No i'm sorry a adobe première pro update have been recently restart my question about this
so... do you have a recent opinion???
do you have a recent opinion???
Use a real video camera. DSMC may be coming, but it's not quite ready yet. Mostly because the models out there don't shoot in standard video formats.
I have success dropping the footage from a D5 into a 720p timeline.
I have not tried any other sequence settings because I have not had the need to ... and its likely that there is a better one.
I export out uncompressed .mov for highest quality and use AMEncoder for other tasks.
Edited for flaming content.
But poster made some valid points.
Message was edited by: Jerry.K, forum moderator
At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth or something
I use 'Sony XD CAM EX 720p 30fps' usually (30fps is actually 29.97fps in PPro antway). The pixel aspect ratio matches the 5D video.
I render the MOV files into MPEG2 which does loose some definition even if I ramp the bitrate right up to 40Mbps like the 5D produces, I guess it is compression doing it. I am posting video on YouTube or DVD and am more interested in producing something than getting a head ache figuring the way to perfection! Bleah...
Need a faery godphotographer to provide the perfect solution, until then I will not waste too much time trying to follow the multitude of options being pushed by every other person who claims to know
Hope that helps somewhat.
P.S. was tempted to do this in red but thought better of it hehe
Here is a Link to PPRO 720P Project mixing D5 (.movs) with HVX 202 (mxf - DVPROHD) in a P2 720 preset
I should add to the O.P that I have RayLight DVCProHD encoder installed. This may make a dfference in the ease of handling the QT material on PC
Nice Video, I like the multiple layers sort of swimming amongst each other.
Here is a link to a video I compiled using the workflow mentioned above
I think it is pretty good for YouTube, if you watch it in HD.
I think they are fantastic (all three videos), not perfect but beautiful even so.
Your vids brought back good memories.
I rode Nelson - Wanaka ...and beyond ...last Xmas on a motorcycle with missus shooternz. as pillion
Gotta be one of the best MC rides on the planet..
You're a man after my own heart, except now my bike is living in the garage, the elements make it too much of an adventure sometimes, espescially down there on the rain soaked westcoast! But it is enchanted country, a last bastion sort of place, where the real spirit hangs out
I hitch hiked there one time, man it was hard!
It has been discussed, Harm Millaarad, but never addressed by Adobe.
Is there a patch coming out to fix the H.264/MOV playback issues with files made on the Canon 5D and 7D cameras?
I really don't know. There have been long threads about the support of the 5D and similar cameras. I assume by the number of reads and posts there must be some workaround suggested there, if not a solution to your problem. It is one of the topics that I haven't followed, since it has no relevancy for me.
I spent the majority of last night and this morning reading them. The solutions "provided" by the community include:
1. Rewrapping the MOV files as MP4 files. This requires a not-long conversion process, a third party tool and then remapping and relinking all of the video and audio files again.
2. Transcoding the MOV files completely to another file type like MPG.
3. Buying another piece of software called "Neo Scene" and using it to transcode the video lightly.
4. Setting up proxy files.
As you can see, none of these are ideal, especially if you are using 20+ files and 15GB+ of data and are on any kind of schedule. It makes ZERO sense that I can playback these MOV files from my Canon 7D flawlessly on a free piece of software like VLC Player but not in my multi-thousand dollar video editing suite from Adobe.
Is that fair to say?
And the fact that all of these solutions have come from the community while Adobe has remained silent on the matter is simply unnerving to me as a paying, registered customer.
You are confusing PLAYING a video file and EDITING a video file, which are completely different things. With the plethora of codecs on the market it is unrealistic to expect Adobe to support all or even the majority of these codecs. Lucky for us it does not. It would have caused the already heavy footprint of Adobe software to become even more bothersome and trouble prone than it is now. Let Canon and Nikon support their cameras and give you the tools for editing the material of make it suitable for editing in programs like AVID, Adobe or FCP. Programs that support all industry video standards, not the esoteric formats some manufacturers use.
Thanks for replying but I don't see your point as true. If there was choppiness and slow down in the preview of the final render of the sequence, I could understand that.
But I do feel that users of the PP CS4 should be able get smooth playback to set in and out points on the preview window, don't you agree? There should be no "editing" required for that - simply scaling to fit the window size.
I have no experience with video from the 5D, only with the 7D, but...
You may want to take a look at this thread: Link
If you want to try ffdshow, make sure to make a restoration point before you install.
I tried to edit my post, but that was not so easy right now, so...
My link got a #some-number to it so you have to scroll up to at least post number 2.
Even though I have seen a couple of things that "sure, to use a real video camera is the best thing", I do wonder if those who scream the highest against using a SLR for video really have tried it. No offence meant, but I have been surprised by the 7D.
Are you saying install the "Squeeze" app fixed the choppy playback of the 7D files?
No, I was saying that Squeeze w/ffdshow are the only other apps on that PC which I think can affect Premiere's handling of footage.
I had Squeeze before I got my hands on the 7D so I have no idea on how it works without.
In case this helps, this has been successful for me.
1 Upload all .mov files from 5D
2 Run them through Media Encoder using P2 format. (I did try MPEGStreamClip, but could not find a format that would edit successfully)
3 Edit as usual - everything now works smoothly for me. The files are still 1080 size.
4 Expoort using Media Encoder to your chosen output format. I have tried Flash and DVD and both were fine.
I still have a problem with jerky pans, and will be posting a question about that. I am working in PAL, but should be same for NTSC.
I'm amazed that the "I can't edit 5D Mark II video with Premiere" cries are still surfacing. C'mon folks, that problem was solved months ago. OK, it's true, you have to spend an additional $99 for a utility (I'll mention that shortly), but that's life, every software package can't support everything. The problem is partly QuickTime, don't 100% blame Adobe. If you bought a 5D2 and want to produce video, you need to be ready to invest in some things, no getting around it.
First, the 5D2 puts out 1080p HD clips in H.264 at 30FPS, not the 29.97 NTSC standard. Keep that Post-It stuck on your forehead for a minute. Now, here's how to edit smooth and wonderfully in Pr CS4:
- Go to VideoGuys.com and buy Cineform's NeoScene for $99.
- Open your 5D2 .mov file with NeoScene, and hit Convert.
- NeoScene will produce an .AVI file that will easily edit in Premiere. The .AVI file will be bigger in size than the raw 5D2 file, and will be interpolated from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 (8-bit to 10-bit), just FYI. It's interpolated, don't expect miracles, but to me the video looks a bit better.
- Import the .AVI into Pr and have fun. PrE should equally work I would assume.
That's it, simple! BTW, someone mentioned VLC... yeah, it plays video smooth, and the video quality looks like a busted cellphone recorded it.
OK, couple of items:
- If you record your audio to a .WAV separately like I do, just tweak your speed to 99.9% on the .WAV and all will be in sync. The 5D2 has rotten S/N ratio even with an add-on XLR converters; don't muck with on-board sound, just shoot your video on it. The Zoom H4N is a superb solution to record sound separately. OK, remove Post-It Note.
- I assume you have some horsepower in your PC. If you're running an older dual core with 1GB ram and a single hard drive, game's over. You need power to edit. Get on the Black Friday deals and get some form of an i7 rig if you can with at least ONE separate hard drive for your assets, and 6GB of ram minimum (12gb is better).
- Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7 Windows 7
- See #3
Win 7 plays many formats natively. WMP plays my raw 5D2 clips as smooth as silk. It's also AVCHD native (Win 7 that is).
Oh, when you open a new project, just pick HDV 1080p 30FPS and you'll be good to go. Save it as "Canon 5D Mark II" and you'll have this nifty custom preset to fit your world.
Hello FairyGodPhotogr... um PaulieDC,
Very interesting what you say about windows7 I might have to give it a try.
I have i7 with 6GB of ram plus various HDD
If you're still there, I have heard good things about Twixtor, what do you think?
Is it better than Neoscene?
Interesting about deepening the colour range, Logic says that the result would be no better but perhaps it would endure more post manipulations do you think?
No, no FairyGodPhotographer, just His servant. BUT, you have a good rig with the i7, so don't wait any longer, get Win 7! Microsoft got it RIGHT this time, finally.
Ya know, I've got NeoScene this summer and it worked, so I haven't tried others such as Twixtor. Download trials of both and see what you think.
I wondered about the conversion to 4:2:2, if it gives you any elbow room for editing over 8-bit. But to be honest, I have nothing to compare it to. I got PP CS4 in Nov 2008, my 5D2 in January, Cineform in May, and built a 12gb i7 rig in July. It all works, so I'm happy! But try the other options aout and see what you think. That's good info to post on here!
First, PaulieDC, than you very much for at least responding with something helpful. That is a lot more than I have been able to get out of anyone at Adobe directly...they decided it was better to just ignore the problem completely.
As for your solution, one question: how long do the video conversions take? On a 2GB 5D / 7D file for example? Is it doing video stream copying or actual transcoding?
Another solution I came up with was this:
I wrote a quick batch script that uses FFMPEG and simply copies the video stream and only does transcoding on the audio:
ffmpeg -i MOV4651.MOV -vcodec copy -acodec libfaac -ac 2 -ab 320k -ar 48000 -o MOV4651.mp4
This converts the mov file to an MP4 container and converts the audio to a 320kbps 48khz AAC encoded track that is embedded. I haven't figured out a way to include lossless PCM on an MP4 file at all.
The only other problem this has is that when I import the resulting .mp4 file into PPro CS4 the file is not scaled correctly. If I right click and tell it to "interpret footage" as Square Pixels 1.0 it puts it in the correct perspectve.
The process is pretty quick - about 4 minutes for a 4GB file on my system since it is only converting the audio really and is just copying the video stream to a new file.
If anyone can think of improvements for this FFMPEG option, let me know.
PaulieDC, it seems we took very similar paths! It has been an exciting year in many way photographic.
The where I heard of Twixtor from was Shane Hurlbut (his blog http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2009/11/27/navy-swimmer-pool-training-sequence-with-real-ti me-workflow/comment-page-1/#comment-400 )(check out the 1080 video linked on the page, it is very nice)
, but I can't find it to quote him, I definately heard him talking about it in some video from the 'Collision Conference' saying that it has the best algorythims around and it helps induce the 'Filmic look'. Coming from him that meant something.
As I said earlier in the thread I am most interested in producing video, and testing and trials of uncertain software gets tedious and frustrating after awhile, especially when the results don't always meet up with expectations. But I guess you are right I will have to do some try outs soon.
rmshro0, excuse my ignorance but what is ffmpeg? Is it like No Compression? Only thing that is leaping to mind (which will change as soon as I submit this) is Full Frame .
Even the servants of Fairy godpeople are to be revereed, so honoured
@Peter: FFMPEG is a command line video transcoding tool used in freeware applications like Handbrake. Basically using that line of FFMPEG you are telling the program to convert the MOV file to an MP4 file but using the same video codec/settings/etc so it does not need to do any video transcoding in the traditional sense. You are really just changing the container file of the H.264 video the 5D/7D is shooting. The only problem was with audio - i could find a way to change the container file with it and keep the lossless PCM audio codec so I had to convert it to AAC (using the "-acodec libfaac..." section of the command.
This is basically a work around for the stuttering 7D / 5D video issue and again points to this being a very easy and stupid software fix that either Adobe or Apple (but really, for the price paid for Adobe Studio CS4 they should take the time to address this) could fix. After this "container file change" the video plays back completely smooth once again. Let me reiterate: since the FFMPEG app is NOT changing the video at all (it is a bit for bit copy) there is really no reason why this should be happening with native 5D/7D files anyway.
Thanks for the explanation rmshro0, I kind of understand. I know about the container concept where one file format can hold many differently encoded video files. I also know about sound being a separate signal to the visuals etc.
As far as Adobe making PP work smoothly with a Mac standard (H.264) you will get no arguement from me, but all the large competitors in the game (Canon for example, only 30fps!!!, no manual settings, or Microsoft and Vista, the beta copy of 7 that cost money to use...) tend to live in a rarified atmosphere where they don't actually do things like normal people do, they do things that they think we should be doing, and when we don't do those things they probably blame us for being rebels. The problem I think is that the lines of communication have broken down and been replaced by marketing, and marketing scientists. A less sincere support assistant you couldn't get!
When video has the bitdepth and dynamic range of the still images the 5dmkii shoots now and the systems can play and edit the video without a stutter or lost frame, there will be a lot of very happy photographers around, and still the maketing experts will be working hard, pursuading us there is some other holy grail we can't live without. But the 5dmkii has changed the playing field for all of us, and we are all struggling to keep up with the evolution! May we meet this challenge with open hearts and a sincere intent. I think we can all do our bit to further the progress as a whole towards exciting and profound developments... Not only from the Corporate giants (though their part is not insignificant), but from our own creative vision, our own enthusiasm to tell a story, to tell people about the incredible world we live in, and the wonders of mankind who live in this world.
I am trying to insight an end to the inflamation, the ignorance that fuels flames and the frustration that ignites them! Redirect that fuel and that energy .
only a little tongue in cheek, in fact not very tongue in cheek at all.
Please know that H.264 is not a "Mac standard" in any way shape or form.
Is it the MOV container that has a Mac origin then? It must work natively on someones system cause with Vista it sure doesn't work well on PC unless played in QT which is Mac.
Clearly the complexity of the encoding in H.264 is much higher than MPEG codecs for example (getting into foggy water here for me I know lol, containers and codecs arghhh), but it seems strange that QT understands and decodes the files where as it has taken PC Media Player and so many other PC based players awhile to get up to speed if they have at all.
Woo Hoo, the conversations get fun around here, don't they??
First, rmshro0 , great explanation, and I'm going to try the script you made. NeoScene isn't the ONLY way to get smooth editing, it's just ONE way that works.
Peter, just to clarify, .MOV is a format and H.264 is a method of compression, a very good one at this point in history. But H.264 isn't Macintosh, H.264 was chosen by Apple to be used natively within QT and Final Cut, etc. Make sense? BTW, the only reason we have compression is because hardware & technology isn't capable of handling uncompressed video (yet). The data rate for uncompressed video is over 800mb per second. Whew!! That's some serious data!
Anyway, Windows 7 natively handles a wider range of video formats. I can open a raw 5D2 file in QT and Windows Media Player and they both play equally smooth now (on an i7 920 with 12GB of ram and Windows 7 64-bit that is). It's true that when you open the same raw 5D2 file in Premiere, it stutters and chokes. I don't know the "wiring diagram" under the Premiere hood, but obviously Adobe would have to leverage the same thing that QT and WMP leverage. OK, it'd be nice if Adobe did that, but to be honest, when CS4 was announced (at the same time the 5D2 was), neither Adobe nor Canon had any clue that the HD video feature would take the media world by storm like it did. Canon expected journalists and wedding shooters to "shoot some video". So why on earth would Adobe spend all the work making Pr CS4 native (at that time)? The journalists and wedding shooters could just use Elemenst or something, right? So here we are in late 2009 and the 5D2 has overtaken the indie market as well as commercial and music video shooters, and even some parts of bigger film productions. Wait until it puts out 24p next year, the game will even change more. The 5D2's huge sensor does low-light imagery that rivals the Red, and for $4000 with a 24-70mm lens, how can you beat that? OK, to sum it up, we can't get on Adobe for not including support in CS4, as you read, nobody expected all this to happen, therefore nobody expected a need in the Pro NLE to handle the newcomber 5D2. That's just how the timeline worked out (no pun intended). We can just use NeoScene or one of the other available methods like rmshro) showed us. BUT, if Adobe ignores native support in CS5, then we can all gripe. But on a bigger scale, if Adobe ignores DSLRV native support in CS5 then that's just plain stupid, a very bad business decision... if they do that then their marketing team needs to be whapped upside the head with a Nerf Bat.
You know what would be a great solution? Have Adobe subcontract Cineform to build NeoScene technology into Pr CS5, then Pr would be native and Cineform wouldn't lose business (we don't want to hurt the third party guys either...)
Good post. This right here is the key to the issue though:
I can open a raw 5D2 file in QT and Windows Media Player and they both play equally smooth now (on an i7 920 with 12GB of ram and Windows 7 64-bit that is). It's true that when you open the same raw 5D2 file in Premiere, it stutters and chokes.
To me, that is 100% Adobe's issue and asking people to buy another piece of software or even to run a custom ffmpeg script on all their files isn't an acceptable response from the provider of such "high end" editing software.
that is 100% Adobe's issue and asking people to buy another piece of software or even to run a custom ffmpeg script on all their files
Or maybe Canon (and Nikon with the D-90 + other model's MJPEG footage) should offer software to allow all NLE's to work with the footage? With the RED footage, they worked closely with Adobe to develop plug-ins for their cameras. Have not heard of either Canon, or Nikon, doing similar. They have just created the specs. for their footage, and thrown it out for the customers to figure out how to work with it.
It's the same on the still side of life. Both of those mfgr's. re-write their RAW algorithms and it's not until they are done with their development, that Adobe gets the code to write a new version of ARC.
JVC has done similar with their .MOD & .TOD formats. These folk do not seem to think that anyone would ever want to edit their cameras' footage.
At least there are methods, as PaulineDC has outlined.
Yes, Canon and Nikon have both been slow to release their inhouse recipes, and yet Canon have shown what can be done with a simple firmware update, they have demonstrated a degree of goodwill and promised more to come (even though they are still leveraging the delay in the promised next firmware). Adobe put out their own updates, I think they could show their goodwill and provide the missing functionality as an update rather than an upgrade. This is not a program change, the program stays the same, it just gets to do its current job more successfully for a large number of it's current customers. Perhaps they could communicate with Canon, but I don't see why if the H.264 compression standard is not propriotary to any of the giants, then it must be quite open source, they just need to nut it out I would think.
It was unfortunate timing, that CS4 was not able to ship with this ability, but it was not able to do other things which were fixed with updates, how about they meet up to this expectation of their paying customers
I think we are getting to the bottom of this this!
None of us here (at least the regular users) know what Adobe is working on, regarding some of the newer formats. RED was added in an update, as was Panasonic Intra. Both Canon and Nikon might be next? They may be in an update, rather than an upgrade. We just do not know.
With the growing popularity and expanding user-base of especially the Canon, I could well imagine that CS4.3 (if there is such a beast) might have it. Much will probably depend on how far along Adobe is with CS5.
Unfortunately, anyone, who knows, is probably not allowed to tell us. [Dennis, any comment possible?]
Until someone, in the know, posts to their blog-spot, we just have to guess and imagine.
And debate the morals and rationale of arguably, charging for an upgrade to something that was expected/hoped for in the previous version. Along with Adobes grasping at FCP's hold on the market, I would think that an ability to work with the media of FCP would be part of the same grasping, not a next grasp.
Perhaps they are already in discussion with somone like cineform to incorporate their package, in which case it would have to come with the upgrade rather than an update...
I would think that an ability to work with the media of FCP would be part of the same grasping, not a next grasp.
This has been mentioned and is being worked on. My guess would be that it has proved to be a bit more difficult, than anticipated. Remember, that is just a "guess."
You're right Hunt.
And while it is comercially sensitive, I suppose they are going to be less than open about their progress and their plans.
We can but hope then that they are all but finished CS4.3, and that their generous nature is willing to leave it as 4.3 and not bump it up to 5.0. Or perhaps their business sense might tell them that a good reputation with their existing customers is the most effective way of convincing new customers to leave their current package to come and invest in Adobe software!
You guys will surely want to see this. Looks like Adobe has come up with a new rendering engine:
Let's place bets on how much they are going to charge CS4 owners for this?