17 Replies Latest reply on Dec 24, 2009 7:31 AM by the_wine_snob

    Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?

    99JEFFG11

      Hi everyone,

       

      I have been cutting up an avi file into clips and re-arranging those clips. I am now putting transitions between the clips. I am having an issue where the transition between the 2 clips is showing another clip during the transition! It appears to be random as to what clip gets inserted into a transition between the intended 2 clips. It has the effect of making the transition using 3 clips. What am I doing wrong or how can I resolve this issue?

       

      Thanks,

       

      Jeff

        • 1. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Jeff,

           

          Please tell us the full details on your source footage. The only time I have seen such was with MPEG GOP files. If needed, you can use the free utility, G-Spot, to get full details.

           

          Now, are you certain that the "third Clip" is from another Clip, or is it the added last frame from the two Clips, due to a lack of Handles on those Clips?

           

          Can you post a screen-cap of the Timeline w/ the CTI (Current Time Indicator w/ the Edit Line) on the junction of the Clips, plus a view of the Program Monitor? That might help, along with the answer to the question above.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
            Missteach Level 1

            A shot in the dark here.  Have you inadvertently used'Instant Movie' setting?

            • 3. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
              99JEFFG11 Level 1

              Hi Wine Snob,

               

              I'm not famimliar with handles.  Can you elaborate?

               

              I have attached an image of my work area.  It shows the 2 scenes in the scene view - one clip of trees and the other clip of train tracks.  As you will see there is a third clip embedded in the transition of a girl in a chair.

               

              This third clip was not recorded anywhere near the time of the other 2 clips in the sequence of the avi file.  Thus in this example there is not a chance it is a last or first frame left in one of the other 2 clips.

               

              I went to the G-Spot website.  What is it?

               

              Thanks for your help!

              • 4. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                99JEFFG11 Level 1

                Hi Wodehouse,

                 

                I started the project using "New Project" button when the program launches.  This is the same screen where I could have pushed "Instant Movie", which I did not.

                 

                Thanks,

                 

                Jeff

                • 5. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  This is odd behavior. Exactly where is the Clip of the girl in your Sceneline/Timeline?

                   

                  Can you switch to Timeline and do one more screen-cap? Maybe something there will click. Also, toggle your Video Track Display to show all Frames for this. Leave the CTI where it is now.

                   

                  As for Handles, these should explain them:

                   

                  Handles_01.jpg

                  Handles_02.jpg

                   

                  G-Spot is a freeware utility for gathering all file info from AV files. It shows about every possible aspect of a file, including the Video and Audio CODEC's used, plus almost everything else. It is probably the most recommended utility on the Adobe fora, at least by me.

                   

                  Even if it does not yield any clue to this problem, you'll use it quite often, especially if you need to Import material that you did not shoot, or if you get a new camera, to see all of the attributes of the AV files.

                   

                  Good luck, and we'll be looking for that other screen-cap. Hope that something pops up and leads to a solution for you.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                    99JEFFG11 Level 1

                    Hi Hunt,

                     

                    Attached is the timeline shot I think you were looking for.

                     

                    I also included a timeline from the transition edit window.

                     

                    Thanks!

                    • 7. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      On the Timeline View screen-cap, can you scroll to the Video Track 1, assuming that is where the Clips are located.

                       

                      You mention that the image of the little girl is much farther along the Timeline. About how far?

                       

                      It appears that you are using the Doors Transition. Is that correct?

                       

                      I still cannot imagine how a Frame, or Frames, from farther along the Clip is getting into this shot. Odd behavior.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                        99JEFFG11 Level 1

                        What is "Video Track 1"?  Do you mean the first clip of the 2 which are next to each other in the timeline?

                         

                        The clip with the girl in it is actually the first clip in the movie. However, other transitions have other random clips in them without any apparent rhyme or reason.

                         

                        Yes, I am using the doors transition. I used that specific transition as an example for this forum. I will use something like cross dissolve in the real video but it's harder to visually show a dissolving transition in a jpeg.

                         

                        Pretty weird uh?  I'm almost at the point where I start over from scratch!!!

                        • 9. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          In the Timeline View Mode, you Timeline is structured vertically as Video & Audio Tracks, plus the Soundtrack and Narration Track, which are fixed. The Video & Audio Tracks are grouped by number, i.e. Video & Audio Track 1, Video & Audio Track 2, etc. In the Timeline View Mode screenshot that you uploaded, the focus was on the Soundtrack, and not the Video & Audio Tracks above (via the scroll bar). These Tracks are where your Clips are located. If the Clips have attached (muxed) Audio, as well as the Video, they will be on one set of Video & Audio Tracks.

                           

                          Here is a look at the PrE Timeline. Pay attention to the annotations in red.

                           

                          PrE_Timeline_01.jpg

                           

                          Hope that this helps explain the Timeline View Mode a bit more.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                            99JEFFG11 Level 1

                            Hi Hunt,

                             

                            Ahhh, now I understand!  I have included an updated 2 images of that.  One is really zoomed in to get a clear view of the frames.

                             

                            Thanks!

                            • 11. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Thank you.

                               

                              Let's go back up to G-Spot. You asked a question, and I did not answer that, nor did I do any follow up.

                               

                              First, G-Spot is a wonderful, little freeware utility for determining what the full details are, for almost any AV file. Since .AVI is but a "wrapper," almost anything can be inside that file. This ARTICLE will give you some background, plus give you a few little tips on G-Spot.

                               

                              Please run some of your .AVI files through it, and tell us what G-Spot says about the .AVI files in your Timeline.

                               

                              We've got the Timeline down, thanks to your work, now let's also look at the .AVI files, hoping to find some clues.

                               

                              As I said up-thread, I have only seen spurious Frames, with some MPEG files. Because they are in the GOP (Group of Pictures) format, and are not all I-frames, they can act up, when edited. A DV-AVI Type II is ALL I-frames, so there is a full Frame for each Frame of the AV file - that's why they are much larger files. I'm thinking that your AVI's might have some CODEC that is also GOP, but that is just a theory, and your G-Spot info will either prove, or disprove that theory.

                               

                              Sorry for all of the questions, but the behavior that you describe is odd, at best, so I may be grasping at straws trying to get to the bottom of this.

                               

                              Good luck, and thanks for your efforts, plus the requested info.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                99JEFFG11 Level 1

                                Hi Hunt,

                                 

                                I put the file in G-Spot and have included a screen shot of the results.

                                 

                                Typically when I work with a mini-DV tape I import the tape using Premiere. However, with this tape I imported the tape using a default windows import option which pops up when you connect the camera. I suppose one option for me is to re-import the tape through Premiere.

                                 

                                Thanks,

                                 

                                Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  OK, this file is DV-AVI Type I, instead of the better Type II, but other than max size available and some potential OOS (Out Of Sync) issues, Type I's usually do not cause such issues. That blows my MPEG theory out of the water, and also any GOP conflict.

                                   

                                  As a test, I would Capture that Clip in PrE, where you will get a DV-AVI Type II, replace the Type I and see if things sort out. This is an odd one, and considering the source footage, one that I have never seen, nor even heard of.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                   

                                  PS - you should be able to do a Save_As for your Project, maybe add "Test" to the file name, close PrE, go to the folder where the Type I is located and move it to another folder for safety. Then Open a New Project in PrE, to do the Capture. Capture the same parts of the tape, just as was done in WMM (or similar), using the same file name. Then, move that resultant Type II to the folder where the original file was located. Check that the name is exactly the same. Then, Open that "test" Project to see if PrE will just link to the new Type II file. Should work, provided that all other aspects are the same.

                                  • 14. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                    99JEFFG11 Level 1

                                    Hi Hunt,

                                     

                                    I'm going to take a break for a couple of days due to Christmas events. I plan on re-importing the mini-DV and starting over. I'll give your idea a try to see if I can save all my hard work!

                                     

                                    I truly appreciate your assistance. I'll report back on how things worked out.

                                     

                                    Happy Holidays!

                                     

                                    Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Jeff,

                                       

                                      I'll be looking for a report of your success. There are some variables in my suggestion, that revolve around file sizes and specs.. Still, if we get lucky, you'll nail it, with almost nothing lost.

                                       

                                      Have the happiest of Holidays and a very Merry Christmas!

                                       

                                      Thanks for your work on this problem. Sorry that there were so many questions, and requests.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                        99JEFFG11 Level 1

                                        It was bugging me so much I had to give it a try. Unfortunately, the same issues even with a new file imported using Adobe! I suspect that the adobe mapping of the video to the clips is somehow messed up. I did a lot of cutting, changing the order of clips and adding transitions. Maybe the program couldn't cope?

                                        • 17. Re: Why are many of my transitions between 2 clips inserting a random third clip?
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Sorry to hear the results. This is a puzzle, and there has to be a piece missing. Unfortunately, I don't even know what that piece looks like.

                                           

                                          We've ruled out Handles, file type (Type 1 vs Type 2), no MPEG involved. That crosses off two of "usual suspects," as I did not hold out that much hope on the Type 1 thing, but it was worth the effort.

                                           

                                          BTW - are the problem Frames the exact same in this test too, or have those been replaced by other problem Frames?

                                           

                                          How long is the Duration of the "master Clip," in this case? Will it fit on a 4.7GB DVD-Data? Since the exact cutting that you're doing, doesn't seem to matter much, I'd be glad to cut it up, and use the same Transitions that you are, just to see what I get. If you can snail mail a DVD-Data disc to me, I'd be happy to use your instructions and give it a go. Right now, that's about the best that I can offer at this point. I'll keep thinking, but am stumped right now. If you can do it, and are so inclined, you can PM me and we'll set things up.

                                           

                                          Good luck, and enjoy your Christmas and all of the Holidays!

                                           

                                          Hunt