8 Replies Latest reply on Nov 27, 2009 7:20 AM by the_wine_snob

    Silly Question

    Mike Fizer

      Forgive my ignorance here, I'm new to video and coming from the still community. I'm shooting the 5DmII and have an simple issue that I can't seem to find an answer to. I'm taking my 5D files and running them through NeoScene for basic color/contrast corrections in Windows PE 7. I am currently not interested in building projects, but just exporting the file(s) to be edited later in Final Cut Pro. To retain as much information as possible, (archive) what format should I choose? The files are put on a portable HDD and shipped, so file size is not an issue.

       

      Many thanks in advance.

       

      Mike

       

      PS: Any links/books for education on post production for beginners would be wonderful.

        • 1. Re: Silly Question
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Mike,

           

          Welcome to the forum.

           

          I do not know NeoScene, so cannot comment there. Since you are working in MOV w/ H.264 for the HD files from the Canon, keeping the files in that format would probably be the best. I just do not know how NeoScene works, and what the file Export capabilities are. Your files are already compressed once, in the camera, so the best way to think of this that any additional compression will diminish the materal's quality. When you do just simple color correction, you have altered the material to a degree. Here comes the problem: if you use the H.264 again, you will compress again. The material will have to basically be Rendered, when you Export/Save from NeoScene. Even if it has what is called "Smart Rendering," that will be negated by having changed the footage.

           

          Here are some thoughts: the .MOV [Animation CODEC] is a good one and is good with the Mac and FCP. However, I do not know if it handles HD. I get this CODEC a lot from Mac designers, and it works fine on my PC's. It's the HD aspect that I do not know, as I work in SD only.

           

          On the PC, but again with SD material, I use the Lagarith Lossless CODEC, but I do not know how it handles HD, and worse yet, how FCP might, or might not handle it. Just do not know the Mac-side of life.

           

          I also do my color correction in either PrPro, or AfterEffects, and work back and forth via Adobe Dynamic Link, so no Rendering. Since I do not know NeoScene, there could well be a better workflow from it, maybe something that will give you uncompressed, or lightly compressed files - just do not know.

           

          I wish that I had more firm answers for you. Maybe others can fill in the blanks, as my comments are just so general.

           

          Now for the learning. Here are some resources:

           

          1.) do a Google search for "Canon 5D MK II," "Adobe Premiere," and then "Hunt." I commented in several active threads on the Canon in both the PrPro Forum, and in this one. Durning those discussions, a Community Expert, Jeff Bellune, offered some great comments. Also in some of the later threads, I posted links to some of the previous articles. Lot of great reading there. Not all of it will directly pertain to PrE, but most of the discussion was general enough, that the exact version of Pr will not matter. Happy reading.

           

          2.) Steve Grisetti has done a series of books, The Muvipix Guide to PrE 7, ... Guide to PrE 8, ... Guide to PSE 8 & PrE 8. I highly recommend these.

           

          I'll be back with a few more links in a moment,

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Silly Question
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Here's the link to the Muvipix Store.

             

            Here's a link to the PrPro-Wiki. While more specific to PrPro (PrE's big brother), there are lots of tutorials on how things are done, plus a lot of great FAQ articles. While many are specific to PrPro, many are general editing tips - one just needs to "read between the lines" a bit.

             

            I understand where you're coming from, since I spent 30 years as an advertising photographer. The one difference, probably, was that I had gotten my degree in cinematoghraphy, though that was back when video was only a direct feed to a switcher, or recorded from the studio to 2" tape - way back in time.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Silly Question
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              One additional thought, though it might be covered in some of those Canon 5D MKII threads, there are three popular H.264 CODEC's, Apple's, Lead and MainConcept. Some users report better results using either the Lead, or the MainConcept vs Apple's. Might be worth investigation.

               

              Good luck, and happy editing,

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Silly Question
                Mike Fizer Level 1

                Hunt,

                 

                Thanks for your reply and suggestions, I'll follow up on them. I came across NeoScene as a solution to some of the color issues with the 5DmII .MOV files. Apparently the color coming off that chip can get ?"clipped"? when using NLEs. NeoScene, among other things, converts the .MOV file into a larger editing space, I think an analogy would be the difference between working with an 8bit file vs. a 16bit file in Photoshop.

                 

                I'm assuming it remaps the color in this larger space, because the AVI files it creates are 2-4x the size of the original .MOV files. The very laymans test I have done, taking the original MOV and the NeoScene AVI file into PE7, has shown from subtle to substantial differences in color/contrast with the advantage going to NeoScene. Plus the AVI file edits much smoother in PE7.

                 

                The person who is receiving these files prefers the AVI files also, but there are workflow issues that I'm not capable of understanding at this point. Without going into details, I would prefer to edit these AVI files in PE7 and export/convert them into ???? , heck I don't know. There seems to be a cornucopia of choices that leave my head spinning. NeoScene for PC does not export MOV files, nor does the Mac version export AVI.

                 

                So at this point of my learning curve, I was hoping there would be an easy answer for converting to a format out of PE7 that would retain the most information and be usable in FCP.

                 

                Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving.

                 

                Mike

                 

                http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

                • 5. Re: Silly Question
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  If you plan to edit these files, you want export them with the DV codec. Doesn't matter if you export them as MOVs or AVIs with the DV codec. They're essentially the same. And they're essentially the same size: about 13 gigabytes per hour or about 250 megabytes per minute.

                   

                  There are smaller file size codecs. But, as I've said, if your end client plans to use these in an editing project, he'll want them in the DV codec.

                   

                  You can export DV-AVIs from Premiere Elements by going to Share/Personal Computer and selecting the DV-AVI option.

                  • 6. Re: Silly Question
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    There seems to be a cornucopia of choices that leave my head spinning. NeoScene for PC does not export MOV files, nor does the Mac version export AVI.

                     

                    This could be said, when everything was SD, and either Standard, or Widescreen and NTSC, or PAL. Then, when you add in PC and/or Mac, and you multiply everything x 2. With HD, things have expanded exponentially. Oh, don't forget the possibilities of FLV and a few others. Now, one probably has 2000 possible choices, plus intermediate CODEC's like Lagarith Lossless and HuffYUV. Then, factor in a few useful, but delivery-only formats, like DivX/Xvid and that number goes up again. My head has been spinning since HD first hit and it spins faster every month.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Silly Question
                      Mike Fizer Level 1

                      Steve and Hunt, thank both of you for your advice.

                       

                      Enjoy the holidays.

                      • 8. Re: Silly Question
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Mike,

                         

                        You are most welcome. Hope that your Hoiidays are excellent, as well.

                         

                        Enjoy,

                         

                        Hunt