9 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2009 6:33 AM by BevanShaw1

    Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly

    BevanShaw

      I am a keen user of keyboard shortcuts.

      In Premiere Pro 1.5, I use the shuttle keyboard shortcuts (J, K and L) along with the step fwd/back shortcuts (right/left arrow) to scan clips in the timeline. I like the way the J and L keys provide consistency when scanning - regardless of the timeline zoom factor.

      However since upgrading to Pr CS4, I've been frustrated by stuttering/jerkiness in the ProgramMonitor for between 2 and 5 seconds each time L (or J) is pressed beyond normal speed. After the 2-5sec stutter, smooth scanning resumes. The stuttering makes the keyboard shortcuts useless for fine-detail scanning.

      Interestingly, scanning the timeline by dragging the PlayHead/CurrentTimeIndicator using the mouse doesn't cause the stuttering at all.

      I've searched Premiere Pro Help, other forums and this Premiere Pro forum for threads relating to "jerky preview" and only found one which made some reference to using the keyboard shortcuts.

       

      (#5 under thread "Big Problem With New PC Vista & CS4")

      Francis Breen wrote...

      ...The only problem I seem to be having with my system is with Premiere CS4 when I fast forward from the keyboard.

      When I use the JKL keys to fast forward the action on the screen gets jerky immediately.

      When I use the Shuttle button to fast forward the action is a lot smoother.

      This is very annoying for me because I like to use the keyboard for fast forwarding...

       

      It seems to be the same issue that I am having, but that thread didn't go any further along that path - so I haven't found an answer.

       

      I run Premiere Pro CS4 on a PC which meets the recommended specifications. I've got multiple disks with plenty of space.

      The CPU never goes above about 40% when shuttling using the keyboard shortcuts, but it does go up to 80-90% when I drag he PlayHead/CurrentTimeIndicator using the mouse. That's the only difference that I've seen between keyboard and mouse shuttling.

       

      I haven't experienced any problems with video formats or codecs. The exported video always renders successfully in MediaEncoder.

      Everything is fine except for this scanning problem. Rendering previews makes no difference. And the same problem occurs when I use the SourceMonitor.

       

      What am I doing wrong? Is there some setting that I need to change?

      Or does Pr CS4 just not handle the shuttle keyboard shortcuts very well?

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

        • 1. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          No problem on my system with HDV or XDCAM. I can only think it must your system, care to give us the specs, hardware, version and source material and further relevant info?

          • 2. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
            BevanShaw1

            Thanks for responding Harm.

            I agree, it has to be my set-up. I can't imagine Adobe getting it wrong on something so basic.

            But my set-up couldn't be too far off the mark, because the fastfwd/fastrewind shuttle works fine when I drag the PlayHead/CurrentTimeIndicator with my mouse.

            I wouldn't expect the mouse shuttle to perform differently to the keyboard shuttle. Would you agree?

            Can you offer any suggestions as to why they might be different?

             

            Responding to your questions...

            The particular file I'm currently using is a small video clip that goes for 1 minute 18 seconds.

            It's not HighDef.

            It's the only clip I have in the project and timeline.

            I understand that it's DV format, PAL at 25 fps.

            The Sequence it's in is: ScreenShot037.jpg

             

            System and software specs:

            ScreenShot035.jpgScreenShot036.jpg

            Dedicated Video HDD = Western Digital 1TB spinning at 7200, SATA, 70% freespace, defragmented.

            Quicktime 7.5.5 (249.13)

            Graphics card is supposed to support OpenGL 2.0.

            ATI Catalyst info shows OpenGL Version 6.14.10.5646

             

            Video clip specs (using GSpot):

            --- File Information ---                                                       
            File Name:                                      MB1-Gold.avi                    
            File Name (with full path):                     M:\Bball2008-Editing\MB1-Gold.avi          
            File Size (in bytes):                           296,332,616                    
                                                                                           
            --- Container Information ---                                                  
            Base Type (e.g "AVI"):                          AVI(.AVI)                
            Subtype (e.g "OpenDML"):                        AVI v1.0,                  
            Interleave (in ms):                                      
            Preload (in ms):                                      
            Audio alignment("split across interleaves"):            
            Total System Bitrate (kbps):                    0           
            Bytes Missing (if any):                         0           
            Number of Audio Streams:                        1      
                                                                                           
            --- Video Information ---                                                      
            Video Codec Type(e.g. "DIV3"):                  dvsd             
            Video Codec Name(e.g. "DivX 3, Low-Motion"):    DVC/DV Video             
            Video Codec Status(e.g. "Codec Is Installed"):  Codec(s) are Installed           
            Duration (hh:mm:ss):                            1:18.120               
            Frame Count:                                    1953            
            Frame Width (pixels):                           720                 
            Frame Height (pixels):                          576                 
            Storage Aspect Ratio("SAR")"                    1.250                    
            Pixel Aspect Ratio ("PAR"):                     1.422                    
            Display Aspect Ratio ("DAR"):                   1.778                    
            Fields Per Second:                              50.000         
            Frames Per Second:                              25.000         
            Pics Per Second:                                25.000           
            Video Bitrate (kbps):                           28800               

            • 3. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
              pegase70

              Sorry !

               

              I've made a wrong assumption on your video clip format.

               

              Pierre.

              • 4. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                There is something weird with this AVI. First the audio is 32 KHz where one would expect 48 KHz. Second, it is a DV AVI type1 and PR works much better with DV AVI type2. Third, the average data rate and the total file size are both lower than expected.

                 

                Can you run GSpot on your AVI file and post the screenshot?

                • 5. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                  BevanShaw1 Level 1

                  Harm, Thanks for the prompt responses.

                   

                  I think the video clip is OK.

                  It's the Sequence in Pr that has audio at 32KHz. Making the Sequence 48KHz makes no difference to the shuttle behaviour.

                  The clip itself has audio at 48KHz.

                  The Base Type of the clip is AVI Type 2 but the GSpot text doesn't show this, it only shows AVI(.AVI).

                  You'll see that the screen shot shows DV Type 2 AVI.

                  The subtype is AVI v1.0.

                  The file size is comparable with what I've been seeing for all my clips. This clip is DV 720x526, 25fps for 78 seconds.

                  Bit rate is something that I've not really paid much attention to. I recall my MPEGs running a bit rate of around 8Mbps.

                  I'd expect the DV bit rate to be much higher, so 28Mbps did not seem out of the question.

                   

                  GSpot screen shot...

                  ScreenShot041.jpg

                  I still can't see why the mouse shuttle would perform differently to the keyboard shuttle.

                  Any further thoughts?

                  • 6. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    You are correct, the video looks OK. But since your sequence is setup differently, it may help to create a new sequence with 48 KHz audio and import your clip into the new sequence. You do have indexing and compression turned off on all your disks, right?

                     

                    Some suggestions

                     

                    Within this link go to the second link and read carefully. It contains instrucions on Process Explorer and DXDIAG. If you can post this requested info, I can have a further look.

                    • 7. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                      BevanShaw1 Level 1

                      Harm, thanks for the sequence suggestion. So I tried many combinations and the fastfwd shuttling behaved the same in all cases - ie. stuttering or jerky preview video for 2-5 seconds (sometimes longer) before running smoothly.

                      I also tried a suggestion from Francis Breen but found that the ShuttleSlider had the same problem as the JKL keys. The JogDisk was pretty smooth.

                       

                      Re compression and indexing - they have always been turned off - I've seen this written up in other posts and should've mentioned it first up.

                       

                      I've seen Jeff Bellune's post that saying that the playback engine is different between Pr 6.5 and Pr CS4 - going from DirectX to Adobe's own internal playback engine. Is it likely that my PC set-up isn't correct for shuttling using Adobe's playback engine, but is OK for a DirectX playback engine? If so, any suggestions of what settings or drivers or codecs I might need to get it right.

                       

                      I also looked a little further into the Radeon 9550 graphics card and OpenGL2.0. It appears that although independent reviews indicate support for OpenGL2.0 the specs say just OpenGL.

                      The ATi Radeon 9550 webpage http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9550/specs.html indicated:

                           "Complete feature set also supported in OpenGL® via extensions".

                      On the Gigabyte site the specs said:

                           "Microsoft DirectX® 9.0 and OpenGL® support", and

                           "OpenGL® Optimizations and Support Ensure top-notch compatibility and performance for all OpenGL 1.5 applications".

                      So maybe a Radeon 9550 limitiation with OpenGL2.0 somehow comes into play when shuttling using the Keyboard and ShuttleSlider. I'll see if I can borrow a confirmed OpenGL2.0 graphics card to test the theory out.

                       

                      In the meantime, I've attached the ProcessExplorer screen shot you pointed me to. Interesting stuff. I'd never seen the ProcessExplorer before - seems much more informative than the Ctrl-Alt-Del Windows Task Manager.

                      And the DxDiag file is attached also.

                       

                      So I've got two leads:

                      1. Settings, drivers, codecs for DirectX v Adobe's internal playback engine.

                      2. OpenGL2.0 on Radeon 9550 graphics card.

                      Plus whatever you find in the analytics.

                      Any suggestions most welcome.

                      Cheers.

                      • 8. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        First of all, both your video and your audio drivers are very old, 2006 and 2003 respectively. I would update these first. Then you can try to move your pagefile to your fastest drive. Use HDTach to find out which one that is, because I do not know whether that is the WD or the raid1, because of the controller used. Use a fixed pagefile of around 6 GB (min=max size). From the looks of it, you have installed one or more codec packs, Matroska, Haali, BDA, etc. I would remove as many as possible. Disable/kill DKService, Fine Print, Outlook and ActiveSync. Use Kill Process tree to achieve that. Alternatively you can use suspend to more easily enable them later, instead of restarting.

                         

                        I hope one of the suggestions helps.

                        • 9. Re: Keyboard shuttle forward stutters for 2-5 seconds before continuing smoothly
                          BevanShaw1 Level 1

                          I'm back again. Sorry, busy with Christmas and all.

                          Anyway, I've updated my video and audio drivers, and moved the pagefile to the fastest Drive (G: drive on raid1). HDTach seems like a great little tool.

                          My system wouldn't let my pagefile go beyond 4096M so I set it to that.

                          I got rid of BDA and Matroska codecs - or at least the one I could find in G Spot. Haali codecs were flagged as file not found - couldn't do anything with those in G Spot. GSpot shows Video codec status as READY (252 codecs loaded), but I have no idea which other ones to remove.

                          I've tried running PrCS4 without Outlook, Fineprint, DiskKeeper, ActiveSync, even turned Norton 360 off for a while.

                          Bottom line is that after all that, the keyboard shuttle behaviour is unchanged - it still stutters for a while before becoming smoother.

                          I've run perfmon while shuttling and it shows the CPU stays around 30%.

                          Average disk queue length doesn't go above 0.800 and most of the time it is 0.000.

                          Pages/sec averaged 6.0 with a peak at 96.0, but much of the time it sat at 0.0.

                          The way I see it, and with advice from looking around the internet forums, my PC doesn't seem to be stressed at all.

                          So I'm still left with only the one lead - the OpenGL2.0 question.

                          I checked out the graphics cards that have been tested (as compatible) with PrCS4 on the adobe site (www.adobe.com/products/premiere/dvhdwrdb.html) and the only ones listed are PCI-express cards. Unfortunately my PC is too old to have a PCI-express slot (I run an AGP card), and although it's meant to support OpenGL2.0, I'm still not sure.

                          I'd be interested to know if anyone runs Premiere Pro CS4 with an non-OpenGL2.0 AGP graphics card and does not experience the stuttering effect when using keyboard shuttling.

                          Also, do you think an Adobe technician could advise what sort of behaviour is to be expected with a graphics card that does not support OpenGL2.0.

                          Reading up on OpenGL2.0 seems to say that the new features relate to vertex and fragment shading - and I'm not sure these are relevant for video preview. The wiki also lists Radeon 9550 supports OpenGL2.0 (not that everything in Wikipedia is gospel). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

                          So like I say - I'm at a loss.

                          Any further advice would be very much appreciated.