9 Replies Latest reply on Jan 21, 2010 12:14 PM by shooternz

    Thinking aloud about CS5

    Harm Millaard Level 7

      With the announcement that CS5 will be 64 bit only and with the sneek preview of MPE by Dennis and Dave, expectations and confusion are on the rise. Add to that the upcoming introduction of the i7-980X presumably at CEBIT in March and the question is, what lies ahead?

       

      This relates to hardware and timing. What is needed to profit from the latest and greatest and when?

       

      The four crucial developments are the i7-980X, aka Gulftown hexacore, CS5-64 and MPE or Cuda, and Tesla. Let's put them in perspective.

       

      1. i7-980X @ 3.33 GHz hexacore will lead to a 40-50% performance increase over the i7 at the same speed. Expected in Q1 2010.

       

      2. CS5-64. Further details unknown at this moment.

       

      3. CUDA cards are widely available, presumed entry level for MPE is GTX-285.

       

      4. TESLA C-2050 GPU assisted processor with 3 GB memory expected in Q2 and the C-2070 6 GB expected in Q3 2010.

       

      The first question is of course memory. What is needed? Is 12 GB enough? Will you benefit from 24 GB or even more?

      Let's be realistic, most motherboards only have 6 memory slots and with the extravagant pricing of 4 GB memory modules, most of us will be limited to 12 GB max. unless the price for 4 GB sticks comes down hard in the coming months. I do not expect that to happen.

       

      However, the memory bottleneck is nicely avoided by using 2 GB or larger video cards with CUDA, and adding a TESLA 3 or 6 GB card or even multiple TESLA cards make it even nicer. Just adding a single TESLA card effectively improves your memory to 12 + 2 + 6 = 20 GB. Adding a second TESLA card increases that to 20 + 6 = 26 GB.

       

      The consequence is that your motherboard requires at least three PCIe gen.2 16x slots to be efficient, like the Asus P6T WS Supercomputer.

       

      My conclusion is that the effective 12 GB barrier is not a real barrier if you can add one or more TESLA cards, assuming your motherboard supports it.

       

      On the hexacore i7-980X, it may be worthwhile if the budget is available, but a 4-5 fold price increase over an overclocked i7-920 makes it a hard sell to the Finance Director (your partner).

       

      What does this mean in terms of when CS5 will be introduced? The two most likely moments in the year are the NAB and the IBC but maybe because of the dependency on nVidia with their TESLA cards in combination with MPE, one should not be surprised if it will happen at the IBC 2010. Adobe may decide to wait for TESLA before announcing CS5.

        • 1. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
          joshtownsend Level 2

          About the multiple GPU's. Your assuming that SLI is gonna be supported in the future. It's not now any word on that? Gread stuff man.

           

          Also is the new intel CPU gonna be triple channel ram like the first i7's or duel channel like the newer ones?

          • 2. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
            Powered by Design Level 4

            Also Asus has come out with their new SATA III  6Gb/s & USB 3 motherboards.

             

            Next Gen 32nm 6-Core Processor Ready

             

            http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=wurRaDZ8lo4Ckukj

             

            When will we be getting 6Gb/s hard drives ?

             

            How will that help having faster hard drives Harm ?

             

            Dennis said no SLI

             

             

             

            Glenn

            • 3. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
              Harm Millaard Level 7
              Also is the new intel CPU gonna be triple channel ram like the first i7's or duel channel like the newer ones?

               

              John, X58 mobo's are triple channel.

               

              Glenn, I doubt that SATA3- 6 Gb/s ports will show a sizable improvement, especially with only 2 ports on that mobo. When we get new raid controllers based on SATA3 ML connectors with newer IOP chips than the 348, things might improve significantly, but I have not yet heard about this.

               

              The problem with the Gulftown capable X58 mobo's is that only 36 PCI lanes are supported, so you need a 16x PCIe slot for a CUDA video card and a single TESLA card used as an 8x slot and one 8x PCIe slot for a raid controller, using 32 of the available 36 lanes. This also means that P55 mobo's are completely unsuitable for hexacore CPU's, triple channel memory, TESLA use and a raid controller, since it simply lacks the PCI lanes.

               

              SLI is different than the combo CUDA/TESLA I think, but maybe Dennis or Dave can tune in and give us some more background.

              • 4. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Harm,

                 

                Thanks for thinking. Interesting possible developments.

                 

                Appreciated,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                  Curt Wrigley Level 4

                  joshtownsend wrote:

                   

                  About the multiple GPU's. Your assuming that SLI is gonna be supported in the future. It's not now any word on that? Gread stuff man.

                   

                  Also is the new intel CPU gonna be triple channel ram like the first i7's or duel channel like the newer ones?

                  I believe Dennis answered this in the other thread; no SLI support initially.  In fact his Blog indicates 3 specific cuda cards that will initially be supported.

                  • 6. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    SLI support is not required to fully use TESLA. It would be better with SLI support though.

                    • 7. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                      Simon Hayhurst

                      Future versions of Premiere Pro and After Effects will indeed be 64 bit only --- and we're working hard to make sure that if you add more RAM we can use it effectively. You can already load 32GB or more in high end Macs and HP workstations for example.

                       

                      But, in the lab we also test extensively on laptops ..... well under the 12GB number being thrown about here. My Mac laptop has 8GB, but I don't need all of that for a lot of what I'm playing with.

                       

                      What will work optimally depends a lot on what you want to do ..... a couple of layers of editing in HDV, no dynamic link to AE and you get one kind of spec ---- many layers of RED 4K, dynamic link to AE, photoshop and illustrator running .....  and you get a very different profile.

                       

                      Rest assured though --- we're working hard to make sure that simple things run well on affordable systems --- but that at the same time, if you happen to be working on higher end projects with a beefy system you get a whole new level of performance.

                       

                      The Mercury Playback Engine in the labs right now is being tested most with nVidia GTX 285,  Quadro 3800, Quadro 4800. That should give you a good idea of the kind of cards that will give you a game changing experience in the future.

                      • 8. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                        Curt Wrigley Level 4

                        What I like about this design is that it is essentially  user scalable.

                         

                        The same sw with the same capabilities can be used on a lower end desktop or laptop, or on your high end studio ws loaded mem and high end a GPU card to get the same capabilites but with exponetial performance.  And; the investment made in the HW is not spent Only on Adobe apps.  That same HW will likely be helpful in whatever other SW you run.

                         

                        We no longer need to buy third party accleration boards aimed specifically at Pr which typically only work for one sw generation (or work only with a handful of propriatary effects)  Exception: Boards with ports for analog input.

                         

                        I believe this is a great plan.  If it works as advertised perhaps Pr will finally be appropriate and accepted for long form projects.

                        • 9. Re: Thinking aloud about CS5
                          shooternz Level 6

                          Thanx for the informative thread and the info Harm

                           

                          This is very helpful as I progress to a new 64bit NLE machine which I hope to coincide with CS5 release whenever.

                           

                          One point I would add is that in all the iterations of Premiere Suites..I have never had the "state of the art" hardware running it but I have always had a lot of success with running the applications productively and have managed to avoid hardware issues.

                           

                          Basically I have built a new high spec system for each version with a degree of version overlap.  (ie CS3 and CS4 on same machine currently with CS2 & CS3 on others.) but there has always been a higher spec available.