27 Replies Latest reply on Dec 17, 2011 6:26 PM by robohobosapien

    1080p 29.97fps dropping frames

    HarpuaFSB Level 1

      Hey everyone.

       

      I can't quite figure out what it is I'm doing wrong here.

       

      I'm taking an AVCHD MTS file recorded at 1080i/30fps and converting it to 1080p/30fps with Adobe Media Encoder CS4 using the H.264 codec at 16Mbps.

       

      When I open the resulting MP4 file to edit in QT Pro or Premiere Pro CS4, I can't get it to play more than 8fps, it's dropping frames like crazy.

       

      I thought it might have been the encode, but if I upload the file to YouTube it plays just fine after processing (with the new option to choose 720p or 1080p).

       

      Previously I just converted the MTS files to 720p to upload to YouTube but now that YouTube supports 1080p, I'd like to take advantage of that but the fact that the video is so jumpy and dropping frames (not just in QT Pro, same in VLC and Adobe Premiere CS4) makes editing almost impossible.

       

      Anyone have any ideas how I can get smooth playback of 1080p content? Am I possibly doing something wrong during the encode (I don't think that's it since it plays smoothly once uploaded to YouTube)?

       

      Also, I have 1080p trailers from Apple saved that run just fine (albeit at 24fps).

       

      Thanks in advance.

       

      P.S., having this problem on two Macs of mine, specs below:
      MacBook Pro
      10.5.8
      2.4 Core 2 Duo
      2 GB RAM

       

      iMac
      10.5.8
      2.8 Core 2 Duo
      2 GB RAM

        • 1. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          When I open the resulting MP4 file to edit in QT Pro or Premiere Pro CS4

           

          Don't do that.  Edit the native 1080i media as is.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
            HarpuaFSB Level 1

            What I'm attempting to do is go AVCHD (1080i) > 1080p MP4 > Premiere Pro CS4 then edit.

             

            You're saying instead go AVCHD > CS4 > 1080p MP4?

             

            I can do that.  I read some other threads where choosing the correct sequence (1080i30p) makes the video less susceptible to chop in CS4 during editing but it still does drop frames after playing smoothly for a couple of seconds.

             

            Also doesn't solve the problem I'm having with files encoded at 1080p with Adobe Media Encoder CS4 not getting above 10 fps during playback in any media player.

             

            Any ideas on that?

             

            Thanks!

            • 3. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              You're saying instead go AVCHD > CS4 > 1080p MP4?

               

              Correct.

               

              not getting above 10 fps during playback in any media player.

               

              Any ideas on that?

               

              For Macs?  No.

              • 4. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Not enough muscle. the CPU is too slow.

                • 5. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                  HarpuaFSB Level 1

                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                   

                  Not enough muscle. the CPU is too slow.

                   

                  That's what I started to think but I have no problems playing 1080p trailers in QuickTime, VLC or Premiere (for testing purposes).

                   

                  They're encoded using the H.264 codec at 10Mbps and they play buttery smooth on both my computers which leads me to believe that the frame rate problem has something to do with Adobe Media Encoder's encode.

                  • 6. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    That's what I started to think but I have no problems playing 1080p trailers in QuickTime, VLC or Premiere (for testing purposes)

                     

                    This can easily give one a false sense of security. Playing a file is vastly different than editing that same file, even though the necessary CODEC's are installed. Players can handle the GOP structure easily. With an NLE, the GOP's are reconstructed so that everything is I-frame for the frame-by-frame editing. This is ton more work for the CPU. Depending on the actual structure, this can be 7x to 30x more work.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                      HarpuaFSB Level 1

                      the_wine_snob wrote:

                       

                      That's what I started to think but I have no problems playing 1080p trailers in QuickTime, VLC or Premiere (for testing purposes)

                       

                      This can easily give one a false sense of security. Playing a file is vastly different than editing that same file, even though the necessary CODEC's are installed. Players can handle the GOP structure easily. With an NLE, the GOP's are reconstructed so that everything is I-frame for the frame-by-frame editing. This is ton more work for the CPU. Depending on the actual structure, this can be 7x to 30x more work.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                       

                      That's good to know but I'm having this frame rate problem playing files encoded with Adobe Media Encoder in stand-alone players as well.

                      • 8. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Time to upgrade. (If you want better support than when using MAC's, switch to PC, there is more expertise around to help you).

                        • 9. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          I'm having this frame rate problem playing files encoded with Adobe Media Encoder in stand-alone players as well.

                           

                          This very often indicates a problem with the I/O sub-system, i.e. the HDD's. Often it's just the speed, how they might also be in use by the OS, or other programs at the same time, or the controller type.

                           

                          That would be the first area that I would check into. Ideally, one will have multiple HDD's of at leaset 7200RPM with a fast controller type, say SATA II, and the media will not be on the system/program HDD, or with the Page File (if Mac's have those?).

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            This very often indicates a problem with the I/O sub-system, i.e. the HDD's.

                             

                            Given the data presented so far, that is unlikely.

                            • 11. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                              HarpuaFSB Level 1

                              JSS1138 wrote:

                               

                              This very often indicates a problem with the I/O sub-system, i.e. the HDD's.

                               

                              Given the data presented so far, that is unlikely.

                               

                              Yeah, I'm at a loss here.

                               

                              I don't get how files encoded H.264 1080p 29.97fps 10Mbps such as trailers play just fine but my files encoded with the exact same specifications using Adobe Media Encoder CS4 max out at 10 fps in all the players I've tried.

                              • 12. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                What are all of your AME settings? Something is wrong, if you're getting 10 FPS.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Jim,

                                   

                                  It appears that you are correct, based on the OP's next post. I had taken the "Frame Rate" as a euphemistic "smoothness" of playback issue. I was wrong. It IS a Frame Rate issue - 10 FPS.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                    HarpuaFSB Level 1

                                    The original is a 1080i/30 MTS file, here are the settings I'm using in AME.

                                     

                                    Format: H.264

                                    No filters

                                    Multiplexing: MP4

                                    Stream compat: Standard

                                    Codec: MainConcept H.264 Video

                                    TV Standard: NTSC

                                    Frame width: 1920

                                    Frame height: 1080

                                    Frame rate: 29.97

                                    Field order: Progressive

                                    Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Pixels

                                    Profile: Main

                                    Level: 4.2

                                    Bitrate Encoding: VBR, 1 pass

                                    Target bitrate: 10

                                    Max bitrate: 16

                                    Audio: AAC, Stereo, 48 kHz, High

                                    Audio bitrate: 160

                                    Precedence: Bitrate

                                     

                                    Here is a sample encode (~38 MB 1080i/30 MTS > 1080p/30 MP4, 30 sec) if someone wants to see if they get choppy playback.

                                    http://www.mediafire.com/?iidgiigieit

                                     

                                    I can also upload the MTS file if anyone wants it.

                                    • 15. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      I'm not sure if the attached footage is that which you got 10 FPS, or not, but G-Spot shows it at 29.97 FPS.

                                       

                                      MP4_Frame_Rate.jpg

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                        HarpuaFSB Level 1

                                        Yeah, the frame rate is being encoded correctly, it's on playback in a stand-alone player that it chops and maxes out at 10 fps.

                                         

                                        We're you able to play the clip ok?

                                        • 17. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          On QT Pro 7.5.5 it was smooth. It appeared that there were cuts/stops in there, as the pup was reframed at most points, but the action between these was smooth. Now, if the camera was not stopped at any point, and this is one continuous Clip, then there were halts, though they looked more like slightly different scenes. Is the footage continuous? If so, then I see what you mean.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                            HarpuaFSB Level 1

                                            the_wine_snob wrote:

                                             

                                            On QT Pro 7.5.5 it was smooth. It appeared that there were cuts/stops in there, as the pup was reframed at most points, but the action between these was smooth. Now, if the camera was not stopped at any point, and this is one continuous Clip, then there were halts, though they looked more like slightly different scenes. Is the footage continuous? If so, then I see what you mean.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                             

                                            Yes, it's one continuous scene so you're getting the same kind of chop that I am.

                                             

                                            However, I'm not getting any chop in VLC so I think this playback issue (with 1080i MTS > 1080P MP4) is unique to QT which seems to have shoddy H.264 support according to some Googling I did.

                                            • 19. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                                              Yes, it's one continuous scene so you're getting the same kind of chop that I am

                                               

                                              If that's the case, I am definitely seeing it too. I tapped my foot to the "cuts" and they seemed to be right on the "beat," in that there seemed to be a cycle to them, and it continued through the example. That was one of the reasons that I though maybe these were cuts, they were so cyclical, that I thought that you had cut to the beat of some music, that was not included here. I have no clue what would cause something like this. See if you catch the "beat/pace" of the jumps/hangs.

                                               

                                              Also, we have completely ruled out any I/O issue, as I played from a fast, empty SATA II, with nothing else going on. Scratch one!

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                On my older Athlon, the clip played almost in slow motion with the CPU pegged.

                                                 

                                                On my newer i7, it played perfectly smooth using only about 10% of my CPU.

                                                 

                                                I'd say Harm nailed it in post 4.  Your computer is just not powerful enough to play this file.  The skipped frames are the player's attempt to keep video and sound in sync.  It just doesn't have the muscle to play all the frames, so it skips a few.

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  Jim,

                                                   

                                                  While not up to i7 standards, my Core2 Quad 2.66GHz w/ 4GB RAM and nothing else going, exhibited the playback characteristics.

                                                   

                                                  Now, I did not monitor the CPU usage.

                                                   

                                                  Just observations,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                    HarpuaFSB Level 1

                                                    I think it's a combination of a few things posted in this thread.

                                                     

                                                    I was getting the chop pretty consistently in all players I tried but I've been able to get it to play smoothly in Premiere CS4, VLC and MPlayer OS X (both the 1080i MTS file and 1080p MP4 file) intermittently which would indicate that when it does chop, it's a CPU problem.

                                                     

                                                    One thing that's been consistent is that it's always choppy in QuickTime. 

                                                     

                                                    I cannot get a video file converted with AME to play smoothly in QuickTime.

                                                    • 23. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      I cannot get a video file converted with AME to play smoothly in QuickTime.

                                                       

                                                      I do have to admit that I played it in QT Pro 7.5.5, though an nVidia GeForce 8800m GTX - 512MB card to a 1680 x 1050 32-bit color depth 17" monitor. Also, we all know how Jim feels about anything Apple...

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      I wonder what happened in his youth involving an apple?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      May be something there?

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                        I wonder what happened in his youth involving an apple?

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        If Macs used the AVI and WAV formats, could read and write to NTFS hard drives, and all program files created on a Mac were fully usable in PC applications without any conversions and without installing any Mac-centric plug-ins, I'd have no problem with them at all.

                                                         

                                                        But Macs do things differently, and those difference cause problems.  That's why I don't like them.

                                                         

                                                        Sometimes diversity is a bad thing.  (Remember Babel.)

                                                        • 25. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                          HarpuaFSB Level 1

                                                          I'm kind of surprised that QT Pro has such problems with H.264 encoded 1080p video.

                                                          • 26. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            Jim,

                                                             

                                                            Well stated.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: 1080p 29.97fps dropping frames
                                                              robohobosapien

                                                              I found this to be very helpful as I took an entire day to find out why I couldn't get my video to stop being so chopy and why it seemed that I couldn't up the frame rate. Thanks to this thread I realized it wasn't the frame rates or the bit rates I was choosing that was causing the problem. But the real reason im posting in this 2 year old thread is in case you haven't found the solution yet I found that you can play those files on QT as of now at least. You just need to change the profile choice to baseline when converting the videos.