alt-web.com


            "Karlhevera" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:g4g3uj$ne1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > after I made all the adjustments, everything seems to be working OK in
            both IE and Safari 3. Except the tables. They are always too high.. What
            can I do, please?
            >
            > karl,London


            • 3. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
              Karlhevera Level 1
              nancy O: I think it was your good self, who suggested that I download Safari for windows. I have done so and have made various adjustments, as suggested by djinn and other. The tables work fine in IE, as you will perhaps see, but are far too high in Safari..
              Yes, I did post a similar topic. As a result I removed all the 'height' attributes and the single table has a class of its own.
              http://www.gardensoflondon.co.uk is the site


              karl,london
              • 4. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                Level 7
                On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 19:07:32 +0000 (UTC), "Karlhevera"
                <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                >nancy O: I think it was your good self, who suggested that I download Safari
                >for windows. I have done so and have made various adjustments, as suggested
                >by djinn and other. The tables work fine in IE, as you will perhaps see, but
                >are far too high in Safari..
                > Yes, I did post a similar topic. As a result I removed all the 'height'
                >attributes and the single table has a class of its own.
                > http://www.gardensoflondon.co.uk is the site
                >
                >
                > karl,london

                Please don't shoot the messenger but:

                Still problems with IE7 for users that need to increase text size with
                ctrl +

                menus misbehave

                yes Safari does show some differences - but it too has problems when
                user increases font size.

                But major problem with IE6 - the menus don't work you end up with page
                not found - as it uses the wrong address.


                but not suprising you have these problems as the validator still shows
                47 errors
                http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gardensoflondon.co.uk%2F&charset=(detec t+automatically)&doctype=Inline&ss=1&group=0&verbose=1

                --

                ~Malcolm~*...
                ~*
                • 5. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                  Level 7
                  On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 19:07:32 +0000 (UTC), "Karlhevera"
                  <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                  >nancy O: I think it was your good self, who suggested that I download Safari
                  >for windows. I have done so and have made various adjustments, as suggested
                  >by djinn and other. The tables work fine in IE, as you will perhaps see, but
                  >are far too high in Safari..

                  oh and this error has come back - I thought you had fixed it once

                  css should be:

                  margin-left:10; needs a unit either px, em, % etc etc

                  html,body{

                  padding:0;

                  height:93%;

                  border:none;

                  margin-left:10;


                  --

                  ~Malcolm~*...
                  ~*
                  • 6. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                    Level 7
                    Malcolm _ wrote:

                    >
                    > Please don't shoot the messenger but:
                    >

                    I'm afraid the OP, despite having been given good advice, is determined
                    to learn the hard way - I'd urge him to learn some CSS and HTML before
                    committing any more time to this - it would be better to start afresh.

                    I understand the desire to hear what one wants to hear - but - before it
                    all gets out of hand it would be sensible to rebuild before it's too
                    late and publishing-time comes on all too quickly.

                    Just my tuppence ha'penny!

                    --
                    chin chin
                    Sinclair
                    • 7. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                      Karlhevera Level 1
                      djinn: I am no longer all that concerned that it does NOT work in Safari. I was more than gladdened the other day, when I discovered that a MAJOR UK bank, which has extensive online banking, DOES NOT support Safari 3... Who am I am to *****, about a small niche website for freaks/geeks into gardening in London? RIP...
                      end of thread...:-) Thanks for all your comment...But will try, for the last time the code, suggested above...
                      • 8. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                        Karlhevera Level 1
                        Malcolm: changed to 5px, as 10 threw it out of alignment. But did not remedy the height in Safari, though... as I said earlier - so what...:-) RIP
                        • 9. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                          Level 7
                          On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:48:49 +0000 (UTC), "Karlhevera"
                          <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                          >djinn: I am no longer all that concerned that it does NOT work in Safari.

                          Problem is Apple mac users are most certainly not all geeks -

                          lot's of artistic people seem to use Macs - and I believe a fair
                          number of garder designers.

                          --

                          ~Malcolm~*...
                          ~*
                          • 10. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                            bregent Most Valuable Participant
                            >I am no longer all that concerned that it does NOT work in Safari

                            The site is horrendous in all other browsers too. My text size is different than yours so the whole site is a mess. Look what happens to it when you increase the text size. Lots of other rookie mistakes too. Hopefully nobody is paying you for this.
                            • 11. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                              Ben M Adobe Community Professional
                              Karl. Because it's a holiday weekend and I didn't have much to do I put together your page again for you so that it works in every browser without a single issue. There was no need on your site for XHTML 1.0 Strict to be used so I validated it against XHTML 1.0 Transitional. You can even put the page into the validator to prove this point:

                              http://validator.w3.org/ - Link to Validator

                              The link to the page is online at my website right now:

                              http://www.parkwaygaming.com/test/gardens_london.php - Link to live page

                              I put an image in the middle that is extremely large just to show the scrolling. Keep in mind that I did this fairly quickly so font faces and sizes might be slightly off from what you had before. Also I did not have the little gallery from your homepage, nor the Flash animation so obviously those are missing as well. I also only tested this in Firefox 3 and Safari 3 and from being 100% validated I can rest assured that it would look ok in IE 6/7. I can check that later if you need me to.

                              Send me an email over to bmurr22@gmail.com and I would be willing to send you the source to save you the hassle. But I will send it with some instructions about what is going on. I'm hoping seeing this will show you what we were all trying to explain, although not very well if your problem still exists. At the very least I hope it makes you question this to see what you were doing and the difference between your previous layout and this one.
                              • 12. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                Level 7
                                On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:33:02 +0000 (UTC), "SnakEyez02"
                                <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                                >Karl. Because it's a holiday weekend and I didn't have much to do I put
                                >together your page again for you so that it works in every browser without a
                                >single issue. There was no need on your site for XHTML 1.0 Strict to be used
                                >so I validated it against XHTML 1.0 Transitional. You can even put the page
                                >into the validator to prove this point: I also only tested this in Firefox 3 and Safari 3 and from
                                >being 100% validated I can rest assured that it would look ok in IE 6/7. I can
                                >check that later if you need me to.
                                >

                                What a wonderful chap :-)


                                something not right in IE6 - the scrolling box containing the image
                                has disappeared and the image very large.

                                --

                                ~Malcolm~*...
                                ~*
                                • 13. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                  Karlhevera Level 1
                                  bregent: thanks for very much for your horrendous comments.... It is nice to know that there are so, so, so many members, even Senior ones, who are very quick to criticise and shout their mouths off... But very short on providing proper, constructive help, so that we could avoid these so called 'horrendous; pages. If I want stupid critique, I just need to look in the mirror...

                                  However, members, not so senior ones, have a much better attitude and this should be commended...

                                  • 14. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                    Karlhevera Level 1
                                    bregent: VERY VERY strange. My BT Yahoo IE is set at 'medium' font size. I have changed the view to the smallest, as well as the largest. Hardly all over the place...
                                    • 15. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                      Level 7
                                      On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC), "Karlhevera"
                                      <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                                      >bregent: thanks for very much for your horrendous comments.... It is nice to
                                      >know that there are so, so, so many members, even Senior ones, who are very
                                      >quick to criticise and shout their mouths off... But very short on providing
                                      >proper, constructive help, so that we could avoid these so called 'horrendous;
                                      >pages. If I want stupid critique, I just need to look in the mirror...
                                      >
                                      > However, members, not so senior ones, have a much better attitude and this
                                      >should be commended...
                                      >

                                      Karl,

                                      To some extent - when you come in here - you do lay your self open to
                                      some critical eyes - and I think that 95% + are genuinely trying to
                                      help - and some are rather brutal !!!.

                                      I have learnt a tremendous amount here and learnt a great deal and I
                                      think maybe the best approach is to digest, learn and use the info
                                      provided to increase you web building skills.

                                      Yes - you take a few knocks, but that is life..............


                                      My advice still is to check ones site works in IE6,7, FF ( for some PC
                                      and Mac users , Safari ( for Mac users ). Checking for Opera is good
                                      too for some rather limited amount of users - perhaps more her in
                                      Europe than USA .

                                      For a REALLY REALLY good development tool - I would recommend using
                                      Firefox with http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/ installed


                                      --

                                      ~Malcolm~*...
                                      ~*
                                      • 16. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                        Ben M Adobe Community Professional
                                        Malcolm, I have sent the necessary information back to Karl. In regards to IE 6, I didn't figure that out 100% for him with the demo. In IE 7, Firefox 3, and Safari 3 it should work fine. The problem is that in IE 6 does not recognize the third level of CSS which includes the overflow-x and overflow-y attributes. I do believe it can do overflow: auto; instead of declaring them separately as I did. The reason it was that way was because I found a super large image and I didn't want it to scroll left and right as I knew it would. But if the content is going to stick to a specific width, then the overflow: auto should save it. If not an IE 6 hack might be needed to make it work for the older browser.

                                        The following is a really good resource to look at for browser usage:

                                        http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

                                        IE 6 has been on a decline while IE 7 was stagnant but now appears to finally be turning around. If the users of his site do use IE 6, it might be more effective to use a table layout over a CSS layout just because IE 6 and earlier tended to lack the CSS standards whereas Safari, Opera and Firefox tended to use a fairly similar rendering engine and now IE 7 is catching on to the standards.
                                        • 17. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                          Level 7
                                          SnakEyez02 wrote:
                                          > Malcolm, I have sent the necessary information back to Karl. In regards to IE
                                          > 6, I didn't figure that out 100% for him with the demo. In IE 7, Firefox 3,
                                          > and Safari 3 it should work fine. The problem is that in IE 6 does not
                                          > recognize the third level of CSS which includes the overflow-x and overflow-y
                                          > attributes. I do believe it can do overflow: auto; instead of declaring them
                                          > separately as I did. The reason it was that way was because I found a super
                                          > large image and I didn't want it to scroll left and right as I knew it would.
                                          > But if the content is going to stick to a specific width, then the overflow:
                                          > auto should save it. If not an IE 6 hack might be needed to make it work for
                                          > the older browser.
                                          >
                                          > The following is a really good resource to look at for browser usage:
                                          >
                                          > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
                                          >
                                          > IE 6 has been on a decline while IE 7 was stagnant but now appears to finally
                                          > be turning around. If the users of his site do use IE 6, it might be more
                                          > effective to use a table layout over a CSS layout just because IE 6 and earlier
                                          > tended to lack the CSS standards whereas Safari, Opera and Firefox tended to
                                          > use a fairly similar rendering engine and now IE 7 is catching on to the
                                          > standards.
                                          >

                                          Hey I was following - hope you don't mind a suggestion.

                                          How about a CC such as.....

                                          <!--[if lte IE 6]><style>#main_content{width: 720px; overflow:
                                          auto;}</style><![endif]-->

                                          I know it gives a hor scrollbar but I think it looks better that way or
                                          at least visually it is more like the rest of the browsers on XPPro at
                                          least!

                                          Just another opinion :-)

                                          --
                                          chin chin
                                          Sinclair
                                          • 18. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                            Ben M Adobe Community Professional
                                            I could try that on the page later. It's a shame MS doesn't realize that their browser is fairly OS specific and most people on XP have not upgraded. It's a shame they don't just release a small patch for IE 6 to update its ability for CSS. But already they are focused on IE 8 which is in beta so I guess that was out of the question a long time ago.
                                            • 19. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                              Level 7
                                              SnakEyez02 wrote:
                                              > I could try that on the page later. It's a shame MS doesn't realize that their
                                              > browser is fairly OS specific and most people on XP have not upgraded. It's a
                                              > shame they don't just release a small patch for IE 6 to update its ability for
                                              > CSS. But already they are focused on IE 8 which is in beta so I guess that was
                                              > out of the question a long time ago.
                                              >

                                              Indeed! - I have IE7 and a standalone IE6 install - I'm just grateful
                                              that there are CC's that IE understands - it's not ideal but you have to
                                              be thankful for small mercies from MS ;-)

                                              --
                                              chin chin
                                              Sinclair
                                              • 20. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                                Karlhevera Level 1
                                                Malcom_... I am far too long in a tooth to mind too too much about the knocks... But what does p++s me off is that those who bark the loudest seldom come up with any useful information or how to rectify a problem...It would be ABSOLUTELY wonderful if those loud howlers came up with something useful...:-)

                                                True, I have got some good help here. Often have solved the problem my own way.. Perhaps not all that 'ellegant' or 'good' but it works... so far.

                                                I am still stuck with the table's height.. They are just too high in Safari 3.. Any ideas?

                                                • 21. Re: Tables too high in safari 3
                                                  Level 7
                                                  On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 20:37:19 +0000 (UTC), "Karlhevera"
                                                  <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                                                  >Malcom_... I am far too long in a tooth to mind too too much about the
                                                  >knocks... But what does p++s me off is that those who bark the loudest seldom
                                                  >come up with any useful information or how to rectify a problem...It would be
                                                  >ABSOLUTELY wonderful if those loud howlers came up with something useful...:-)
                                                  >
                                                  > True, I have got some good help here. Often have solved the problem my own
                                                  >way.. Perhaps not all that 'ellegant' or 'good' but it works... so far.
                                                  >
                                                  > I am still stuck with the table's height.. They are just too high in Safari
                                                  >3.. Any ideas?
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  You will always find some browsers display differently - often in a
                                                  very minor and subtle way - even if all html & css is 100%.

                                                  but you have a number of errors still:
                                                  http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gardensoflondon.co.uk%2Findex.htm&chars et=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&ss=1&group=0&verbose=1#line-180

                                                  and some browsers are more tolerant than others.

                                                  for example look at line 180 & line 188 - you use id="Image1" more
                                                  than once.


                                                  I really suggest you work your way through these errors and check
                                                  every page with the validotor - or unpredictably results can be
                                                  expected.

                                                  You've used a strict doctype - it might help to change it to
                                                  transitional to start with - and change back after illiminating some
                                                  of the errors.

                                                  hope that helps

                                                  --

                                                  ~Malcolm~*...
                                                  ~*