11 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2009 3:08 PM by David Wigforss-Hv1BNN

    Touch up rotoscoped footage

    HarryPutnam Level 1

      I've been rootscoping my great grandson out of some footage to save for use in other skits, like him stomping around in downtown chicago or whatever. (Hopefully I'll eventually think of something more worthwhile ...hehe)

       

      Needless to say its been a tedious several days now.   But lots of good experience for a first time rotoscoper.

       

      Now I finally have a semi-decent masked off bit of footage.  However there are 28 frames from where his mom is helping him get steadied up for that giant first walk across the floor, where her hand is in the shot.  (See the attached image).

       

      There is footage further along where I could steal shots of his shirt to cover that hand.  However I'm not real sure how to proceed.

       

      I wondered if exporting those frames as an image sequence or what ever format photoshop will accept, and then doing the work in photoshop might be a way to go, I'm much more familier from fixing beat up pictures and such in photoshop with techniqes inside PS, cloning healing or whatever.

       

      But not quite sure how to proceed.  Like, do the work on each of 28 frames then import them back into AE and plop the sequence over that portion of the rotoscoped footage trying to get the timing right for when the transition from repared frames to the original rotoscoped stuff tanspires.

       

      Or try to insert some of the babies shirt into the footage (all in AE)... how do experienced people go at something like this?

       

      Hand2.png

        • 1. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          If it were me, I'd just start the clip once the hands went away.

          • 2. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
            HarryPutnam Level 1

            JSS1138 wrote:

             

            If it were me, I'd just start the clip once the hands went away.

            Ahhh yeah, thanks for the really helpful tip there pardner.  But just off the top of my head... do you really think I didn't WANT to do that very thing?

             

            Just for your information... it is not a crime or sin to just simply hold your tongue if you don't really have something to add.  Just for future reference you know in case you weren't aware of it.

            • 3. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

              For such cases, my prefereed way of working is to find a suitable segment from another time and mask out the offending item conventionally. I then simply put the replacement patch under the "hole", scale, move and rotate it into place, then cut off the excess using masks on that layer as well. With slightly feathered edges, a bit of color correction and grain/ noise matching, this usually works well enough. Compared to using clone brushes (in any program) it also has the advantage of flickering a lot less and not introducing visible repeated structures (you know, like people with sun specks suddenly having the same speck twice and similar weird scenarios). I would try that. Of course, 28 frames is not that much, so painting might still work, but I'd do it in AE, so you get a better feel for how it looks when it moves.

               

              Mylenium

              • 4. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                HarryPutnam Level 1

                Mylenium wrote:

                 

                For such cases, my prefereed way of working is to find a suitable segment from another time and mask out the offending item conventionally. I then simply put the replacement patch under the "hole", scale, move and rotate it into place, then cut off the excess using masks on that layer as well. With slightly feathered edges, a bit of color correction and grain/ noise matching, this usually works well enough. Compared to using clone brushes (in any program) it also has the advantage of flickering a lot less and not introducing visible repeated structures (you know, like people with sun specks suddenly having the same speck twice and similar weird scenarios). I would try that. Of course, 28 frames is not that much, so painting might still work, but I'd do it in AE, so you get a better feel for how it looks when it moves.

                 

                Mylenium

                Sorry if the answer is obvious and I'm too dense to see it, but are you talking about using a still as `patch' or other moving footage?

                 

                I tried using other moving footage at least similar to how you suggest, that is, putting the other footage under the `whole'  The footage is just the same shirt, further along in the same clip.   But I needed to move the footage around after a couple frames to keep the `whole' covered.  The end result appears really phony looking with the back ground `patch' not moving in chorus with the rest

                 

                I didn't mask out the patch as you suggest... I just stuck a copy of the same clip starting at a different frame below the working clip and then moved it around with position controls to keep a piece of yellow shirt under the whole.  Man it really looks terrible ... hehe.

                 

                So, I'm pretty sure that isn't what you are talking about..

                • 5. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  do you really think I didn't WANT to do that very thing?

                   

                  How the hell am I supposed to know?  You'd be surprised how often the simple answer is completely overlooked as the OP responds with a Homerian "DOH!" .  You made no mention of doing what I suggested, it will work, so I suggested it.

                   

                  it is not a crime or sin to just simply hold your tongue if you don't really have something to add.


                  Goes both ways.  You are under no obligation to use (or comment on) any suggestion you don't like.

                  • 6. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                    HarryPutnam Level 1

                    JSS1138 wrote:

                     

                    do you really think I didn't WANT to do that very thing?

                     

                    How the hell am I supposed to know?  You'd be surprised how often the simple answer is completely overlooked as the OP responds with a Homerian "DOH!" .  You made no mention of doing what I suggested, it will work, so I suggested it.

                     

                    it is not a crime or sin to just simply hold your tongue if you don't really have something to add.


                    Goes both ways.  You are under no obligation to use (or comment on) any suggestion you don't like.

                    Well, no... its not quite so innocent as all that.  Lame responses that do not even attempt to answer a question often have the side affect of derailing getting some real input.  My question was how to do something... your response was how NOT to do something.  And that question holds even if it is possible to avoid doing that something.

                     

                    And again if your input is not on the subject and likely to not only be useless but likely to be detrimental to getting some real input then it needs to be kept to yourself...

                     

                    Fortunately for me Mylenium (who seems to be a stalwart trooper here) paid no attention to your non-sense.

                    • 7. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      Harry, I can see that Jim was just trying to be helpful. I, too, answer questions quite often by stepping back and suggesting that a specific task might not be worth it, given the effort. (For example, I often answer questions about simulating fire with particle effects by telling people that they're better off getting stock footage of real fire.)

                       

                      Please, let's give each other the benefit of the doubt. We're all here to try to get some work done.

                      • 8. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                        Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                        Sorry if the answer is obvious and I'm too dense to see it, but are you talking about using a still as `patch' or other moving footage?

                         

                        Depends on what you have. The key point is realyl to match the "texture" of the two. Of course it may still not be possible to do it that way. In your case probably the problem is that the actual area the little toddler takes up compared to the rest of the frame is small, so you have only limited pixels. but don't let this discourage you. Perhaps you can artificially match the color with gradients and fills? On thing you might try is to create a small solid on top that has a suitable gradient (whose color stops you also can animate, if need be) and then you use Bezier Warp, Mesh Warp and Luiquify to move it into place.... As they say: A million ways to skin the cat.

                         

                        Mylenium

                        • 9. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                          David Wigforss-Hv1BNN Level 2

                          For 28 frames on that small of an area, I'd paint it in PS.

                           

                          Or you might want to distort a still of footage from later on (bezier/mesh warp/liquify), and then maybe export to PS (as layers)

                          for further touchup.

                           

                          If you can't get it to look good, then you can redo to your heart's content.  Or cut 1 sec of footage.

                          • 10. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                            HarryPutnam Level 1

                            David Wigforss wrote:

                             

                            For 28 frames on that small of an area, I'd paint it in PS.

                             

                            Or you might want to distort a still of footage from later on (bezier/mesh warp/liquify), and then maybe export to PS (as layers)

                            for further touchup.

                             

                            If you can't get it to look good, then you can redo to your heart's content.  Or cut 1 sec of footage.

                            Thanks, my first thought was paint in PS too, but when I tried it.. it seemed like a lot of pit a pat back and forth.

                             

                            Of course the way I actually ended up doing it (all  in AE but did distort a still of the same shirt from further along)  I did it with just rotation and

                            color matching and scaling the still up seemed to help the look.  Then time tracked that layer to the video   I ended up doing the time track frame by frame by hand too... the analysis was too shakey.

                             

                            It was a lot of huffing and puffing but I learned quite a bit there.  I'd never done timetracking or much work with masks.   I must admit though that the result was less than steller.

                             

                            I had so many maskes going.. and it seemed like I kept nudging the mask baring solid layer and not realizing it.

                             

                            I'm still working on the final skit from a number of pieces... and having lots of fun... but also spending really massive amounts of time.

                             

                            I may try your advice as an experiment with the bezier/mesh/ and distortion tools you mentioned... just to see if it works better than the amatuer looking mess I created... hehe..

                            • 11. Re: Touch up rotoscoped footage
                              David Wigforss-Hv1BNN Level 2

                              I'd track that by hand, especially since it's only 28 frames.  When I manually track, I create a null and scale and rotate it so that it would reach both of my track target points.  Then I animate the position of the null for all frames (make sure to enable animation on pos).  Then I go back and do the scale and rotation for all the frames.  I find it's quite fast, and often more accurate than tracking hard-to-track footage.

                               

                              Then parent your footage to the null.

                               

                              PS.  FYI, when tracking (with AE's tracker), always target a null and parent your footage to the null.