23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 22, 2009 5:23 AM by perfectchord

    Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound

    mgossman

      I have spent hours on this stone-simple editing job, a practical application but mainly my first effort on Premiere Pro

      editing.

       

      Imported into a new Project an .avi file from my Casio EX-Z750 camera. Video is 640x480, 44 KHz Mono, 29 fps.

       

      Trimmed in the source preview window (removing the first few seconds) and then dragged into the sequence. Video drops into Video 1 and audio drops into Audio4 (as mono audio).

       

      I then confirm in the sequence preview that all is correct. I select the sequence in the Project panel, select "Export... Media..." under File, and have tried a variety of export formats. I have tried H.264, Youtube format, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and on and on and the same peculiar thing results:

       

      1. The rendered video has sound way out of sync, either starting too early or too late, with blank at the front or the back.

      2. Even stranger, in the Premiere Pro program, the imported original video now plays completely out of sync as does the Sequence preview.

       

      Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong are welcomed! I wonder if there is something peculiar about the format of video that is being spit out of my Casio that is causing the problem and I have to do some sort of conversion to be able to work with it.

       

      Mitch

        • 1. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Try a consumer application for that stuff like WMM or Magix,or use a real video camera, or just watch the stuff that was not intended for editing or convert to an editable format.

          • 2. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
            mgossman Level 1

            What would be an editable format? I realize this is a humble project but a video from a camera with MP4 video capability is a lot better than a larger "real" video camera at home.

            • 3. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Editable would be HDV, XDCAM, DVDProHD, AVCHD for HD or MS DV AVI type2 for SD.

               

              MP4 is highly compressed and nothing you do can get the quality back to where it was before compression. MP4 is far from ideal for editing. And a digital still camera should be used for stills, not for video. Do you use your phone to drive you from A to B or your car? Do you use a hammer when you need to drill a hole in the wall? Use the right tool for the job.

              • 4. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                mgossman Level 1

                The manual for the camera, which created this video, says the format is "MPEG-4 AVI Format". Is this a format that cannot be edited natively in Premiere Pro? From what I understand, one of the features of the package is the ability to be able to do this.

                 

                The extremely weird thing is that I can understand there may be something I am doing wrong in attempting to render out a sequence, resulting in out-of-sync sound due to settings being wrong somewhere (which I have not yet figured out) but the sequence and the original source sounds are screwed up right after the Adobe Media Encoder run completes. While this is encoding, I can go back to Premiere and view them normally, but as soon as the rendering is done, they are wrong with audio out of sync, such as shifted 5 seconds or so from the video.

                 

                What worries me is, I have a lot of video in this format. Is there a free converter that you would suggest to convert video, hopefully with minimal loss of quality, to a format that would be editable without bugs?

                 

                Mitch

                • 5. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                  mgossman Level 1

                  Actually the quality when viewed on the computer or a DVD from the MP4 format from this particular camera is not too bad, and as I said it is far better than nothing. If I can figure out a way to edit this video the quality would be fine. Of course, the reason for the compression is to be able to have quite a lot of video on a simple 2GB memory card.

                   

                  Mitch

                  • 6. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Mitch,

                     

                    This is not meant to sound condescending, but help us to help you. Detail all of your steps and tell us where you have trouble and what exactly you did.

                     

                    Some suggestions

                     

                    MP4-AVI means exactly nothing, other than that is resembles a 20 foot container, fully stuffed with goods. Whether that is scrap metal, toxic chemicals, diapers, food, or whatever else gets shipped in a 20 foot container we don't know. But for editing it is all about the contents of that container. So help us help you by reading the above link and all the included links carefully and answer the 16 questions posed at the end of the Wiki article.

                    • 7. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                      mgossman Level 1

                      It appears there is something funny about the MP4 video created by some still cameras with their movie mode, such as my very own Casio:

                       

                      http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/guide.htm

                       

                      This is supposed to correct this problem and make the video editable. In fact, this allowed me to edit and render the desired video (with the simple trim from the start of the video) but when going back to Premiere Pro the audio track of the original resource as imported AND the playback of the sequence is all jumbled.

                       

                      Wish I knew someone who could watch this take place. Clearly there's something very undesirable about the particular video format I have to work with here.

                       

                      Mitch

                      • 8. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                        Powered by Design Level 4

                        You dont say what version of Premiere you are using ?   CS3 - CS4 ?

                         

                        There is a great video on the Adobe TV channel about camera video.

                         

                        http://tv.adobe.com/watch/davtechtable/using-the-flip-hd-and-other-pocket-usb-cameras-with -premiere-pro-cs4-/

                         

                        Watching that video will help you set up the project to play better.

                         

                         

                        Enjoy:  Glenn

                        • 9. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                          mgossman Level 1

                          I have attached a random very brief video segment if a good samaritan is willing to review its properties to see what needs to be done to edit it.

                           

                          That is a very good video by Dave Helmly... unfortunately it did not help with my peculiar format from my Casio EX-Z750 camera. Maybe this will help, the behavior I see about this video file are:

                           

                          1. It does not appear in the Media Browser on Premiere Pro (CS4 version) so apparently it is not being recognized as a valid video?

                          2. The data from the Properties is:

                                  File Path: C:\Users\Mitch Laptop\Desktop\Jack.avi
                                 Type: AVI Movie
                                 File Size: 9.8 MB
                                 Image Size: 640 x 480
                                 Pixel Depth: 0
                                 Frame Rate: 29.96
                                 Source Audio Format: 44100 Hz - 16 bit - Mono
                                 Project Audio Format: 44100 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Mono
                                 Total Duration: 00;00;20;22
                                 Average Data Rate: 484 KB / second
                                 Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
                          3. Mind you, this is a video file that is supposedly in Mpeg-4 format directly from my pocket camera so I am confused. It has the .avi suffix when transferred from the SD card, however. I made a ham-handed effort to fix this, after viewing Dave Helmly's video, to change the extension to ".mp4" but this did not work - would not import into Premiere at all. At least when in ".avi" suffix it will import.

                          4. I just tried making a sequence with the 44.1 KHz audio and 29.97 frame rate, but the closest I can come are DV NTSC sequences with 720x480 resolution as opposed to this video's 640x480 resolution, and dragging the file into the sequence displays the red line indicating incorrect compatibility of video type (just learned this from the video). This results in rendering a video with audio hopelessly out of sync.

                          5. After running this video through this software:

                          http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4cam2avi/

                          ... Which is supposed to correct the video from this very camera to be editable, it will render properly but then (as described above) the original video in the preview window and even the sequence preview window have messed up audio sync!

                           

                          Mitch

                          • 10. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Here's what G-Spot has to say about that test file:

                             

                            CIMG3604_G-Spot.jpg

                             

                            Hope that this helps,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              As a test, I converted the file to DV-AVI Type II in DigitalMedia Converter, and it Imported and played fine in PrPro 2.0. It was a bit too short to determine if the Audio was in good sync with the Video, but the pops seemed to be.

                               

                              Interesting that WMP played the original file fine, but QTPro 7.5.5 hung, saying that I needed some component. However, it would not go to the normal Apple page with the add-ons.

                               

                              Just some observations,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Obviously, correcting OOS (Out Of Sync) is desired, but if not possible, this ARTICLE will give you tips on correcting it. If the OOS is constant, and not dynamic, things are quite easy. With dynamic OOS (drifting), much more work is required.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                  Powered by Design Level 4

                                  The video is to short to tell if its out of sync but here is a screen shot of the new sequence settings.

                                   

                                  Dont use the presets- click general and set them to your camera settings.

                                  picture075-new-sequence.jpg

                                  I placed it on the timeline and rendered half the video and got a green line.

                                   

                                  picture077.jpg

                                   

                                  Maybe try those settings to see if it works.

                                   

                                  It also showed and played from my media browser.

                                   

                                  Hope this helps:  Glenn

                                  • 14. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    And notice Glenn's first screen-cap. The Editing Mode is Desktop, which allows one to set the parameters and attributes of the footage in a Custom configuration.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                      mgossman Level 1

                                      Just tried it, see screenshot, all settings the same and still I get the "red line", and tried rendering and received the same audio issues. For some reason when looking at the Sequence Properties, the horiz and vert dimensions are dimmed but trust me, they were set correctly when the settings were made (and I saved them as a preset).

                                       

                                      And again, extremely weird is that the original video (CIMG3604.avi in the screenshot) plays incorrectly with the sound at the beginning coming from the actual middle of the clip.

                                       

                                      Mitch

                                       

                                      ... addendum, just tried "Render entire work area" and got a green line but when exporting still get sound out of sync. Tried "AVI" and "H.264", both the same thing.

                                      • 16. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                        mgossman Level 1

                                        Glenn and all, here's a longer video so you can see what happens better and is less than the 5 MB max. Put this into a sequence and attempt to trim a few seconds from the beginning of the file using ripple-trim and then render, please let me know if the sound in the source, the sequence, and the rendered media are messed up as they are with mine. And enjoy the fireworks.

                                         

                                        Mitch

                                        • 17. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                          mgossman Level 1

                                          I seem to have found a workaround

                                           

                                          Though all this help, and some of my own efforts, but I'd like to have a better fundamental

                                          understanding of why this works, and if there is a better way.

                                           

                                          I took the original file from the camera (GSpot attached - file name is "Jack.avi") and washed it through the software program MP4Cam2AVI_v2.83 which as you can see at this link is supposed to created a video file that is editable:

                                          http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4cam2avi/

                                           

                                          This produces a file "VideoOut.avi" which has the same GSpot numbers (also attached) with the exception of the Codec which is DivX.

                                           

                                          This works fine with Premiere Pro 4.0 in CS4 as long as you set the Sequence parameters the same as the source material (via Desktop and setting things to 640 x 480, 29.97 fps, and 44.1 KHz sound).

                                           

                                          So far I have been able to do editing, but have only done so after executing a "Menu... Sequence.... Render entire work area" command which causes that red line to go green on the Sequence.

                                           

                                          I am in the dark as to:

                                           

                                          1. Why editing the material directly from the camera results in such woeful results upon not only the resultant audio but also somehow screws up the source material audio. Is there some part that I do not have installed on my computer that would in fact allow this to happen? Someone else had no trouble with his computer apparently - but that was with the very short clip which might not make the problems visible.

                                           

                                          2. What that program is doing to the video to render it editable - perhaps just repackages it using a different Codec.

                                           

                                          Does anyone happen to know the email address of Dave Helmly, proprietor of this blog and can either provide it or direct him to this thread?

                                          http://blogs.adobe.com/davtechtable/

                                          He is also the creator of this video:

                                          http://tv.adobe.com/watch/davtechtable/using-the-flip-hd-and-other-pocket-usb-cameras-with -premiere-pro-cs4-/

                                           

                                          Someone previously mentioned him, obviously he knows much on this subject, perhaps he can enlighten me and all other sufferers in the future. I posted a comment on his blog directing him to this thread, perhaps he will notice it.

                                           

                                          Especially with Christmas coming, this may be of interest to many. I suppose I may have a camera not in huge use any longer. (Next project is working with iPhone videos, I see he has some videos on that, too.)

                                           

                                          Mitch

                                          • 18. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            DivX is lousy to edit. Use a different converter that will deliver DV AVI type2.

                                            • 19. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              I agree on DivX. It is a delivery-only CODEC and is not suitable for good editing, if one can edit it at all. As Harm points out, the material will be heavily compressed, loosing much quality. It does fine for streaming media, where one wants small file sizes and pretty good quality, but its ediability is horribly limited. Most NLE's will not touch it. Most often, one gets Audio, but no Video, or the opposite, or a hanging Video, or at the best, major sync issues, and that does not take the quality hit into account.

                                               

                                              There must be other CODEC's that will work for you in that conversion program. Almost any other would be better than DivX, or Xvid.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                Use a different converter that will deliver DV AVI type2.

                                                 

                                                That was exactly what I did with DigitalMedia Converter, mentioned above. There are many others that are free, that do a good job with the DV-AVI Type II conversion. It worked fine for me in the test with the short piece.

                                                 

                                                To the OP, good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                                  mgossman Level 1

                                                  I did previously download Digital Media Converter Pro (trial version 3.06) but nothing with these attributes )DV-AVI type II) jumps out at me, see screen shot below. Trial and error with various encodings and settings fail every time. Am I using the wrong program, am I missing something extra on my computer to enable me to do what you do? The video produced shows the overlay of course, free software to do this task is preferable but I am williing to part with some $ if I find something that works. The previously mentioned free product that yielded the DivX encoded video does work, but would rather use what you experts feel is better in terms of quality and speed.

                                                   

                                                  Mitch

                                                  • 22. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    I did previously download Digital Media Converter Pro (trial version 3.06) but nothing with these attributes )DV-AVI type II) jumps out at me, see screen shot below.

                                                     

                                                    You have to go into the settings, as AVI is too general and DMC will use any possible AVI CODEC that you have installed. You want MS DV, or DVC, and then check that the Audio is 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV (Uncompressed).

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: Stone simple editing job fails, results in out-of-sync sound
                                                      perfectchord

                                                      I have been having similar problems importing video from a Vivitar 840HDX camera (all formats, stored as AVI).  My workaround was a bit crude but it allowed me to move forward without too much pain while waiting for a good solution.  Here's what happened and what I did ...

                                                       

                                                      Imports to Premiere Pro CS4 Extended would crowd all of the video at the front of the clip, with last frame persisting from ~20% to the end - audio was OK.  No setting seemed to afect this.

                                                       

                                                      I opened the clip in VirtualDub and regenerated the AVI with NO AUDIO and just streamed the source video to the dest video, unaffected.  This is very fast.  Next re-open the original clip AND the regenerated clip in PP and lock the audio from the original and shrink the video to one frame.  Then just use the regenerated video as the source.  A bit clumsy, but as I said it works and allows me to continue editing.

                                                       

                                                      I guess the problem is somehow related to how the audio and video are interleaved.  No codec seemed to help either.

                                                       

                                                      Let me know if anyone has a simpler (i.e. one-step) process.