36 Replies Latest reply on Dec 29, 2009 3:21 AM by brightface

    NTSC DVD grey menu no audio

    brightface

      Hi

       

      I have been using Adobe Prem Pro 2.0 windows XP and using the inbuilt menu in Pro2 and works fine in PAL.

      I exported this as a NTSC DVD and burnt a NTSC copy works fine.

      However when it is played in the USA ona player of any kind it has a grey menu and no audio is on the disk. I have checked my settings and looks like it exported fine.

      I even tested it before I sent it out. Any ideas?

       

      Thanks

       

      brightface

        • 1. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Welcome to the forum.

           

          Which Menu did you customize and exactly did you customize it?

           

          When you say that you tested it, prior to delivery, what method did you use to test?

           

          I hardly ever use the direct authoring to DVD-Video from PrPro 2.0 (until yesterday that is!), but I do about what you're doing in Encore all of the time - all in NTSC for me, and have never had any issues. I'll also play along with what you're doing, as I need a refresher course in the direct authoring from PrPro, and will test per your instructions, to see if things work for me.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
            brightface Level 1

            I created my own menu in AE7 and imported it into PP2. Works fine in PP2 and also when burnt as a PAL DVD.

            When I say tested I mean played it on several multi regional players. However when played on a USA player of any kind the menu is greyed and there is no audio. I am using the settings that Adobe have given. I have also asked others to make sure I am.

            Cant say I am a great fan of Encore I tried using it about a year and a half ago but my projects wouldn't encode properly. So I spent a lot of time on the Encore forum with others asking the same question. I gave up due to time constraint and went back to using PP2. So been authoring from here.

            Like I said my PAL version works no problem. My NTSC version works fine here in the UK.

            But in the USA grey menu no audio. Who can help?

            • 3. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              It really looks like OE (Operator Error): Wrong encode settings. What were they and what audio format?

              • 4. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Most current PAL players are multi-regional, while we in NTSC-land are not so fortunate. It is most likely an incompatibility with our equipment. For you, I do not know which steps might prove most beneficial, other than picking up a pure NTSC player to work with. Bummer that you guys get the universal stuff, and we do not, but that is life.

                 

                As for Encore, I AM a big fan, using it almost totally flawlessly for years. Now, I am still on EnDVD 2.0, so there could be some differences in later versions.

                 

                I do think that Harm Millaard does do a lot of multi-regional work, delivering both NTSC and PAL material. He's also in Holland (PAL-land), so maybe he has some thoughts that will help you directly.

                 

                If you do go the Encore route, please post to the Encore forum. There are many multi-regional folk there. Jeff Bellune does NTSC and PAL and Neil Wilkes does PAL and NTSC, being in the UK.

                 

                Wish that I could be of more help.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  what audio format?

                   

                  This is a great starting point. In PAL-land, MPEG Audio has been optional, though is being phased out. In NTSC-land, it is NOT even optional. The primary Audio must be PCM/WAV or AC3 (a variation on MPEG, but with a big difference). Now, one can do supplemental Audio in NTSC, such as DTS, or DD Pro-Logic II, but the primary stream is limited. Could this be the issue?

                   

                  Good one Harm,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                    brightface Level 1

                    Thanks for all your answers and assistance greatly appreciated.

                    I have used PCM audio setting for audio.

                    As far as I know from my techi supplier my DVD Drive should burn multi-regional on any disks I create.

                    When I am ready I will go back and take Encore on. But for the moment I'd be happy to get this to work as it should.

                    So why would a menu end up grey? I wonder!

                     

                    brightface

                    • 7. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      With a DVD burner you can't apply regional codes (that is limited to replicated disks) and that has nothing to do with BW images and no audio. That is purely a matter of the conversion applied to convert from PAL to NTSC and the audio codec used.

                      • 8. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                        brightface Level 1

                        While I remember and I am still getting use to your terminology. The unfortunate person who recieved my disks in sunny Texas said he couldnt find any audio stream when he tried to rip my DVD.

                        • 9. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          That is no surprise, since your original MPEG2-DVD and possibly the separate (non-multiplexed) audio file get multiplexed and put in VOB files on the DVD. So there is no separate audio file discernable.

                          • 10. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                            brightface Level 1

                            This is an old issue with regards to selecting how a drive would play a out of region Disk.

                            The PC would prompt you to change the regional settings in order to play your DVD.

                            I think it worked on the basis of 5 attempts before it reverted back to being a permanent drive that only played the default regional. Correct me if I am wrong. I had it happen to me today on a PC.

                             

                            Merry Christmas!

                            • 11. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                              brightface Level 1

                              Harm, This may not be a surprise to you but to me its all new.

                               

                              Question then why would PP2.0 Multiplex a non multiplex file and put VOB files on the DVD?

                              I thought that was default to have a VOB files on a DVD?

                              I thought by default you had a folder for VOB files and one for Audio? Am I mistaken?

                              So How do I stop Premiere doing that and put an audio track on there that can be recognised?

                               

                              (Ps i am quite limited in my understanding of VOB Files)

                               

                              Merry Christmas!

                              • 12. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                On a video DVD there is a Video_TS directory that contains the VOB files, among other things. The use of the Audio_TS directory is optional for video DVD's and not all programs create it and if it exists at all it will be empty. I can't remember if PR2 does or does not create it. Nero does. For Audio DVD's the Audio_TS is mandatory and will be filled with the audio files. But the existence of the Audio_TS directory is irrelevant for your problem.

                                 

                                The most common work-flow to create video DVD's is:

                                 

                                Encode your sequence/timeline with MPEG2DVD to a video file and a separate audio file. Non-multiplexed.

                                 

                                Import into Encore for authoring, adding menu's, subtitles, etc. This uses the two files encoded earlier, the video file and the audio file.

                                 

                                When finished authoring, one burns to DVD (or BRD) and Encore 'translates' the separate video and audio files and all other stuff from the previous authoring step into VOB files (and other required files) and 'burns' these to the DVD.

                                 

                                PR2 works in a similar fashion, with the exception of the authoring done in Encore, but effectively the flow is:

                                 

                                AVI -->> MPEG2DVD & Audio -->> VOB.

                                • 13. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                  brightface Level 1

                                  Harm

                                   

                                  Yes I would agree about for directory folders I have seen several make ups.

                                   

                                  Getting back to my issue. As you can imagine I have created and authored in PP2 and produced a PAL DVD that works fine.

                                  I really don't want to get into Encore just yet. It may solve the problem but surely PP2 should be able to do this and turn out a NTSC DVD with audio that is discernable.

                                  Are you saying to use the MPEG AUDIO option for audio and not PCM?

                                  • 14. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                    I haven't used Premiere Pro 2 in a very long time, but....

                                     

                                    Did you try importing your PAL Premiere Pro project into a new NTSC Premiere Pro project?  If not, give it a go.  You'll have to scale your PAL footage to fit the NTSC frame, but you can handle that easily by nesting your final PAL sequence into a new NTSC sequence.  Export the new NTSC sequence to NTSC DVD and see what happens.

                                     

                                    -Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      No, only use PCM or AC3. AC3, even if only stereo is the preferred method.

                                      • 16. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                        brightface Level 1

                                        Hmmn

                                         

                                        Now there's a thought.

                                        I have about 1hr and forty five mins to resize. So I may save this option for a smaller project. Plus I dont think it will help my original problem.

                                        Unless I am mistaken...

                                        • 17. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                          brightface Level 1

                                          Harm

                                           

                                          I am getting confused here. You said to use MPEG2DVD & Audio?

                                          • 18. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            That is the demuxed approach, which often gives the best results. The alternative is to use multiplexing, which will result in one file, where video and audio are muxed together.

                                             

                                            So the most common approach is:

                                             

                                            DEMUXED: AVI -->> MPEG2DVD + separate Audio -->> VOB

                                             

                                            The other approach is:

                                             

                                            MUXED: AVI -->> MPEG2DVD (including Audio) -->> VOB

                                            • 19. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                              brightface Level 1

                                              Na, you lost me on that one. the idea is there. but how do you practically do this. What options do I choose in order to put a seperate audio file on the DVD?

                                              • 20. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                You can't. The DVD specs ONLY allow muxed VOB's.

                                                • 21. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  Looking up-thread, I wonder if your client in Texas, US, is confused as to what to expect on the DVD-Video.

                                                   

                                                  As has been stated, the VIDEO_TS folder with the IFO, BUP and VOB(s), is all that is required. The AUDIO_TS folder, where present, is a hold-over from the mostly discontinued DVD-Audio format. If it is there, it should be totally empty.

                                                   

                                                  Your Audio will be muxed into the MPEG-2 file that makes up most, if not all, of the VOB(s).

                                                   

                                                  I just burned a DVD-Video from PrPro 2. I have not delivered that yet. I'll check that disc, just to see if PrPro writes the empty AUDIO_TS folder. I just cannot remember - some programs do, and some do not. Going back some years, set-top players still looked for that empty folder, but most newer ones do not bother.

                                                   

                                                  If your client is unable to rip the VOB(s), that might well indicate an issue on their end, and either OE, or a problem with their ripping software.

                                                   

                                                  You state that your Audio is PCM/WAV. That is as good as it gets. That's using one of the allowed Audio streams, and the one that can cause the fewest issues on someone's computer.

                                                   

                                                  One question: did you do any Menus, or is your DVD-Video just Auto-Play? If there is any Menu/navigation, that will appear in the first VOB, and can give some ripping software issues. If Auto-Play, then the first VOB (and all others) will be just the muxed MPEG-2 file. One trick is to just copy the VOB(s) to the computer, and rename them from xxxxx.VOB to xxxx.MPEG. That would be my first instruction to the client. Now, if there is a Menu and navigation, remember that all that will be inside the first VOB. Sometimes, that material can get in the way of getting to just the MPEG-2 content.

                                                   

                                                  This ARTICLE goes into more detail on VOB's. Might be worth a read, and might be helpful to pass on to your client.

                                                   

                                                  Now, all of the above is assuming that you were able to deliver a fully NTSC-compliant DVD-Video. Harm and Jeff are working with you on making sure that you are, so I will not mess up that discussion.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Just checked the DVD-Video from PrPro 2.0. It contains two folders: OpenDVD and VIDEO_TS.

                                                     

                                                    OpenDVD contains:

                                                    Sources folder with VST_01__VOB folder. Inside is VTS_01_1_VOB.ses file

                                                    ClickMe.htm

                                                    Opendvd.pvm

                                                    untitled.dvd

                                                     

                                                    The VIDEO_TS folder contains:

                                                    VIDEO_TS.BUP

                                                    VIDEO_TS.IFO

                                                    VTS_01_0.BUP

                                                    VTS_01_0.IFO

                                                    VTS_01_1.VOB

                                                    VTS_01_2.VOB

                                                    VTS_01_3.VOB

                                                    VTS_01_4.VOB

                                                    VTS_01_5.VOB

                                                     

                                                    It would be these latter VOB files, that would contain the MPEG-2 muxed files. This DVD-Video was an Auto-Play with no Menus, or any navigation, and was produced from a Sequence in PrPro 2.0 and burned to DVD-Video from that program.

                                                     

                                                    The ClickMe.htm opens a multi-language disclaimer:

                                                     

                                                    "This DVD was created using Adobe Premiere Pro, portions of which utilize AuthorScript® under license from Sonic Solutions.

                                                     

                                                    The files that describe the contents of this disc ("descriptive files"), which are recorded on this disc in the OpenDVD directory, contain proprietary and/or copyrighted material of Sonic Solutions. Please note that these files are protected by technological measures designed to prevent unauthorized access to them and are subject to the terms of the ~application~  Software License Agreement, including, without limitation, the restriction against modification in Section 4.2."

                                                     

                                                    It had been so long ago that I burned a DVD-Video from PrPro 2.0, that I had to check.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Hope that this helps,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                      brightface Level 1

                                                      scrrenshotpmn2.jpg

                                                      Thanks everyone for your help.

                                                       

                                                      I have checked the original PAL DVD disk to check on the structure. One has an open DVD details and some documents and the other is a video folder containing video files. I dont see this being an issue as we discussed past years have seen several different types of structure on a disk.

                                                       

                                                      Getting back to my NTSC disk. I have enclosed a sceen shot of my export settings for my NTSC DVD.

                                                      Theres just one thing that I cant explain happens and thats when I select a greater quality say from 2.1 -5 and move the dial the setting changes to custom.

                                                       

                                                      I am still confused about multiplex. So if someone could explain to me what that is about. You will have to bear with me while I try and grasp it.

                                                      Am I missing something here.

                                                       

                                                      Geting back to my animated menu that works fine in PAL but in NTSC is greyed out. I have gone back to the original AE file and exported it out as a QT instead of an AVI as for PAL.

                                                       

                                                      Merry Christmas brightface

                                                      • 24. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                        brightface Level 1

                                                        Yes I agree with all that...

                                                         

                                                        OpenDVD contains:

                                                        Sources folder with VST_01__VOB folder. Inside is VTS_01_1_VOB.ses file

                                                        ClickMe.htm

                                                        Opendvd.pvm

                                                        untitled.dvd

                                                         

                                                        The VIDEO_TS folder contains:

                                                        VIDEO_TS.BUP

                                                        VIDEO_TS.IFO

                                                        VTS_01_0.BUP

                                                        VTS_01_0.IFO

                                                        VTS_01_1.VOB

                                                        VTS_01_2.VOB

                                                        VTS_01_3.VOB

                                                        VTS_01_4.VOB

                                                        VTS_01_5.VOB

                                                        • 25. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          I am still confused about multiplex. So if someone could explain to me what that is about. You will have to bear with me while I try and grasp it.

                                                          Am I missing something here.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          For Multiplexing, you will want to choose the DVD radio button. What is happening now is that your Exported file is actually two, an Audio-only and a Video-only. The Multiplexing will combine the two into one. When going from PrPro to DVD, you will want the resulting file muxed (Multiplexed). You have already chosen (first screen) Video & Audio, which is what you want. Just change the Multiplexing.

                                                           

                                                          Now, from your destination folder, you could Import the Video into Encore as a Timeline, and the Audio as an Asset. I do this for my Exports for use in Encore. One just drags the Audio file from the Project Panel to the appropriate Timeline, where it will snap into place. Repeat for any other Audio files.

                                                           

                                                          Hope that this helps,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            If my not reading a bunch of posts in between misses something, never mind....

                                                             

                                                            Earlier in the thread, you seemed to miss the idea that all vob files on the DVD are multiplexed.  There are never separate video and audio files for actual DVD video DVDs.

                                                             

                                                            The files you provide to Encore (that it will build into vobs) can be multiplexed (e.g. mpg) or not (e.g. m2v and wav).

                                                             

                                                            Perhaps that is what you were missing.

                                                            • 27. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                              I am still confused about multiplex. So if someone could explain to me what that is about. You will have to bear with me while I try and grasp it.

                                                              Am I missing something here.

                                                               

                                                              Post #18

                                                              • 28. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                Stanley,

                                                                 

                                                                I would normally agree, as they SHOULD be muxed into the VOB. However, the OP's Multiplexing tab shows None. Then, there was the question on what Multiplexing does.

                                                                 

                                                                Also, I'm still not 100% certain of the exact mechanics of getting the files to work. Since this is all within PrPro, there could be other issues. Were the OP going to Encore, I think we could nail it down quickly, and efficiently. As it is, I'm not sure.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks for pointing that out, and please jump in if you see something that we're all missing.

                                                                 

                                                                Appreciated,

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                • 29. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  The OP said, in response to Harm's clear diagram at post 18:

                                                                   

                                                                  "Na, you lost me on that one. the idea is there. but how do you practically do this. What options do I choose in order to put a seperate audio file on the DVD?"

                                                                   

                                                                  I assume he was confused about the DVD spec that means the vob's are muxed, and there can be no separate audio.

                                                                   

                                                                  As to what other problems he may have had with PPro, I have not been tracking.

                                                                   

                                                                  Now your (Hunt's) statement:

                                                                  I would normally agree, as they SHOULD be muxed into the VOB. However, the OP's Multiplexing tab shows None. Then, there was the question on what Multiplexing does.

                                                                   

                                                                  Also, I'm still not 100% certain of the exact mechanics of getting the files to work. Since this is all within PrPro, there could be other issues. Were the OP going to Encore, I think we could nail it down quickly, and efficiently. As it is, I'm not sure.

                                                                   

                                                                  I had always assumed, when I was using Prem 2 to burn, that there was an intermediate file or process of some sort.  You might be able to pick muxed or not, but the end result would be a vob (that is muxed).

                                                                  • 30. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                    I had always assumed, when I was using Prem 2 to burn, that there was an intermediate file or process of some sort.  You might be able to pick muxed or not, but the end result would be a vob (that is muxed).

                                                                     

                                                                    Stanley,

                                                                     

                                                                    I have to admit that until a few days ago, I had not visited the direct DVD-Video writing from PrPro 2.0 in some years, and then only for a moment. I am not sure of the actual mechanics of the file generation in PrPro 2.0.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                    • 31. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                      brightface Level 1

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                       

                                                                      I have taken your advice and selected the DVD radio button on the multiplexing tab. I am burning a NTSC DVD and hope that will be the answer. I dont know why Adobe don't select that by default. I would never have known.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Getting back to the original problem of a greyed out menu. I created my menu in AE7 (the version before CS3 whatever it is)

                                                                      Exported it out as a AVI and chose it as the background for my Menu in PP2.0. Now this turned up to be greyed out when played in the USA. And although my client may have some ripping issues. I am surprised that the menu turned out that way. I have changed this into a QT file maybe that will help.

                                                                       

                                                                      My only option now is to wait n see what the outcome will be from my client.

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks for your advice and help.

                                                                       

                                                                      brightface

                                                                      • 32. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                        Good luck with the Multiplexing.

                                                                         

                                                                        I have never tried to use an AE 7 (before CS3) Menu in PrPro, but use them in Encore all of the time. Do not know if there are some potential issues with the rudimentary authoring function in PrPro, as I almost never use it - Encore gets 99.9% of my authoring work.

                                                                         

                                                                        In the meantime, HERE is a site with AE Menu tutorials. Jon Geddes is the AE Menu "guru" on the Encore forum.

                                                                         

                                                                        Maybe something in there will be helpful, and good luck,,

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                        • 33. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                          brightface Level 1

                                                                          Yuk

                                                                           

                                                                          My multiplexed NTSC DVD didnt turn out well at all. Now I have lost sync. And the quality is awefull.

                                                                          • 34. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                            brightface Level 1

                                                                            Just to let you know I have abandoned PP2 and gone back to CS3 and managed to download the updates which took two hours.

                                                                            I am now in Encore (which is another planet). So I think the answer to my problem was that I needed to select the DVD radio button in the multiplexing tab. However my NTSC disc burnt aweful as you can read in my previous post. Id like to say a big thank you to everyone who contributed.

                                                                            And especially to Hunt and Harm.

                                                                             

                                                                            Happy New Year All. Im off to the Encore Forum.

                                                                             

                                                                            Ps Why does Adobe use terminology to explain things and then never list them in the index?

                                                                            • 35. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                              Why does Adobe use terminology to explain things and then never list them in the index?

                                                                               

                                                                              I wonder the same thing. While Adobe is not alone in this, they certainly be better. As an example, I was looking for info on Interpret Footage in the PrE 4 Help files. I know it in PrPro, but wanted to check it out in PrE 4. Guess what? There was one entry, and it referred to footage with an Alpha Channel ONLY! Bogus!

                                                                               

                                                                              How I long for the days of well-printed manuals. How I wish that Help files really were. Now, if there is a manual, most entries just say "see Help files, F1." Yeah, like those will be of any use.

                                                                               

                                                                              OK, off the soapbox. Everyone, but me, loves on-line Help, or PDF Help. I am the last holdout for well-printed, well-written manuals. I'll even pay top $ for those suckas'.

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: NTSC DVD grey menu no audio
                                                                                brightface Level 1

                                                                                Personally my thoughts were that Adobe writes books for excuse me saying this boffins or geeks as they seem to be the only ones who understand them or have the answers. I'm not saying manuals are hard to understand; more that its hard to find what you are looking for and that the reference they make isnt cross referenced in an example any where else. I think there should be more, see bla bla. And even an explanation of terminology after all we are all trying to learn adobe language with various dialects. I am a bad learner through just reading books and as I work in Education I know there are many ways of getting the message across not just print that only lasts till the next update. Then again Adobe make software not teaching aids.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Again side issue here. The powers that be want to control us as best as they can and confusion seems to be the best way. Have you noticed, try doing business in the UK. Babylon Matrix. We are all being suckered down a plug hole.