16 Replies Latest reply on Dec 13, 2009 4:13 PM by the_wine_snob

    Import VOB or AVI?

    newtoedit

      Question:  I have a bunch of old video tapes (Hi8 and  VHS) that I am converting over to a digital format for archiving.  I will want  to edit some of them at a later time. 
      What format should I be importing them in, I have two  options:  VOB or AVI.
      What is the better quality format and baseline to edit  from?  What is the difference between VOB and AVI?
      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
          nealeh Level 5

          DV-AVI Type 2 is the recommended format for files intended to be used in PRE. VOB are compressed data most usually scene on DVDs.

           

          I initially had imported my VHS/8mm in MPG  but after discovering this DV-AVI format from the many skilled and experienced users on this forum I redid them all. Fortunately my PRE7 had crashed after an nvidia update (the event that introduced me to this forum) so I only had about seven tapes to redo.

           

          Cheers,
          --
          Neale
          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          • 2. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            I agree with Neale -- with an emphasis on the "DV" of DV-AVI.

             

            Remember that there are thousands of possible codecs that can produce an AVI. And, particularly if you're using an under-$100 digitizing device or a "capture card" (rather than a DV bridge, as we describe in our FAQs), you'll want to make sure that it's producing DV-AVIs and not some other, potentially problematic codec.

             

            The test is to try one of those AVIs out in Premiere Elements. If, when you place the clip on the timeline there is no red or green render line above it, you've got a winner. Otherwise, you've got some potential issues.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
              newtoedit Level 1

              Is the quality of DV-AVI over VOB really that noticeable?

               

              When I started this I went out and bought Pinnacle Dazzle Video Creator Plus and captured a few vids and tried it out (these were not in DV format) - S-Video Connection.

               

              I then captured some video via my DVD recorder - S-Video Connection.

               

              I compared the two and the DVD Recorder came out slightly better and the sound was ALOT better.

               

              So with that said you guys are recommending a "Bridge".  Is a Bridge going to give me a better quality file then the Dazzle capturing device and better then the DVD recorder?  If so why?  (I just want to understand)

              • 4. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Go to my notes page http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith/ADOBE.HTM and click the link about editing compressed files

                 

                There are very good technical reasons why EDITING a VOB is not as good as DV AVI type 2 with 16bit 48khz sound

                 

                VIEWING a VOB (which is simply a renamed MPEG2) is very much not the same as trying to EDIT such a file

                 

                Also

                Old forum message, message now gone, but here's the summary - I have not used, only made note of the product "Matt with Grass Valley Canopus in their tech support department stated that the 110 will suffice for most hobbyist. If a person has a lot of tapes that were played often the tape stretches and the magnetic coding diminishes. If your goal is to encode tapes in good shape buy the 110, if you will be encoding old tapes of poor quality buy the 300"

                 

                http://www.grassvalley.com/products/advc110 for good tapes, or
                http://www.grassvalley.com/products/advc300 better with OLD tapes

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                  newtoedit Level 1

                  Thank you - good info.  You have made it clear DV-AVI is the way to go.

                   

                  So next question, will I get a better baseline file from a "Bridge" device or if my Pinnacle Dazzle will capture a DV-AVI will that suffice.  Bottom line, is a DV-AVI file a DV-AVI or does the capturing device play into the quality?

                   

                  The links for Grass Valley are broken due to website redesign.

                  • 6. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    The real argument for DV-AVI is not about quality. It's about the fact that it so perfectly fits the workflow of Premiere Elements.

                     

                    If your Dazzle produces DV-AVIs, you're all set .(Some older models do; most -- particularly those that connect to your computer by USB rather than FireWire -- do not, and are designed to work only with the program that comes with it.) But, as I said above, do give it a test drive first. Put one of the AVIs on your timeline and ensure there is no red or green line above it. This will indicate that it is a perfect fit for the program's workflow.

                     

                    The FAQs, as I said, to the right of this forum offer more information on DV bridges and why DV-AVIs are your best source video.

                    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/431853?tstart=0

                     

                    My books also go into much more detail on creating an efficient, problem-free workflow.

                    • 7. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                      nealeh Level 5

                      newtoedit wrote:

                       

                      Thank you - good info.  You have made it clear DV-AVI is the way to go.

                       

                      So next question, will I get a better baseline file from a "Bridge" device or if my Pinnacle Dazzle will capture a DV-AVI will that suffice.

                      "I have a bunch of old video tapes (Hi8 and  VHS) that I am converting over to a digital format for archiving." is what you said above.

                       

                      So this becomes a question of budget. If you want top notch quality those bridge devices are a good investment. But if, like me, you just want to get the memories transferred to a digital medium the Pinnacle solution is probably up to the job - bottom line is burn one and see what you think of the finished quality. For me the memory is more important than the quality - some of my 'best' photography for memories comes from my faded and beer stained 1970's monochrome polaroids.

                       

                      For the VHS & films I use Magix 'Rescue your Vidiotapes' (pretty much the Magix equivalent of your Pinnacle). This comes with a USB video converter and the 'Magix Movies on DVD' software. I've been pleasantly surprised by the good results it produces for me. The software allows conversion using a Magix high quality proprietary format. Once on the timeline I split the scenes manually and do basic colour correction (easier than in PRE7). Once that's done I batch export to DV-AVI Type 2 for further processing in PRE. Note - the batch export automatically creates a separate DV-AVI for each scene - so no having to manually select in and out points for export.

                       

                      I have downloaded a demo of Neat Video, which is video noise reduction software, but not yet tried it out.

                       

                      Cheers,
                      --
                      Neale
                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                      • 8. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                        I have downloaded a demo of Neat Video, which is video noise reduction software, but not yet tried it out.

                         

                        I use Neat Video for all sorts of video noise situations, and highly recommend it. There is great power, and also great control - however, one must look closely at the results of those controls.

                         

                        I find that a tiny amount of Unsharp Mask, after Neat Video, is about perfect. Note that Render/Export times will go up, but the result is worth it to me.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          >The links for Grass Valley are broken due to website redesign

                           

                          No... the Jive software that runs the forum added my text to the end of the links to make bad links

                           

                          Copy/paste the links thru the unbroken part... ignoring the space and then the text I added

                           

                          Stupid Jive software!!!

                          • 10. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            John,

                             

                            Sounds like you've been "Jived" again. Here is the LINK.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                              nealeh Level 5

                              These links should work:

                               

                              ADVC110

                              ADVC300

                               

                              Cheers,
                              --
                              Neale
                              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                              • 12. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Depending on the definition of "a bunch," I'd strongly consider the 300. One of the nice things about it is the amount of timebase corrections that it can offer. That alone will likely save many hours of work. It does not take too long to justify the difference in the price.

                                 

                                I'm upgrading from my Turtle Beach card, which has served me well for conversion of many VHS tapes, to the ADVC-300, just because of the additional capabilities that it offers.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                                  nealeh Level 5

                                  the_wine_snob wrote:

                                   

                                  I use Neat Video for all sorts of video noise situations, and highly recommend it. There is great power, and also great control - however, one must look closely at the results of those controls.

                                   

                                  I find that a tiny amount of Unsharp Mask, after Neat Video, is about perfect. Note that Render/Export times will go up, but the result is worth it to me.

                                   

                                  Hmm. I tried it out this weekend. It took two hours to render a twenty minute segment after applying the Neat Video noise reduction and I didn't really see much improvement.

                                   

                                  With those kind of times it's not a task that makes trial and error adjustments to the Neat setup practical for me (it's a hobby not my living). A shame really as the publicity photos on their website seem to show really dramatic improvements.

                                   

                                  Cheers,
                                  --
                                  Neale
                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                  • 14. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Neale,

                                     

                                    Was this for HD footage?

                                     

                                    Last time that I used it extensively, I had a 2 hour Sequence Timeline (like the Timeline in a PrE Project), and had a ton of other Effects: Levels, Shadow & Highlight, Fast Color Corrector, Neat Video and Unsharp Mask. That took about 3.5 hours to Export to DV-AVI Type II. This was on my workstation with dual Xeon 3.2GHz, 4GB RAM (+3GB switch), XP-Pro SP2 (then) and 6x SATA II 1TB HDD's (no RAID), on PrPro 2.0. Your time seems horrible and I understand why you would be disappointed. Now, for the results, they were great in my case. This was a lot of badly underexposed VHS, shot in LP mode, so the video noise was intense. It was captured to DV-AVI Type II It took some experimenting to get my settings down in Neat Video, but I was able to Save those, and use them for 4 other similar tapes. The Unsharp Mask brought back a touch of "zing" to the footage, and it looked like a VHS captured with medium to good lighting in SP mode. I was very pleased, and the client was astounded at the results.

                                     

                                    Sorry that Neat Video did not work out so well for you.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                                      nealeh Level 5

                                      the_wine_snob wrote:

                                       

                                      Neale,

                                       

                                      Was this for HD footage?

                                      No. standard 4:3 PAL 25fps. Two DV-AVI II clips (one 20" and the other 10"). Source files on a different physical drive to the target drive, 200GB+ free space on each drive. All non-essential processes and applications closed before rendering. Perhaps my sample frame was inadequate - I'll work through the test- kit and see how long that takes.

                                      the_wine_snob wrote:

                                      Last time that I used it extensively, I had a 2 hour Sequence Timeline .....  That took about 3.5 hours to Export to DV-AVI Type II. .... Your time seems horrible and I understand why you would be disappointed.

                                      I could live with a 2:1 rendering ratio but 6:1 is too much.

                                       

                                      Cheers,
                                      --
                                      Neale
                                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                      • 16. Re: Import VOB or AVI?
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Neale,

                                         

                                        If you will remind me, I'll be glad to do a test. I'm working on three bigger Projects right now, but will gladly pull, say a 10' Sequence, and just add Neat Video. I'll Export it both ways - with and without, and give you some sort of benchmark. Obviously, this will be NTSC 29.97 fps footage, but that should not make any difference. Give me a bit, and then ring my bell, if I have not furnished the exact times. For my previously referenced comments, I was guessing a bit, based on what I remembered. I did not have the stopwatch going.

                                         

                                        Hunt