1 2 Previous Next 61 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2009 7:01 PM by Steve Grisetti

    Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable

    jeffgedgaud Level 1

      I have received Premiere Elements 8 for reviewing and installed the package with both Photoshop & Premiere Elements on a newly installed Windows Vista Premium system. The computer has Adobe CS4 running on it with no problems so I am pretty sure it can handle Premiere 8 but does have an NVIDIA graphics card, Zotac 8800GT. This system also has Intel Quad Core Q6600 @ 2.99 GHz, 4 GB Ram and Zotac 8800 GT.

       

      This should easily run Premiere 8 but when I start up the program after a succesful installation and updating it does the rendering in background where I cannot use the program at all. If I do anything in Premiere Elements it will go to an opaque white like the usual not responding in Windows Vista for awhile and I cannot do anything in the program. It has not crashed but just sits in the background rendering and i cannot really use the program at all.

       

      The videos I have imported and tried to use in a project are small two to four minute AVI clips that I want to work with but the program takes a long time with background rendering. Is Adobe seriously saying I need to do a bunch of driver uninstall and install older ones or other things to get a less expensive video editing program to work on a known good system that I can render video and audio in using other programs with no problems.

       

      I review products routinely and this system along with another, Windows Vista Business, AMD Dual Core @ 3.0 Ghz 2GB Ram, does not run Premiere Elements at all without the rendering in background that I could ever get through. Both systems are fully up to date and do not have any problems running other things like Flash, Dreamweaver and other CS4 programs as well as a host of other things like TV on PC using PCI cards.

       

      This is a Vista program that should run fine, is anyone else having problems like this?

       

      I also tried disabling the background rendering and turning off the analyzer in the organizer but it does not seem to have any affect to my problems.

       

      Is anyone else with a Windows Vista and NVIDIA graphics card having problems like the program is rendering in background and not being able to be used in this mode until it has finished?

        • 1. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Jeff,

           

          Background Rendering can be turned off, and probably should be for editing. Rendering is for playback only. I use it only where I have done some major Keyframing, or have added Effects that I need to see as smoothly, as is possible. Then, I set the WAB (Work Area Bar) to just the section that I wish to Render (or Export).

           

          I'm surprised that turning this OFF, plus disabling the Auto Analyze (this feature has caused all sorts of issues) did not help things.

           

          Now, you state that you have AVI files. That leaves a lot of room regarding the actual CODEC inside. This ARTICLE will help you with some background on the AVI (and others) "wrapper," plus will give tips on finding out exactly what is inside that "wrapper."

           

          Also, please tell us a bit more about the I/O sub-system, i.e. your HDD's, their size, speed, controller type, free space and how they are allocated. Most editing is very I/O intensive.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            This ARTICLE was primarily written for PrPro, but most applies directly to setting up a computer for an NLE session.

             

            Most computers, even stout and brand new ones, can benefit from a bit of set up.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
              jeffgedgaud Level 1

              I'm not a noob at computing and reviewing software, notice I did mention that I am reviewing this for Adobe.

               

              I do not think CODECS are a problem here as I am using two different AVI files to try and make sure it is not the camera that is the problem. If Adobe says it can work with AVI files than it should. They should not say it supports AVI files and than have issues with it working with them, I am using two different cameras and hand delivering files to the HDD from an SD Card so no importing issues need apply.

               

              As far as HDD is concerned I have a common Seagate 500GB drive running at 7200 RPM's using SATA but that really does not matter all that much, I/O subsystem does not have all that much to do with whether a program works like this and under these conditions. Yes, if I am using a flash drive as my operating system drive than it would but when I said All CS4 programs like Dreamweaver, Photoshop and Flash run fine I meant that they are speedy with no problems.

               

              I can run games, perform video editing functions using other programs and can use all of Adobe's CS4 Web programs like Flash, Illustrator and Dreamweaver so my system is not to blame, Its the program. Your suggestions may have some merit but I am looking for suggestions that will give me an idea if the program works for what it is being sold as or if they released it too early.

               

              I want to check out these features as they released the program with them and to release a product and send it out to reviewers when things are seriously flawed is a no no in my opinion.

               

              I'm looking for others who have had similar issues and possible fixes for them as well as suggestions like turning off the Analyzer and rendering but these did absolutely nothing on two systems.

               

              I am running two different computers, both up to date and with good known drivers and everything works fine on them but this program. One system is an Intel Core 2 Quad and the other an AMD Dual Core with everything well within the system requirements of the program so it should work at least somewhat and be perfectly usable for me.

               

              Again I am looking for people with similar experiences, i.e. unresponsive program, problems with or without rendering in background and general Premiere Elements not running on Windows Vista 32 bit systems as well as any good suggestions for getting it to run decent.

               

              Suggestions such as reinstall OS or Premiere Elements, or use different hardware is not very helpful as I am trying this out on two different computers with up to date software and drivers as well as a new install on one system of OS and everything else so these should not be at fault or even considered.

               

              Thank you for your help.

               

              Jeff Gedgaud

              • 4. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Jeff,

                 

                You may have a lot of experience with reviewing, but you seem to not be comprehending that AVI is but a "wrapper." To say that a program can work with AVI is an impossibly broad statement. An AVI wrapper can contain anything from a PDF with the wrong extension to a file encoded with almost any CODEC known to mankind. If the AVI is Xvid, or DivX, it will not Import and edit. If it's encoded with the Lagarith Lossless CODEC, you need that properly installed. Now, when Adobe says that .AVI is a supported format, they are talking about MS AVI [Uncompressed] and MS DV-AVI, and not all of the possibilities.

                 

                Now, if the format/CODEC is a state-secret, then so be it.

                 

                When one has problems, they sort out this way, and in this order, hence my questions:

                 

                1.) System

                2.) Project

                3.) Assets

                4.) OE

                5.) Bugs

                 

                Sorry that I cannot help you. Maybe someone else will be more successful.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                 

                BTW - I do not feel that anything in my attempts to get you going inplied that you were a noob. If they were taken that way, I apologize.

                • 5. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                  jeffgedgaud Level 1

                  I am very confused with you calling AVI a wrapper, its a file format for video and audio. It can contain video and/or audio or compressed video but this wrapper stuff containing PDF files is just going to confuse people who are simply trying to get a program to work using a camcorder. I have stated simply that I am trying to get this program to work with a video shot from a camcorder, you're talking about the broad use of AVI in all sorts of contexts and other programs that do not really pertain to Elements and video editing.

                   

                  I do not want to confuse other readers but I am simply using the program after installation with a video shot from a Genius or Coby handheld camcorder with AVI file formats such as would play in Windows Media Player. AVI files your talking about would not play in media player or whatever your discussing with wrappers does not really apply here. AVI files that Elements uses straight from a camera are video and/or audio files that a camcorder would output or save when you record a video.

                   

                  My problems with the program are through the first three steps of your troubleshooting list quite quickly, not sure what OE is, but I pretty much ruled out things I could be doing wrong with program or video files and computers. Before I posted here I used two seperate computers and different video from different camcorders in different projects. Sorry if you did not understand but to clarify, I am trying this on two different computers but am having the same problems using two seperate video files from two different camcorders in two seperate project folders.

                   

                  Premiere Elements 8 becomes unresponsive at times even with background rendering off. Anyone else having this problem on a Windows Vista 32 bit system with an NVIDIA based graphics card?

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    I have stated simply that I am trying to get this program to work with a video shot from a camcorder, you're talking about the broad use of AVI in all sorts of contexts and other programs that do not really pertain to Elements and video editing.

                     

                    This where the confusion comes in. An unknown camcorder shooting to .AVI does not tell us anything. The example of the .PDF with the bad extension was extreme, I will admit, but it has happened, same with .XML, .DOC and even .TXT. AVI is Audio Video Interleave. That is it. It is a wrapper, just like .MOV, .WMV and MPEG, just to name a few. What is inside is the key. I recommend the use of G-Spot, a freeware utility that will break into that wrapper. It is mentioned in that linked article.

                     

                    A user recently had a helmet-cam, that recorded to .AVI. Unfortunately, within that Audio Video Interleave was the Xvid CODEC. Without conversion, no Adobe NLE can edit that footage natively, even if the Xvid, or the DivX CODEC is properly installed. Some other NLE's can, but not Adobe's.

                     

                    If the unknown camcorder uses a CODEC, beyond the MS Uncompressed, or MS DV, there is a great likelihood that no Adobe NLE can Import and edit it natively. I use the Lagarith Lossless CODEC for intermediate file transport. Natively, Adobe cannot edit it. When I install the Lagarith Lossless CODEC, then PrE, or PrPro can edit it. It's the same for HuffYUV, and many others. PrE and PrPro ship and install but a very few CODEC's. One's system usually has more (some can allow an Adobe NLE to edit the footage, but they are primarily for either encoding on Export, or just simple playback) too. There are many hundreds, if not thousands, of other CODEC's out there. Many can be used for encoding, and nearly all can be used for playback. Some can be used by the NLE to edit the footage, but this is a very small sub-set of the total.

                     

                    Since I work in SD only, and on Adobe NLE's, I tend to think of .AVI as being the same as DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio - it almost always is on my system, but not on the majority of others, where Xvid and DivX, also in the .AVI wrapper abound. That is why the first question asked, when someone mentions "AVI" is "what is inside the wrapper." Next will come a rec. that the user run the file through G-Spot, or MediaInfo, to peek inside. Otherwise, AVI is totally meaningless, other than that it is probably Audio Video Interleave.

                     

                    Even when one gets down to something like the H.264 CODEC in an MP4, there can still be differences. These are usually related to ultimate quality, and not to editability, or basic encoding, but differences exist - Lead, MainConcept and Apple to name but a few variations. The same can be said for a .MOV file. I use these a lot with the Animation CODEC, but they can contain all sorts of different CODEC's, and some are Mac-only ones, that are not even available for the PC.

                     

                    The topics of wrappers and CODEC's are highly involved and can be highly confusing. It does not help that mfgrs. release new, or revised CODEC's with such great frequency. Recently, we got several versions of AVCHD and then AVCHD-Lite. MJPEG is another CODEC, that has some variations and PJPEG will likely follow suit. It will likely get more confusing as time goes on.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Here's a recent DISCUSSION on CODEC's and how they impact video editing.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                        GEAtkins

                        PRE8 crashes for me continuously.  My system specs and some lengthy discussions are here:

                         

                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/523035?tstart=0

                         

                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/531859?tstart=0

                         

                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/522709?tstart=0

                         

                        Seems one of my other threads has been deleted.  Either that or I can't find it under "Your Stuff."

                         

                        Anyway, enjoy and welcome to the vortex.  I would love to see a copy of your review of PRE8 when it is finished.

                         

                        Glenn

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                          blandry58 Level 1

                          I received my copy of Premiere Elements 8 a few days ago and

                          it has worn me out. Constantly crashes at random points in the capure, editing and even when I'm simply trying to exit from the program. Today while capture file produced with my Panasonic PV-GS400, which produces MS Compatible AVI files ( and I understand it's a wrapper but don't give a hoot since these files worked with Premiere Elements 2.0 and Movie Maker), it would halt the capture and tell me it encountered a media  format change. This is bull since I never make adjustments to my media format. According to the location of the so called change, I did it in blizzard conditions whilst sitting on a ski lift. NOT!

                           

                          I'm getting ready to uninstall 8.0 and re-install 2.0. Don't have much choice.

                           

                          This is a software problem and 8.0 is horrible. Worst software I've ever worked with!!

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                            Paul787 Level 3

                            Jeff, is the Coby camcorder something like this?

                             

                            http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=prod&prod_num_id=371&pcat_id=1011#features-tab

                             

                            That is an extremely inexpensive camcorder and may well be the root of your difficulties.

                             

                            Under specifications, it says: AVI fle, codec: Motion JPEG.  I am not sure about Premiere Elements 8, but in earlier versions of Premiere Elements, Motion JPEG formats are often problematic unless converted to a more appropriate file format first.

                             

                            As for the Genius camcorder, the only one I can find is this one which is high definition H.264 video.

                             

                            http://www.geniuseshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=145

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                              jeffgedgaud Level 1

                              Actually I got the Coby video to work, its the Genius camera that does not and yes those are the cameras I am using. I really do not care much about the CODEC and file type as I am just trying what any user would, buy the program and try to get it to work without knowing much about CODECS and such. I have been able to use these videos on other editing programs, Cyberlink, Microsoft and Arcsoft, without any problems but I have not been able to do much with Premiere Elements.

                               

                              Something I think I can say and very much sympathize with other users who are having problems is the program should work as intended and advertised by the company right from the box. They should not have to patch the thing to have major issues fixed like cannot even get it to run without going into video formats, users can't even start the program.

                               

                              I also understand there are a lot of different computer setups and you will get the occasional user whose system will have specific issues due to something on his computer but look around the forum,s and other sites to see how many are having problems, 26 users on Amazon have rated Premiere Elements 8 a 1 star, their lowest rating. Out of 44 users who have rated the program on Amazon only 1 could give it a 5 star rating, many are having major issues with the program and say they are not going to use it at all.

                               

                              When I review a product I also see who and how many are having a similar problem with it even if I do not. I get the idea that this program is not very well liked by any of the people who have bought it and want to find out if anyone else is having the same problems. I know the cameras I am using are not the best but do you have the program Paul and if you do how does it work for you?

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                If the CODEC is MJPEG, then the two most often recommended CODEC's are the Morgan and the MainConcept. Either will work fine with most NLE's, when installed properly.

                                 

                                Many camera mfgrs. are using MJPEG as the CODEC. Nikon's most recent DSLR's use it for AV files.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                  blandry58 Level 1

                                  The fact that consumers are having to spend time on a forum discussing things that should be transparent to the user, such as codec and wrapper and such should be a clear indicator that this software has a problem. My wife's Canon FS 100 has been on the market for some time, but it is nearly impossible to get Adobe Premiere Elements 8 to properly display the AVI files produced by the FS 100. Through much research, when I should be enjoying the software and focusing on video editing, I learned that certain hard drive and scan disk models use an MPEG2 and AC3 Audio stream wrapped in an AVI. WHAT?! Who cares? Are the people at Adobe not familiar with Canon Cameras. I was using Canon products probably before many of the programmers were born. Why does the consumer have to figure all the @#$% out?

                                   

                                  But my current problem with PE 8.0 has nothing to do with a new camera or format. I have a ton of older videos captured with a Panasonic PV-GS400, considered a top of the consumer line MiniDV camera in its day. These videos have been edited dozens of times with Pinnacle Studio, Premiere Elements 2.0, Power Director and Movie Maker. (I sometimes use Movie Maker when traveling with my laptop). Most of my movies are 4:3 Standard and all are saved as AVI files. I never had a problem producing high quality movies until I purchased PE 8.0. I never had to concern myself with what was in the "wrapper".

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                    I really do not care much about the CODEC and file type as I am just trying what any user would, buy the program and try to get it to work without knowing much about CODECS and such. I have been able to use these videos on other editing programs, Cyberlink, Microsoft and Arcsoft, without any problems but I have not been able to do much with Premiere Elements.

                                     

                                    Unfortunately, too many camera mfgrs. are not interested in having their products record AV material in a form that is edited. Their target market is aimed at users, who just want to shoot footage, and then either display it with the camera, or flash media card, attached to a computer, or TV set, or upload, unedited to YouTube, or similar. They use various CODEC's (with more new, or variations on older ones) coming each quarter.

                                     

                                    Some NLE's can do a better and more universal job of editing these CODEC's right out of the box. As you are finding, PrE is not one of those. It is designed around DV-AVI Type II files for SD and several HD formats/CODEC's, like AVCHD or HDV.

                                     

                                    The right way to handle this would be for the camera mfgrs. to include the necessary CODEC in the utilities disk. Very, very few do, and this covers some heavy-hitters, like Canon and Nikon, with their DSLR's and point-and-shoot still cameras, that also do motion recording. That would allow the resulting footage to be edited by most NLE programs. Unfortunately, most do not anticipate that their users WILL want to edit, only view, or upload complete to YouTube, or similar.

                                     

                                    No NLE will handle every possible Asset thrown at it. Some, as you point out, are much more lenient, than are others. Some get closer to being universal, though usually at the sacrifice of usability, features and then output choices. Also, by 2nd Qtr. 2010, there will be new CODEC's and formats, that will NOT work in the existing NLE's, regardless of how lenient they are today. It is a never-ending cycle.

                                     

                                    Some mfgrs., like Sony, do a good job of equipping their NLE's (Vegas in this case) with the capabilities to handle their new CODEC's. Development of the cameras is closely tied in to the development of their software. However, they do not work closely with companies like Adobe, CyberLink, Avid, and Magix, as these are the competition for Vegas.

                                     

                                    Though I use PrPro for 99% of my editing needs, I have PrE, CyberLink PowerDirector and Magix MovieEdit Pro, for those file formats and CODEC's that PrPro does not handle well. Along with those, I also have a toolbox full of utilities, like file converters. However, I am not your average consumer, picking up an NLE program and an inexpensive camera that shoots some form of motion, at the local Best Buy. I do this for a living.

                                     

                                    Of the NLE's that I have, that do the broadest work, with the fewest additional add-ons, I think that the CyberLink PowerDirector would be my choice. Now, I cannot edit with it, but probably could, if I spent enough time with it, and did not have PrPro to use. Still, none are 100% fail-safe, right out of the box. They get closer to being universal, but none can handle everything out there, even with their add-on modules, and downloaded CODEC's. That is impossible today, and will be less possible "tomorrow," as new CODEC's and formats are introduced.

                                     

                                    It would get down to what does the "average" consumer want. According to the camera mfgrs. that is to just display, or upload unedited material to the Web. That is their target market. It does not involve ANY NLE program.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                      jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                      blandry58 wrote:

                                       

                                      The fact that consumers are having to spend time on a forum discussing things that should be transparent to the user, such as codec and wrapper and such should be a clear indicator that this software has a problem. ... I learned that certain hard drive and scan disk models use an MPEG2 and AC3 Audio stream wrapped in an AVI. WHAT?! Who cares? Are the people at Adobe not familiar with Canon Cameras. I was using Canon products probably before many of the programmers were born. Why does the consumer have to figure all the @#$% out?

                                      This is my main concern here, why does the consumer have to even worry about CODEC's being wrappers when this product is sold as a user friendly video editing package that should work regardless of camera type. Yes, I do understand what the wine snob and others are saying but look at the bigger picture here and please stop worrying about codecs.

                                       

                                      People buy the program to edit their videos, not to learn about codec's and file formats. They have a camcorder and want to edit that video into a cute movie to show to the family when they get together for X-mas or other family events and probably don't know much about codec's or file formats or much of that stuff. They want to load a program and use it the way the company says they can, "With Adobe Premiere Elements 8 Software making incredible movies is easier than ever."

                                       

                                      If you have to change file formats in another program or even worry about a codec being a wrapper they will not buy this software if they know this before hand. They want to do what the website says, install program, transfer video to program from camcorder and edit to a final fun movie to show the friends and family. I understand if some individuals have certain problems with video formats from an obscure camera but were talking Canon, Panasonic and other very common ones. Other users are not even getting that far, they start the program and it crashes, GEAtkins can't even get the program to run and others are also complaining about this.

                                       

                                      Learning about codec's is all well and good but people should not even have to worry about them when this software should work from the box with videos from common camera manufacturers.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                                        look at the bigger picture here and please stop worrying about codecs.

                                         

                                        Well, that would be a lot easier, if the camera mfgrs. quit adding new ones, or variations to older ones. If all cameras were miniDV tape-based, using the standard MS DV CODEC in the AVI wrapper, all would be fine in the world. Maybe the slings and arrows should be aimed squarely at them. The "average" consumer wants to go to DVD for viewing. It's actually a step up to go to YouTube, or similar. Forget all things HD, as the "average" consumer does not own a BD burner and will likely not. Keep it simple and all will be fine. Maybe a letter to each camera mfgr. would be in order, so no one has to worry about any CODEC - it will be installed with the OS on their PC.

                                         

                                        Unfortunately, the "average" consumer picks up a camera that was not designed to produce editable footage, and then tries to edit it. Some just will not work in any NLE. Some will, but with such a quality hit that the consumer is left wondering what happened.

                                         

                                        Same thing happens when the average consumer takes their old VHS tapes, or their 8mm/S-8mm films into WalMart to be transferred to DVD for viewing on their new TV hooked to a set-top player. Fine, as far as that goes. Then, they decide that they want to edit the material on that DVD, which has been compressed to MPEG-2. Suddenly, they have major problems, even if their editing program can import the VOB, containing the MPEG-2 footage. The Video-Audio sync is now often off, and the quality is horrible, when they make a few cuts, add a Title and output to another DVD. They cannot understand what has happened, as the stuff looked pretty good on the original DVD. Hundreds come here annually, asking the same question - "what happened to my quality, and why is my Audio out of sync?"

                                         

                                        When you get down to it, the "average" consumer still has a flashing 12:00 on their DVR, just like they did with their VCR.

                                         

                                        I strongly suggest that the "average" consumer stick to Windows Movie Maker, or iMovie on the Mac. They will be much happier and will likely not realize the limitations of those programs, as they only want to cut out the half-hour where they recorded their shoes, not realizing that the camera was on.

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                          jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                          I really do not think your looking at this the correct way, the average consumer does want to edit his videos and Adobe says this should work on current camcorders. Their own website touts the program as easy to use, that would mean you install the program and it works. Aside from codec arguments what about those that just cannot get the program to work before they start to use video.

                                           

                                          Others are having numerous problems with freezing, me too, or crashing during import/export and editing. These things should not be happening as much on a program that passed testing and is for sale to the general public. Consumers. rightly, demand a product that works without having to understand how they work. You turn your TV, on it should give you picture and sound, but yes you do have to connect it correctly and tell the TV to find channels but it should work. Same here, install program, update and you should at least be able to edit or work with video from common cameras.

                                           

                                          Yes, I do understand that tehre are a few people who will have problems but not as many as are complaining here and elsewhere. Premiere Elements should also work well enough right out of the box, but when 26 out of 44 people would have nothing more to do with it according to Amazon ratings there is something wrong with it.

                                           

                                          I think the average consumer has every right to expect to be able to pick this up and edit his home movies, getting rid of foot shots, and not have that many problems with it. Adobe needs to work on these problems or at least admit there is something going on that needs fixing.

                                           

                                          NVIDIA also released an update to their software which seems to be tied into some people's problems and I am currently seeing if this does anything on my systems. We'll see what this does and if it helps I will be sure to let you know.

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                            jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                            Updating to newest NVIDIA drivers, ver 195.62, did nothing to halt the freeze issues I'm having.

                                             

                                            To reiterate my problems:

                                             

                                            Installed Permiere Elements 8 and updated Adobe products without problems.

                                             

                                            Tried editing H264 video from Genius G-Shot HD520 and program freezes. I can edit same file using Cyberink, Movie Maker and Arcsoft editing programs easily.

                                             

                                            I can edit AVI file from Coby Snapp Cam3000 and it works fine with that.

                                             

                                            Updated NVIDIA graphics card drivers to 195.62 and this did not help any issues.

                                             

                                            I also have a couple of lesser issues, when starting program from Welcome screen a few times it will freeze and not open editor or organizer. Not sure if this is a problem due to HD video but it happens when opening new projects or organizer as well as projects that include the HD video.

                                             

                                            Not sure why all this is happening but am sure others are also having issues. I'll try using an older camera and will see what this does.

                                             

                                            Jeff

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                              Chad Baker Adobe Employee

                                              Hi Jeff,

                                               

                                              The fix is included in version 195.81 or higher. Nvidia may not be including this release in search results for all chipsets. The beta driver download is located here:

                                              http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_32bit_195.81_beta.html

                                               

                                              Before upgrading, I would double check that your chipset is included in the "Supported Products" tab of the driver download page. Wouldn't want you to get stuck with the wrong driver for your system.

                                               

                                              We are actively monitoring user success/failure with the updated driver. So be sure to let us know your findings on this thread or the other thread that I created to track this issue: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/540560?tstart=0

                                               

                                              Best regards,

                                               

                                              Chad

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                paulgoelz

                                                The "average" consumer wants to go to DVD for viewing. It's actually a step up to go to YouTube, or similar. Forget all things HD, as the "average" consumer does not own a BD burner and will likely not.

                                                 

                                                You overlook the fact that the majority of new consumer cameras are HD.  Whether or not the average consumer has a BD burner and/or wants to output in HD at this point in time, the owners of these cameras DO at least want to edit the HD footage and output it as SD.  In my experience, PE7 fails miserably at this.  When I can get it to finish a project (nearly impossible beyond about 30 minutes of HD footage), the SD output from HD footage looks terrible.  I switched to Sony Vegas and found no such issues.

                                                 

                                                Unfortunately, the "average" consumer picks up a camera that was not designed to produce editable footage, and then tries to edit it. Some just will not work in any NLE. Some will, but with such a quality hit that the consumer is left wondering what happened.

                                                 

                                                This I still don't understand.  Regardless of how it gets to your monitor, video is after all just a series of still images.  If my PC can play any given video in any given file format and using any given CODEC (ie., has the power and CODECs for the job) , I see no reason not to expect an NLE to be able to edit it.  Heck, it doesn't even have to play it in real time.... just assemble the still images.  And for output, all it has to do is transcode the incoming video format into the outgoing format.

                                                 

                                                But the bottom line is that Adobe is marketing PE as suitable for HD video and it simply is NOT.  This may change if/when it ever becomes a 64 bit application, but for now it is such a resource hog that in my opinion it is defective for the intended use.  I struggled with PE4 and hoped things would be better in PE7.  In fact, PE7 was indeed a bit better than PE4.  But the bottom line is that it still cannot handle reasonable length HD projects and the output to SD (ie., DVD) looks subtantially worse than the very same video edited in Vegas and output to DVD.  Almost like it was output as 320 X 240 and then upsampled to 640 X 480.

                                                 

                                                From what I have read about PE8, it is a BIG step backwards for Adobe and that means I am done with PE for the forseeable future.... no way am I going to pay (again) to upgrade from PE7.  A couple weeks ago I finished a 3 hour HD project in Vegas, output it to DVD and BD (they both played perfectly).  That project would have been impossible in PE7.  And all it was was an assembled bunch of short clips..... nothing fancy.

                                                 

                                                To the original poster.... no, you are not alone.

                                                 

                                                Paul

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                  paulgoelz Level 1

                                                  We are actively monitoring user success/failure with the updated driver. So be sure to let us know your findings on this thread or the other thread that I created to track this issue: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/540560?tstart=0

                                                   

                                                  Best regards,

                                                   

                                                  Chad

                                                   

                                                  Are you also actively monitoring the success / failure rate of users trying to use PE7 and PE8 for editing HD video?  If so, I see no indication of such.  If I sound bitter, you are correct.  I struggled with PE4 and PE7 trying to edit HD video (which it was market as capable of editing) and eventually gave up after months of frustration with flakey behavior / crashes / unintelligible error messages etc.  As soon as I switched to your competitor's product, ALL my problems vanished in an instant.  Same input video, same PC, same output format.

                                                   

                                                  I realize that everyone here is just trying to help, but if you are indeed an Adobe employee, us users need to see an open conduit and information flowing in that conduit and progress towards a solution or you will find you have a lot of former customers like me.

                                                   

                                                  As I have said before on this forum, I am also more than willing to be part of the solution.  I am PC literate and able to diagnose to some extent.  But I don't see any way to get any information I generate into Adobe other than technical support.  And they don't have a clue.

                                                   

                                                  Paul

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                    jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                                    Sorry I did not get the version correct, you're talking about a Beta version and not the regular release that most people would use.

                                                     

                                                    I did try both the 195.62 and the 195.81 and did not have any luck getting my video to work in Premiere.

                                                     

                                                    When i open or try to work with a HD video the program does not respond or freezes and I have to close it using Task Manager. I did notice that when I have worked with it and do get it closed by using the programs close button it is still running some parts in task manager for minutes afterward. Not sure if this has anything to do with problems but I find it funny that I have to end parts of Premiere using a task manager program.

                                                     

                                                    I have contacted Adobe through a marketing manager and he assures me that Adobe's tech staff are aware of problems and are working on helping people with them. They do monitor the forums here, it's their forums after all, and know that people are having problems.

                                                     

                                                    Not sure if this is much comfort for those having problems but at least they do know something is up.

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      You overlook the fact that the majority of new consumer cameras are HD.  Whether or not the average consumer has a BD burner and/or wants to output in HD at this point in time, the owners of these cameras DO at least want to edit the HD footage and output it as SD.  In my experience, PE7 fails miserably at this.  When I can get it to finish a project (nearly impossible beyond about 30 minutes of HD footage), the SD output from HD footage looks terrible.  I switched to Sony Vegas and found no such issues.

                                                       

                                                      This is not overlooked at all. Most do not care to edit their videos. Going from HD to SD material on a DVD is not an easy task, if one wants to get it right, and is way over the head of most consumers and beyond their inclination to learn. They just want to connect their camera to their HD TV and view.

                                                       

                                                      This I still don't understand.  Regardless of how it gets to your monitor, video is after all just a series of still images.  If my PC can play any given video in any given file format and using any given CODEC (ie., has the power and CODECs for the job) , I see no reason not to expect an NLE to be able to edit it.  Heck, it doesn't even have to play it in real time.... just assemble the still images.  And for output, all it has to do is transcode the incoming video format into the outgoing format.

                                                       

                                                      Maybe I can help with the understanding a bit. First, a CODEC is for playback. That is vastly different from editing. Many formats are just not meant to be edited natively. Having a particular CODEC will only loosely guarantee that the file can be played in some software players. I won't go into the discussion and limitations of GOP vs I-frame, but you should research those terms. Then, you'll understand a bit more on editability. Next, a CODEC is used to encode material. A good example of this is the DivX CODEC. It is for creating streaming, heavily-compressed delivery files only. It is NOT designed to produce files for editing. Same for the open source cousin, Xvid.

                                                       

                                                      As far as different NLE's handling different CODEC's with different levels of success, I've already mentioned some that I use for odd material.

                                                       

                                                      But the bottom line is that Adobe is marketing PE as suitable for HD video and it simply is NOT.

                                                       

                                                      Well, I am not an employee of Adobe, nor do I work for any company that does their marketing, or advertising. You'll need to take that up with someone in one of those capacities.

                                                       

                                                      A couple weeks ago I finished a 3 hour HD project in Vegas, output it to DVD and BD (they both played perfectly).  That project would have been impossible in PE7.  And all it was was an assembled bunch of short clips..... nothing fancy.

                                                       

                                                      In that case, Vegas was the best tool for the job. There is nothing wrong with choosing another NLE. Glad that it worked for you. It normally gets high marks, though it is one that I have never used.

                                                       

                                                      Good luck,

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                        Chad Baker Adobe Employee

                                                        Just a point of clarification here. As has been stated many times in this forum and others, the Adobe forums are user-to-user. There's not a guarantee that any particular thread will be reviewed by an Adobe employee, or that we will post a reply to direct queries about help with a product.

                                                        For those kinds of questions, technical support is still your best conduit for discussing the issues you're having with a product.

                                                         

                                                        That being said, if I say "try this and let me know what happens" or that I'm "actively monitoring" a thread, then I'm subscribed to that thread and will at minimum read the response.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for your participation.

                                                        • 25. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                          jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                                          Sorry, the wine snob, but you are not even close to the mark talking about what the average consumer wants.

                                                           

                                                          The consumer first and foremost wants a product that works for what it is supposed to. They pay good money for Adobe Premiere Elements and want it to edit their videos, it should edit them without them having to know what a codec is.

                                                           

                                                          You seem to be stuck on codecs, most people complaining are not concerned with what a codec is, just that their video editing is not working.  If they buy a program that says it can edit their HD video, it should. I think you may be way off with what the average consumer wants or thinks, many complaining here are average consumers and are saying they don't give a hoot about codecs, they want their program to work as Adobe sold it.

                                                           

                                                          I think you need to back off on codecs as the discussion here is not about what a codec is or why the program doesn't work according to some theoretical codec problem. HD videos do not work in Premiere Elements 8 or 7 from what many people are saying in these forums.

                                                           

                                                          Many people do own HD capable cameras and many consumer cameras are HD, take a look around your local Walmart. I think many want to edit their videos into presentable movies for the family and not simply show their video with minutes of watching an empty stage before junior comes out for his big performance, whatever that may be.

                                                           

                                                          We really don't need to know what the average consumer wants to do with his video, Adobe sells a product that is supposed to edit HD video, it does not work.

                                                           

                                                          Anybody out there with Adobe Premiere 7 or 8 that can get HD video to work, edit or import/export without problems please speak up...

                                                          • 26. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                            paulgoelz Level 1

                                                            Maybe I can help with the understanding a bit. First, a CODEC is for playback. That is vastly different from editing.

                                                             

                                                            Sorry I misled you.... I do understand what a CODEC is.  What I don't understand is why PE has such a hard time with video (a series of still images) that my PC can display successfully.  Why should re-arranging the order of those still images be any harder than displaying them one after another in succession?  Editing is just the juxtapositioning of those still images.  If my PC can display the original footage as video, I still don't see IN CONCEPT why PE has such a hard time with it.  All I am asking it to do is display the still images in a different order.

                                                             

                                                            And if some formats are indeed impossible to deal with, PE needs to say "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that" right up front instead of forging ahead only to get flakey or crash after hours of work.  Trouble is that these formats are NOT impossible to deal with.  PE seems to be the odd one out here..... other editors can do it with no strain at all.

                                                             

                                                            Paul

                                                            • 27. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                              paulgoelz Level 1

                                                              Anybody out there with Adobe Premiere 7 or 8 that can get HD video to work, edit or import/export without problems please speak up...

                                                               

                                                              Believe it or not, that would be me   I CAN get PE7 to work just fine to edit HD video..... until the project gets to about 30 minutes or has too many clips.  The boundary is not real clear and seems to be limited by the system resources available to a 32 bit program.... it got better when I switched to Vista 64.  But beyond that vague boundary, all bets are off and well short of the 60 minute mark, PE7 has either crashed or run out of memory or gone unresponsive.  From what I have read, PE8 is considerably worse.  But for SHORT projects without a lot of assets in the project, it seems to work fine.  At least for AVCHD video from my Canon HF100.

                                                               

                                                              I have burned a BD from my edited HD video in PE7 and it looks great.  Trouble is that if I burn a DVD from that same project it looks awful.  Low resolution and fuzzy.  Well below normal DVD quality.

                                                               

                                                              So the bottom line is that if you are a home user with an HD camera shooting videos, you are limited to projects much smaller than the capacity of your output media.  And if you want SD output from your HD camera, you get sub-par results.  These issues are not present with many competing editing packages.

                                                               

                                                              You might ask why I am still here if my PE experience has gone so badly.  Simple.  I kinda LIKE PE and I'd like to see it get better.  PE does some things better than the editor I am currently using.  If I and others like me simply go away, Adobe will have no idea why.  Tech support is absolutely useless for this....

                                                               

                                                              Paul

                                                              • 28. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                paulgoelz Level 1

                                                                For those kinds of questions, technical support is still your best conduit for discussing the issues you're having with a product.

                                                                 

                                                                I think that is also a good summary of the overall problem.  Many of the problems reported here are not user issues.... they are endemic to the program itself.  If technical support is our best (only?) conduit, and if the problems are as unsolvable as they seem to be, we (you?) are sunk.

                                                                 

                                                                Paul

                                                                • 29. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                  Sorry, the wine snob, but you are not even close to the mark talking about what the average consumer wants.

                                                                   

                                                                  Well, that could well be. I am an expert regarding some subjects, but certainly not all. However, I have been active in several video production fora over the last 15 years. Many of these are around consumer-based programs from several different suppliers and several that are non-specific to any programs, or software companies. Before that, I spent many years on the Photoshop and on many photography fora, going back to before there even was an Internet.

                                                                   

                                                                  My observations are based on these and on the myriad posts in these. They are just observations, but are based on years of experience answering questions for both consumers and professionals alike. I do not conduct any market surveys, but only observe. Those are the observations that I have made. Take them as you wish to suit your purpose.

                                                                   

                                                                  BTW - if you are reviewing the program for Adobe, as stated above, why is Adobe not working closely with you to insure that the program runs perfectly? Were I in Adobe's marketing department, and a reviewer was having issues, I'd have an engineer working with them until things were perfect.

                                                                   

                                                                  Good luck,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 30. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                    Sorry I misled you.... I do understand what a CODEC is.  What I don't understand is why PE has such a hard time with video (a series of still images) that my PC can display successfully.

                                                                     

                                                                    Paul,

                                                                     

                                                                    Either you still do not get it, or have skipped over what I just posted. There is a great deal of difference between playing an AV file and editing it.

                                                                     

                                                                    I feel that I am just not making things clear for you, or that you have your mind made up otherwise.

                                                                     

                                                                    I've given you some topics to research, and can only suggest that you do so. Then, things might be more clear.

                                                                     

                                                                    I also do not understand what your problem with PrE is. You have found that Vegas does everything that you want. What's your point?

                                                                     

                                                                    Good luck,

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                    • 31. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                      You seem to be stuck on codecs, most people complaining are not concerned with what a codec is, just that their video editing is not working.  If they buy a program that says it can edit their HD video, it should. I think you may be way off with what the average consumer wants or thinks, many complaining here are average consumers and are saying they don't give a hoot about codecs, they want their program to work as Adobe sold it.

                                                                       

                                                                      If a person wishes to edit video, then they DO need to grasp what a CODEC is. It's the same with still photography. To say, "I don't want to know what ISO means, as it applies to photography," is limiting the user. Same could be said for DOF, and many other terms.That you do not want to know about CODEC's is another issue. Though it's complicated by the vast number, it is not an abstract concept.

                                                                       

                                                                      Good luck with your review,

                                                                       

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                      • 32. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                        Paul787 Level 3

                                                                        True, people should not have to learn about file formats and codecs, but with there being hundreds of various codecs out there, it is sometimes necessary. And if companies *really* built camcorders for editing, they wouldn't be releasing formats like AVCHD to the general public when few have computers with the proper hardware to edit it.

                                                                         

                                                                        Digital photography is easy as 99% of the photos taken center around the standardized JPEG format. But with video, and the near demise of miniDV camcorders, no such common standard at present exists.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                          paulgoelz Level 1

                                                                          Either you still do not get it, or have skipped over what I just posted. There is a great deal of difference between playing an AV file and editing it.

                                                                           

                                                                          I feel that I am just not making things clear for you, or that you have your mind made up otherwise.

                                                                           

                                                                          Neither is the case.  You are speaking in specifics and I am speaking in generalities. But there is no point in belaboring it....

                                                                           

                                                                          I've given you some topics to research, and can only suggest that you do so. Then, things might be more clear.

                                                                           

                                                                          They are already clear.

                                                                           

                                                                          I also do not understand what your problem with PrE is. You have found that Vegas does everything that you want. What's your point?

                                                                           

                                                                          Although it has no issues or quirks like PE, Vegas DOES NOT do everything I want.  It does not burn BD menus for one.  PE does.  Vegas does not automatically add chapter markers at clip boundaries.  PE does.  Those two items are dealbreakers for me except for one tiny point.... Vegas works and PE does not.  For HD, anyway.  So for now, I am using what works.

                                                                           

                                                                          As I said elsewhere in this thread, this forum seems to be the only way to get feedback to Adobe.  Tech support does not seem to be a viable conduit, regardless of what anyone from Adobe says.  And my philosophy is that if you don't speak up, you can't expect anything to get better.  Right now, if PE actually worked for projects as long as a DVD or BD disk, I'd be using it and I would not even have purchased Vegas.  If PE gets fixed soon, I'll use it again.  I have no issues with the GUI, just the fact that for HD it doesn't work very well.  But if Vegas adds BD with menus before PE gets fixed, that's it for me and PE.

                                                                           

                                                                          You have been most helpful here to me and to others and I don't want to argue with you about this.  It simply is what it is.

                                                                           

                                                                          Paul

                                                                          • 34. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                            Chad Baker Adobe Employee

                                                                            Paul,

                                                                             

                                                                            Ideally, our support system is the conduit you're talking about. Feedback from support is carried back to engineering, resulting in a better product. We've acknowledged publicly that our support level has been unacceptable in recent months, but that's the way it should work, and we're moving behind the scenes to get all of that back up and running effectively.


                                                                            I don't expect to fully restore your confidence in a couple forum posts, but I do want to let you know that we hear you, and we're working on it.

                                                                             

                                                                            Regards,

                                                                             

                                                                            Chad

                                                                            • 35. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              Chad,

                                                                               

                                                                              Thank you for your response.

                                                                               

                                                                              When one feels that they have encountered a real Bug in any Adobe products, I suggest that they report such via the Feature Request/Bug Report form. I have it on good faith that Adobe does pursue these reports. Feature requests are later prioritized for future inclusion in updates/upgrades. I also have it on good faith that Adobe will attempt to replicate any Bug report, and I urge users to furnish all possible detail, so that Adobe labs can do the replication and hopefully get a fix out. Is this still good advice?

                                                                               

                                                                              Now, amongst the users here (and in other product fora), we attempt to find the cause of a problem, and it usually sorts our this way:

                                                                               

                                                                              1.) System

                                                                              2.) Project (for video editors, or authoring software)

                                                                              3.) Assets

                                                                              4.) OE

                                                                              5.) Real Bugs in the programs.

                                                                               

                                                                              Still, there seem to be a few real Bugs in some Adobe software. This is not "breaking news," and some of these have been corrected, as what the case with PrPro CS4, until the CS4.1 update. Is this still the way that you see problems?

                                                                               

                                                                              Again, your comments are greatly appreciated. It feels comforting to see an Adobe presence in this, and other, forum.

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                                I don't want to argue with you about this

                                                                                 

                                                                                Paul,

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'd much rather help people with problems, if I can, than argue points on PrE. This is especially true, as I use PrPro for most of my work. I agree with this point, and will refrain from continuing.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I also agree that PrPro is not perfect. I file Feature Requests all of the time. Still, it does 99% of what I want, and the same is true for the companion authoring program, Encore. They are each great, though short of perfect - hence the Feature Request forms.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Thanks for your comments,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                • 37. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                                  jeffgedgaud Level 1

                                                                                  Thank you Chad, it's nice when a company publicly acknowledges something like this and can admit they fell behind in one area. I can understand how hard it is to admit a problem and your company has addressed that and is moving forward. I really have not seen an issue since starting this review as you have been here to at least aacknowledge an Adobe presence here in the forums and that the company is listening to users.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I also wanted to address soemthing the wine snob said:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  "If a person wants to edit video they need DO need to grasp what a CODEC is."

                                                                                   

                                                                                  This is utter hogwash, to use a nice term. No offense meant but I think you are wrong.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Installing Premiere Elements and importing video and editing it does not require any knowledge of what a CODEC is or even that it exists. I remember editing video when I first got a Panasonic camcorder using a simple Arcsoft editing program that came with the camera and had no clue what a CODEC was at the time.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I know for a fact there are people who routinely edit video using Movie Maker and other simple editing programs that do not need nor want to know more about the program other than it works. The problem here is not that we users don't understand about CODEC's, are using the wrong one, or need to run a file through a CODEC outside of Premiere Elements, we need a program that works in the first place like it should.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I do not want to get off base with arguments about CODEC's, I'm simply stating what others here have said and it does seem like the wine snob is getting off track with CODEC's. CODEC's are not the problem here, it's a program problem that is in the program itself. I should be able to input video and it should edit the video for most compatible cameras that are available today. If I can edit a file using several other simpler and less expensive programs and not in Premiere Elements than there is not a CODEC problem, there is a problem with the program. The other programs worked with the same video so obviously my computer has the right CODEC's otherwise they would not edit the video in the other programs.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I am not trying to say that I don't want to know or don't care about what a CODEC is, I shouldn't have to in order to use this program. I compare the box requirements to my system, I meet or exceed them so my system should be able to edit video from a compatible camera. Video from a camera that can work in less expensive and even free programs should easily work in Premiere Elements regardless of knowing what a CODEC is.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Please do not confuse the issue of CODEC's with a program that does not work as advertised for many. It seems to me that high definition video is the problem and the program may be a resource hog when it gets its hands on HD content. On my system when I even open a project that has HD videos the system pegs out the cores not only on a dual core but on a quad core processor. CODEC's would not be causing this.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thank you again Chad for the Adobe presence here.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Also a quick note to everyone who is having problems, I have been working with support as well as the forum here and they are going to take a look at my video clip directly from my camera to see if it works on their system. I sent it straight to them without editing and will see if they have a problem with it or what. I will be letting you know what happens here when I get some kind of answer.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Jeff

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                    "If a person wants to edit video they need DO need to grasp what a CODEC is."

                                                                                     

                                                                                    This is utter hogwash, to use a nice term. No offense meant but I think you are wrong.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Other than the double word "need," you are totally wrong. The CODEC is the building block of video, just as ISO is for still photographs. I feel that it your aversion to CODEC's, that is clouding your impressions. Also, maybe the word "need" does need to be repeated, just not as I had done.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    As has been belabored above, the CODEC is the keystone to AV files, and hence to editing. Whether one wishes to learn the rudiments of these, or wishes to sweep them under the carpet, is their own choice. Obviously one that you have made beforehand.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Installing Premiere Elements and importing video and editing it does not require any knowledge of what a CODEC is or even that it exists. I remember editing video when I first got a Panasonic camcorder using a simple Arcsoft editing program that came with the camera and had no clue what a CODEC was at the time.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Again, had you read, or understood, that was easy in an earlier time - back when DV-AVI from miniDV tape was the only real way to capture video footage, and then Capture it and edit it. Nowadays, there are many different CODEC's and how they work is very important. People want to do some form of capture of YouTube material and then edit it. People want to use programs like FRAPS, or Camtasia, and then edit the footage. People want to capture footage on various cell-phone cameras, or helmet cams and edit it. All of these are very different. They need to know what a CODEC is, how it impacts the prospects of editing the resultant footage, and what they can expect. To ignore this is foolishness, and will lead to problems, regardless of which NLE is chosen.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    An NLE can only contain certain capabilities, and adoption of newer technologies (read CODEC's here) takes some time and coding. In the case of Adobe, they must first decide if a new CODEC is likely to be a big enough part of their install-base to warrant the engineering efforts. All possibilities cannot be included. Some newer ones come out, after a program is released. Some need to be incorporated in an update. Two good examples of this are the RED CODEC's and the recent Panasonic Intra-Frame CODEC's. Both were included in the recent CS4 updates.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Why you have such aversion to CODEC's is beyond me. Again, they are the building blocks of AV files and editing. They've been around for over a decade, and will be around for more. Maybe it's time that you learn what they are, how they impact video playback, editing and then Export. To ignore them is an injustice to anyone reading your reviews. Again, were I to ignore Megapixels in a camera review, or DOF in a review of a lens, or system, or to ignore CODEC's in my reviews of an editing system, it would be a disservice to my readers.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Now, in a perfect world, every NLE would be able to natively edit all possible sources (read CODEC's here), and all that are likely to come about over the next decade. The world is not perfect. No NLE can possibly handle even the list of CODEC's that are available at this exact moment in time.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I do not want to get off base with arguments about CODEC's, I'm simply stating what others here have said and it does seem like the wine snob is getting off track with CODEC's.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Again, and in my defense, these are the building blocks of digital video. To think otherwise is shear folly. To ignore them is a disservice to the readers of any review. Now, many may wish that they did not exist, but they do. They are very important, whether some wish to acknowledge that, or not.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    What would you advise a user to do, should they have the TechSmith CODEC in a source file? What would you suggest, should someone hand you a RED CODEC file? What would you intimate would be a good workflow, should someone hand you a BlackMagic CODEC file? Same for Xvid, or DivX. Same for an Panasonic Intra-Frame CODEC. What would you suggest? Oh, I can guess that it would be, "ignore the CODEC, as they are meaningless." Is that correct?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The other programs worked with the same video so obviously my computer has the right CODEC's otherwise they would not edit the video in the other programs.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    And this proves that those other NLE's support the particular CODEC's, and that they are installed properly on your system. It does not mean that CODEC's are immaterial, as you have repeatedly suggested. The Adobe NLE's are based on a DV-AVI workflow. They make use of other CODEC's, but that does not render CODEC's moot, regardless of what you might contend. As I stated up-thread, I use CyberLink's PowerDirector for some footage, that PrE and PrPro cannot edit natively. I use that tool (and many more) to handle the CODEC's, and then Export to DV-AVI for final editing in my Adobe programs. This does not mean that the particular CODEC is immaterial, but that some NLE's either handle one better than others, or include native support for some. Adobe programs are often a bit more limited. Does this mean that they are dreck? Not in my book. I use these various programs as tools. My art comes from my camera, and my skills as an editor. I might need to use several "tools" to get me to where I can create.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Are the Adobe programs perfect? No. Do they do a good job with the proper footage and CODEC's? Yes, at least in my book. I've had the luxury of using many different NLE's, so I have a lot of experience with other NLE's. I also have extensive experience editing 16mm and 35mm film. Maybe that makes me so grateful for digital editing. That also allows me to open my mind to what it takes to do great work nowadays. I know how it was in the film-only days. One of my films was nominated for an Academy Award, and it was edited on a six-plate Moviola deck. I cannot imagine how much better that film would have been today, edited on an NLE with digital material. One will never know.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I am not trying to say that I don't want to know or don't care about what a CODEC is, I shouldn't have to in order to use this program. I compare the box requirements to my system, I meet or exceed them so my system should be able to edit video from a compatible camera. Video from a camera that can work in less expensive and even free programs should easily work in Premiere Elements regardless of knowing what a CODEC is.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    But that is exactly what you have said, over and over again. What you are failing to grasp is that digital video cannot exist without CODEC's. Why you choose this platform is lost on me. I've stated many examples outside of video CODEC's, but they have been lost on you.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Just to give you a bit of background, I have 393 CODEC's installed on my workstation, and 243  (266 now) on my laptop. Why? Most are to play various files with those CODEC's. Some are for just encoding, like the HuffYUV and Lagarith, so I can transport files in a lossless format between programs. Some are so that I can edit in various NLE's. Some of these, like RealMedia, Indeo and CinePak are for older AV material, that I still may have to use. I have 4 flavors of H.264, because all CODEC's are not created equally. I also only have CODEC's from the source, and no CODEC "packs," as I want the best that I can get for me, and for my clients. Amazing! If CODEC's were not important, why on Earth would I have 393 on my workstation and 266 on my laptop? Ignore them if you wish, but you are doing a great disservice to your readers. Still, that is you choice.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Please do not confuse the issue of CODEC's with a program that does not work as advertised for many. It seems to me that high definition video is the problem and the program may be a resource hog when it gets its hands on HD content.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Well, since most of the recent CODEC's are for HD material, I'm not sure how you propose to separate these.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Now, what Adobe's marketing department might state, all depends on the CODEC's involved. Maybe they should state that that some HD material will work perfectly, and that some will not. Again, this will depend on that evil word, "CODEC."

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Going back up-thread, I was taken to task, after commenting on what the "average" consumer wanted. The following statement was on what those, who DID want to edit their footage would want. That is but a small subset of the "average consumer." I find that disingenuous, at the very least. What the "average consumer" wants is to display their footage on their TV for their friends and family. The next group up wants to also post it to YouTube, or similar. Then, the next group wants to edit it - a subset of the main group. Would you not agree, now that I have broken thing out? Now, it is quite possible that a majority of your readers DO want to edit the footage, but would you not agree that a great number could care less about that aspect?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Good luck with your reviews. I hope that you are able to get PrE running on your system and can write about it. Only suggestion that I would make would be to use files that the majority of your readers are likely to use, and report on that.

                                                                                     

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                                                                                    • 39. Re: Premiere Elements 8 Unresponsive & Unusable
                                                                                      DolphMan

                                                                                      I had major problems and had to get a refund from Adobe.  My review can be found here:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/538518?tstart=60

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I hope they can get the program fixed as I would be very happy if it worked as advertised.

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