10 Replies Latest reply on Dec 5, 2009 8:14 PM by Colin Brougham

    Aesthetics and Technology?

    Level 1

      If I wanted to have a segment of video that showed someone (protagonist) about to have a nervous breakdown I might consider that the person is having trouble with sorting out temporal experience correctly.
      In other words, maybe he doesn't know how to fit his experience of reality into the normal time frame. Action and reaction don't hold true anymore. Something seems maybe to have happened before it should have happened.
      Like he is going crazy.
      Maybe I could show this by randomizing a series of his experience while he is undergoing this horrible torment.
      Like he sees two people talking but he can't place the conversation in the correct time sequence.
      Person A answers person B's question before the question was asked.
      In response person B asks the question ....something is wrong !


      If I had film I could take this series of actions the protagonist is going to exprerience (a conversation for example)
      and cut each frame out of the strip, and mix them up and then splice the frames back into a strip.
      I would have to have some frames duplicated and some frames coherently spliced, or the audience would see nothing but a blur of nonesense.
      At 30 fps I imagine 3 frames or so of close to identical frames is necessary for the eye to register it, right?
      sooo, you couldn't just mix everything up and expect to see anything recognizable.


      So I have two questions really...
      1) Is there a way for Premiere or another program to cut every frame from a video (source) and turn them into some image file (like jpg or png?)
      2) If I then used some visual basic type program to randomize the image files into a new sequence (see below sample of simple VB program to randomize) is there some way to programmatically re-attach the png images into a video ???


      Lastly, does the idea of randomizing something like this temporal whackiness seem like a good way to show someone going nuts?








      If I wanted to cut a film strip into individual frames I would take scissors and cut each frame.


      VB Code: ---------------


      The following function will sort numbers into an array, so that each element has a different number:


      Private Sub N_Integers(N As Integer, rndlist() As Integer)
      'Randomly sorts N integers and puts results in rndlist
      Dim I As Integer, J As Integer, T As Integer
      'Order all elements initially
      For I = 1 To N
        rndlist(I) = I
      Next I
      'J is number of integers remaining
      For J = N To 2 Step -1
        I = Int(Rnd * J) + 1
        T = rndlist(J)
        rndlist(J) = rndlist(I)
        rndlist(I) = T
      Next J
      End Sub


      For example, if you set the first argument to 6, the elements of rndlist might be (starting at element 1): 2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5.


      end VB code stuff:--------------

        • 1. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
          Level 1

          Hi...After writing the previous messg I found the information about, and started reading up on, "importing image sequences"...

          Hopefully I'll find all I need to figure out how to manipulate this stuff as I imagine...

          I'm thinking of "Exporting" as "image sequence" would be more what I'm looking for but I'm reading up on stuff...

          Sorry about being so dense about this.




          • 2. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
            Level 1

            looks like FLM export might be the thing...then do a vb

            routine the randomizes 'ranges' of consecutive frame numbers. plus regular editing....

            i dont know, do you think this sort of thing would depict someone going sorta nuts ??  his POV is what this is about...


            • 3. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
              Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

              It's difficult for me to offer a suggestion without seeing the footage, context, mood of the film etc.


              You might try going to hulu.com and scan through some video to see how others have represented what you are trying to do. Take a look at "The Pretender" perhaps episode 20-23.

              • 4. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                do you think this sort of thing would depict someone going sorta nuts ?


                I think the idea is sound, but the method is not.


                Do it manually.  Be the editor and edit.  Don't give that creative control over to a random generator.

                • 5. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                  Level 1

                  Thanks you guys, good suggestions... will check out the episodes you mentioned, Chuck. Yeah, Jim,maybe random is too nonsensical...I don't know.

                  Would be cool to try maybe.

                  I made a FLM strip last night after leaving these messages. Looks kinda like a photoshop contact sheet (with a background layer). Not what I was looking for, because to extract each frame individually and giving filenames to each ( frame0001, frame0002, etc) would take forever.  I made a few (after using guides to grid out the FLM frames, and it's pretty cool but would take forever.  Plus some of the guides were like 1 pixel off (719x479)...it's hard to get right on the exact edge of the frames.  I just resized the one pixel so no big deal and I could still automate the process ....hmmm....thinking out loud.


                  "The conversation" with R Duvall and G Hackman (early Coppolla film) comes to mind when thinking about my little crazy thing ...maybe call it "The Breakdown"....

                  Go to wall street and put some guy in a suit on a bench by the Seaport Museum, with a very thick printout of Failed Trades in his hands...he starts sweating....haha...


                  I have to check out other sequence exports for animation ....thanks again for your ideas !



                  • 6. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                    fuaho Level 1

                    File\Export\Media\Format\Tiff or Targa

                    • 7. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                      Level 1

                      Thanks !  Just did that about 30 mins ago...

                      how cool is THAT !  This program is the greatest.


                      Oddly enough the TGA format I exported to reminded me of a morph program I had years ago, where you used 2 TGA files and a matrix to make a Morph video, so I looked to see if any morph programs are around that use a series of TGA images but didn't find any...

                      I guess my point is that everytime I do something with this program it seems to lead in all kinds of cool directions.


                      Anyway, I can randomize the filenames as ranges I think, see what I come up with. I'm leaning toward maybe that would be the extreme culmination of this guy going nuts.



                      • 8. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                        Colin Brougham Level 6



                        Try randomizing the filenames as I outlined here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2439811#2439811


                        Might save you some time!

                        • 9. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                          Level 1

                          COLIN !  WOW...that's exactly what I need !  I downloaded the program and it looks perfect.  Thanks

                          a lot !!!!


                          I have to re-export the TGA sequence cause I already deleted the 60000 frames I made (just kidding, not THAT many...)


                          I'm ready to try it out though, thanks a lot




                          ps. I just did my first cross dissolve and title frame and end credit frame and music soundtrack ..what a fantastic program !


                          you guys in this forum are great. thanks ....

                          • 10. Re: Aesthetics and Technology?
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            Cool! Have fun...