9 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2009 7:54 AM by stoffe w

    Color management question

    stoffe w

      Hello I have a question....


      I am working on a commercial wich is going to be broadcasted on tv and the source material i recieved is a

      interlaced (UFF) QT Pal 1024 576 uncompressed YUV 10 bit 4.2.2 movie.

      Is it a good idea to use some of the presets in "workingspace" or should i leave theese settings alone?


      A comercial i did a couple a weeks ago looked quite dark and with to much  "contrast" when  i saw it on tv but my mpeg master looked fine on my computer and on that one i did´nt use any color management.


      I really don´t know which way to go so i could really need your help.



        • 1. Re: Color management question
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          Well, the issue with the all too contrasty clip could have been caused by wrong import settings on the playout server/ edit suite just as well. So it mustn't be your fault at all. The question also is, how your environment is set up. Color management is of no use, when you can't be sure that the profiled colors are displayed on a calibrated monitor, if you get my meaning. That aside, working space profiles mostly only have relevance when working with mixed sources since they affect how different pixel values are mixed. That would also require you to also assign proper color profiles to the imported clips to give AE that info. For most other things, simply using a preview profile of the target device in the composition should sufficiently do the trick while allowing AE do stay in its native sRGB color space.



          • 2. Re: Color management question
            stoffe w Level 1

            Ok thanks for your answer!


            If he importsettings are wrong on the tv stations playoutserver is it anything i can do so this dosent happen again?


            I rendered the finished spot as a QT animation with fieldrender set to upper and then compressed it to mpeg 2 with telestream episode

            That mpeg master was then sent to the tv stations thru a company called Adtoox. They test the material and transfers it to the tv stations.


            How do i apply a preview profile in the composition?



            • 3. Re: Color management question
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

              How do i apply a preview profile in the composition?


              View --> Simulate Output. The rest is a bit unclear. The service provider certainly merely checks the technical quality, e.g. stream bitrates and color levels, but naturally they have no clue about how you intended colors to look in the first place. I doubt you could blame them, as the workflow you describe would also preclude any intern flipping a wrong switch. This would also extend to the TV station since they'd use the same data. That leaves the most likely cause, that your computer really is so far off in its color representation that calibration is required. It's jsut hard to tell with reference images. what you should definitely check, is how the source footage, your uncompressed clip and the converted MPEG file look inside and outside AE, with color profiles on and off. There should be notable differences without color profile usage and if your monitor is not calibrated, those would again be different from what you see in AE. In a calibrated environment those would be less prominent or disappear entirely.



              • 4. Re: Color management question
                stoffe w Level 1

                i found simulation output but i am unshure on how you meen that i should do.

                I need to select a workingspace  before i can click on output simulation, how do i know wich one to use?

                And wich output simulation should i use?hmm this is quite confusing but its maybe really simple....


                Can i see if something is wrong with the colors this way? and could the colors be the cause of the dark and contrasty look on the tv?

                The finished file looks great on every computermonitor i have tested with but not when it is broadcasted.


                I maybee need to buy a referensmonitor, i now i have a lcd full hd tv wich is connected thru component out from a Blackmagic intensity pro.

                But when i ugraded to cs4 i dont get a signal out thru my intensity card aymore.

                Do i need to get a new monitor solution or is it someway of dealing with this anyway?


                Thanks for all help



                • 5. Re: Color management question
                  Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                  The worksapce should be left at the default sRGB profile, if no otehr calibrated profile is present. Then you simply assign the ITU 601/ PAL profile to simulate the output. Todd has some pretty comprehensive PDFs on that which should be linked from the online help, so check the respective chapters. Regarding calibration - all you need is a calibration device like a Spyder, Colormunki, EyeOne or similar. Since you are only interested in monitor calibration, their simplest models would do (about 150 Euros). You just place them on your monitor, then run their test program and based on that the apps will generate a monitor color profile. This usually sufficiently does the trick - once the monitor correctly represents a neutral sRGB image, output simulation would also correctly represent the broadcast colors.



                  • 6. Re: Color management question
                    Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                    Mylenium's probably referring to the resources that I point to from the "Online resources about color management" section.

                    • 7. Re: Color management question
                      stoffe w Level 1

                      Thanks alot for your answers, i will read the pdf.s tonight and hopfully the fog will clear!!


                      The original footage i recieved was a already edited dvd trailer and i made the adaptations with new graphics and text , just cheked the videolevels so that they stayed under 235 i am begining to think that i should have checked the colors as well.


                      I cheked the same material today with the demo of colorfinesse and didnt saw any colors outside legal but obviously something is wrong.

                      Could it be the colors anyway?


                      I also cheked the new material i just got and found some places where the red chanel was outside legal area. should i go thru every clip and correct the colors clip by clip? and then correct the grapics?


                      I dont want to see the same results in this new commercial so i am glad for all the help i can get.




                      By the way i heard somewhere that colorfinesse was included when i bought cs4 is that the case or should i buy a new licens?

                      • 8. Re: Color management question
                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                        > i heard somewhere that colorfinesse was included when i bought cs4 is that the case or should i buy a new licens?


                        Yes, Color Finesse is included with After Effects. See "Color correction and adjustment".

                        • 9. Re: Color management question
                          stoffe w Level 1

                          Thanks alot!!

                          This is a confusing and kind of hard subject!!

                          I have done some testing with workingspace and colormanagement but still dont really get it..hmm(i need to reed more about it)


                          If i understand things right then a to saturated image will look bad on a tv and i could get the results that i saw on my spot..Will it look good if i make shure its in the safe areas and not to saturated?

                          I am cheking it with colorfinessse and it seems like a great plug to work with.


                          I somewhere saw a suggestion to reduce master saturation by -8 but it seems wrong to reduce everything when maybe just some colors are to saturated.