19 Replies Latest reply on Dec 29, 2009 3:32 PM by the_wine_snob

    Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV

    Finnkai2

      Hi.  I've just completed my first Premiere Elements 7 project - a 75 min DVD home movie as a Christmas present for brother and his family.

       

      At the end of the process I successfully added a disc menu with Main Menu and 4 Screen Menus.  These all worked fine in the Preview.

       

      I then burned a DVD successfully and played it on my DVD player attached to my TV.  It opened on the Main Menu screen but, try as I might, I couldn't get the cursor control to select any of the buttons.  No indication of a cursor appeared whereas there should have been an orange splat next to he selected button.

       

      When I pressed "Play" the disc played perfectly and when I pressed "Chapter advance" it correctly jumped to the next scene marker.

       

      I then tried playing the DVD on my PC and here the disc menu worked fine.

       

      Does anyone have an idea about what the problem could be?  Is it possible that my DVD player doesn't recognise the Premiere Elements menu for some reason (although the player has worked fine with menus on commercial DVDs)?  My DVD player is a Panasonic DVD Recorder Model DMR-EX78EB.

       

      Grateful for any ideas.  Thanks

        • 1. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Not all DVD players are fully compatible with home-burned DVDs, Finnkai. It could be that yours is capable of playing the disc, but not compatible enough to work the navigation. (Since you could work the navigation on your computer, you know the disc is coded right.)

           

          Give it a try on a friend's DVD player and see if it's still a problem. If it isn't, you know it's just your DVD player.

           

          You can improve your chances your discs will work by using quality discs (Verbatim are some of the best; Memorex are some of the worst) and by burning at no more than 8x speed (or the max speed listed on the disc).

          • 2. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Steve makes very good points. No DVD player is certified to play any burned DVD-Video discs. Most do just fine, but some just do not. They are only certified to play commercially replicated pressed DVD-Videos, hence that DVD logo displayed.

             

            Along with the rec. on high quality blank media (Vertabim and Taiyo Yuden are as good as it gets), some find that the burn speed can have an impact too. PrE will choose the fastest write speed, based on the exact media used, and the capabilities of the burner. For PrE, the trick is to buy a lower speed rated blank media, say an 8x, in lieu of a 16x.

             

            One way around the burn speed issue, should it be an issue, would be to Burn to Folder from PrE to your HDD, and then use the freeware burning utility, ImgBurn, to do the physical burning to disc, again using the best media available. In ImgBurn, one can set the burn speed. Going down to about 1/2 of the max has helped many, where their DVD players did not like burned DVD-Videos.

             

            However, due to the differences in the processes between burning a DVD and having one replicated with a glass master and pressed in a replication house, some players will just flat not play a burned DVD-Video properly.

             

            Also, some players, especially older ones, are very sensitive to the type of media, -R vs +R. This is less of a problem nowadays, but still some older models handle one, or the other, better.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
              Finnkai2 Level 1

              Thanks for the very quick responses.

               

              I burned the movie to Infiniti 16X DVD+R discs.  So will try playing on another machine and if unsuccessful will then burn first to folder and use a different program to do a slower burn to disc as suggested.  If either works will update this post.

               

              Thanks again.

              • 4. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                I was not familiar with the Infiniti media, but THIS REVIEW indicates that it uses the same dye as Verbatim, and is good media with few errors.

                 

                It appears that the testing was done at the max burn speed for each of the five test devices.

                 

                Good luck on the testing on a different DVD player.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                  Finnkai2 Level 1

                  Ok.  So I first tried my DVD on a different player.  This didn't show any cursor symbol as I tried to navigate the menu but by chance I did manage to get from Main Menu to Scenes Menu - but again no cursor showing as I tried to move between them.

                   

                  I then tried the alternative "burn to folder" and used Imgburn at 4X to burn all the material (ie both the OpenDVD and VIDEO_TS folders, I evem added an empty AUDUO_TS folder at the suggestion of an Imgburn guide) onto a new DVD. 

                  (I hope this was right).  The DVD burned successfully and I tried again on my TV DVD player but alas, still no cursor to allow me to use the menus.

                   

                  I guess I'm just going to have to put up without menus unless perhaps trying a different type of disc works.

                  • 6. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    First, the AUDIO_TS folder. It is a holdover for a discontinued DVD-Audio format. Some older set-top players do still look for it, though most newer players do not. If one has an older set-top player, the addition of the empty AUDIO_TS folder might well be the cure.

                     

                    Now, set-top players do not have a cursor. A DVD-Video software player on a computer will. On a set-top player, the lack of a cursor is covered by the Sub-picture Highlights on each Button. These indicate which Button has been navigated to. These will differ Menu Template to Menu Template.

                     

                    Hope that this helps,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                      Finnkai2 Level 1

                      Hunt

                       

                      Thanks again and a Happy Christmas!

                       

                      I wonder if there is a clue in this missing "cursor".  I appreciate DVD Players, unlike PCs, to not have a cursor showing the mouse position but instead show which menu item is "selected" in another way - e.g. by highlighting the item or having some marker appear next to it.  When I "preview" my DVD in Premiere Elements, I see a splat mark against the menu item and can move this using the simulated DVD Player controls.  However, when I play the DVD vis my actual player connected to the TV the menu items appear but no "splat marker".  So I can't select a menu item.

                       

                      Is it possible something is missing on the burned DVD that is necessary to create this marker?

                      • 8. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        That "splat" is the Sub-picture Highlight, which is a Layer in the .PSD file (the Menu) in each Button's Layer Set. In a DVD software player on a computer, the user will have both the mouse cursor, plus the Button's Sub-picture Highlight to identify the Button, when moused-over, or selected. On a DVD set-top player, they will only have the Sub-picture Highlight to indicate which Button has been selected, prior to activation.

                         

                        Now, if you are not getting the Sub-picture Highlight, then something is wrong. It is most likely in the Menu's Layer structure, but could also be in the burned DVD media. What brand of blank media are you using?

                         

                        Did you modify the Menu Template in any way, say in Photoshop/Photoshop Elements? If so, what modifications did you make?

                         

                        BTW - which Menu Template did you use? Maybe there is something wrong with that Template.

                         

                        Also, note that not all set-top players will do well with any burned DVD's. They are certified to play commercial, replicated DVD-Videos, but some will just not work properly with any burned DVD's.

                         

                        Also, by the DVD-specifications, Sub-picture Highlights can ONLY be 2-bit color, though they can also have Transparency. They cannot have any Effects, drop-shadow, etc., and will always appear on top of any graphics. This throws many people, who try to modify them. That is why I asked about any attempts to modify the Menu Templates. It's all too easy to mess up the Sub-picture Highlights, as they are so tightly defined. Remember, this is not a limitation of PrE (though it does a lot of the authoring in a semi-automatic way), but of the DVD-specs., i.e. all authoring programs must adhere to these, to get a 100% DVD-compliant disc.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          The FAQ, linked to in this ARTICLE, will tell you everything that you would ever want to know about the DVD-specs.

                           

                          Good luck, and hope that this helps,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                            Finnkai2 Level 1

                            In answer to your questions:

                             

                            I am using Infiniti DVD-R media.

                            So Far as I am aware I didn't modify the template (except by typing in titles and turning menu item buttons into still images from the film using the poster frame/thumbnail offset option).

                            The Premiere template I'm using is "Adventure" from PE7.

                             

                            As you explained the "splat" image should appear as a .psd file in the menu, I thought I would investigate the files in the folder created when I used the "burn to folder" option.

                             

                            The OpenDVD folder has a sub-folder called "Sources", 2 files called "opendvd.ptm" and ClickMe.htm.

                             

                            "Souces" contains a folder called "VTS_01_1_VOB" and a set of 5 image files called "Menu_000.bmp" through to "Menu_004.bmp and another 5 called "Menu_000_SubPict.BMP" to "Menu_004_SubPict.BMP".  It also contains 5 files: "SPU_Apgc_Asf.spu" to "SPU_Epgc_Isf.spu" and 5 labelled: "Video_Apgc_Asf.mpg" to "Video_Epgc_Isf.mpg".

                             

                            I found I could look at the image (.BMP) files in Windows Picture Viewer.  Each of the Menu_000 etc files was the picture of a "Menu Screen" I had created in PE7.  However the "Menu_000_SubPict.BMP" files were all blank when opened.  I opened the "Video_Apgc_Asf.mpg" files in Windows Medai Player which showed each to be one (of the 5) pages of the menu screens.

                             

                            I did not know how to look at the other files.

                             

                            Do you think it is significant that each of the Menu_???_SubPict.bmp files is blank?

                             

                            Oh by the way, I have tried playing my burned disc on other DVD players with the same result (ie no ability to navigate menu).

                             

                            Thanks again for your help.

                            • 11. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              I had not heard of the Infiniti blank media until recently. I researched it and they use the same dyes that Verbatim does, so that is a good sign. The review found all errors to be well within the allowed.

                               

                              I'll look at your specific Menu, just to see if things work from it. I've only heard of one Menu giving people trouble, and that was several versions ago.

                               

                              Those .BMP files are just the Preview images, IIRC. The actual Menu files are .PSD's.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Just looked at Adventure from PrE 4 (my version) in PS and all looked good. The "splat" is on the Main Menu and there is a similar colored "zigzag" for the Scene Selection Buttons on the Scene Selection Menus.

                                 

                                Now, do the "splats" show on your Main Menu, regardless of which Button is selected, or just not show at all?

                                 

                                The only issue that I can recall with Sub-picture Highlights not showing up has been on certain Mac OS's, with Adobe Encore. This would not affect anything you are doing in PrE, as it was specific to some Mac OS's, and PrE is PC-only.

                                 

                                Having tested on several different set-top players pretty much indicates that it is not likely an issue with the burned DVD-Video, but something else that is happening in the authoring, or burning stage.

                                 

                                Since you have Burned to Folder, and have the Open DVD and VIDEO_TS folder there, can you first use a DVD software player to play from the VIDEO_TS folder, and if things work well there, then use the freeware burning utility, ImgBurn, to do the physical burn and test.

                                 

                                Hint: for testing purposes ONLY, you might want to pick up a pack of DVD RW discs, so you don't end up with a lot of "coasters."

                                 

                                Also, you have done your necessary DVD Markers, right?

                                 

                                Good luck, and maybe someone can look at the specific Adventure Menu Set from PrE 7. Still, I cannot believe that Adobe would change anything from the version in PrE 4.

                                 

                                I'll also do a test Project with the Adventure Menu Set and see if all goes well for me. This will have to be in PrE 4 though.

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  I took a test Project, and added the Adventure Menu set, allowing my Chapter Markers to be set automatically. I did the Burn to Folder and played the resulting VIDEO_TS (VIDEO_TS.ifo) in CyberLink PowerDVD. Everything worked perfectly, with each Button showing the appropriate Sub-picture Highlights. Remember, this was Adventure Menu Set from PrE 4.

                                   

                                  I then used ImgBurn to do the physical Burn to Disc, and the DVD RW played perfectly in two Marantz set-top players (different models).

                                   

                                  Not sure what is going on with your Project.

                                   

                                  The only modification that I did was changing the Title to "My Project" in PrE 4's Menu Editor and nothing in Photoshop.

                                   

                                  Sorry that I am out of ideas on why your Sub-picture Highlights are not "turning on," when navigated to via the set-top player's remote. Mine worked perfectly, and exactly as expected.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                    Finnkai2 Level 1

                                    Hunt

                                     

                                    I really appreciate the trouble you've gone to.  Thanks.

                                     

                                    I have now tried to do the same as you.  I created a "Test" project and just put a few clips into it and then got PE7 to set the scene markers automatically (didn't touch anything else and "burned" the Test project to a folder.  I used the Adventure menu template again.

                                     

                                    When I played the Video_TS.ifo file in Sonic Cineplayer I again got Main Menu which showed no Sub-picture highlights, although I could use my mouse to click on the "button" and play the movie.  The same player does show "highlights" when I use it to play another DVD.

                                     

                                    I guess the next step is to repeat with a different menu template.  I am more an more convinced that you are right: this is a problem with the material I am authoring in PE7, not a problem with my player or the disc media.  If other menu templates do the same, not sure where I go next.

                                    • 15. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                      If other menu templates do the same, not sure where I go next.

                                       

                                      Unfortunately, if you get the same behavior with another Menu Template Set, I am with you - I don't know where to go from here.

                                       

                                      I do have to admit that I am anything but an expert on using PrE for my authoring. I only do that for testing for others' problems. I use Adobe Encore, and everything in it is manual, and not semi-automatic, like in PrE.

                                       

                                      What I would suggest, if you still have issues with another Menu Template Set, would be to do a screen-cap of your Timeline, so that the Chapter Markers and Clips show clearly. Do another screen-cap of your Disc layout. This will allow others to study your Project's Timeline in hopes that they can find something that you and I are both missing. If the test Menu Template Set does the same thing, there has got to be something in the Project itself, but I cannot for my life imagine what that might be. Others, who use PrE much more than I do, will likely see the problem, and we'll both learn something.

                                       

                                      Good luck, and thank you for testing. Those screen-caps might hold the clue.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                        Finnkai2 Level 1

                                        Well, some progress to report!

                                         

                                        I retried my test movie with the "Music Video" menu template in place of "Adventure" and burned it to a folder.  Hey presto! the sub-picture highlights appeared when I played the file in Sonic Cineplayer.  I therefore went back to my original (longer) movie and re-did the Menu with this template and, yes, this too worked went burned to a folder.

                                         

                                        I will now try using Imgburn to burn the Video_TS files to a DVD disc.  Will let you know what happens tomorrow - it's nearly midnight here in the UK.

                                         

                                        If it is something about the Adventure template, I guess I'll just have to avoid using it but must admit it does seem strange.

                                        • 17. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          That is great news! At least the Project is going out the door.

                                           

                                          I wish that I could test with the PrE 7 version, but just would not think that Adobe would make a change in a carry-over Menu, but stranger things have happened.

                                           

                                          When you have time, maybe do a test Project, and use Adventure Menu Template Set, just to see if it's a problem with that particular Asset.

                                           

                                          Get a good night's rest and have a Happy New Year!

                                           

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                            Finnkai2 Level 1

                                            Good news.  I took the "folder" I burned a couple of night's ago using the different PE7 Menu Template (Music Video) and have now burned it to a DVD disc (using Imgburn).  Result.  The DVD menu does indeed now work on my DVD player!

                                             

                                            I deduce from this long story that there is either something wrong with the original PE7 menu template I used (Adventure) or I fouled it up somehow in the way I used this template in making my video.  If the latter is the case it must be something to do with the way I added text to the "buttons" since the scene marker positions were left unchanged in the successful version.  I must admit that I did shorten some of the text in the "buttons" and wonder if there was some problem with "overlapping buttons" (i.e. text from one button overlapping another one) that I hadn't spotted on the original?  Or I suppose it's just possible this one menu template became corrupted when I loaded PE7 on my PC (although that seems inherently unlikely to me given everything else seems to work).

                                             

                                            I would like to thank the Wine_Snob for his patience and continuous advice during this saga over Christmas.  My children have been amused by the correspondence and I can report that the recipients of the finished video (my brother and his family) were delighted.

                                             

                                            If I do finally determine what went wrong with my first efforts at a menu, I will post the answer here.  I really appreciate knowing there is a forum like this to advise novices like me.

                                             

                                            Happy New Year!

                                            • 19. Re: Disc Menu works in Preview but not on TV
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              I would be very interested to find out what happened during the Menu modification, or during the authoring process.

                                               

                                              There is another open thread on PrE changing font, size and color, after the user has made modifications. Users report that this can happen with many different Menus. So far, I have not been able to duplicate that behavior, but enough users are reporting it, that there must be something there, and I have just not hit everything necessary.

                                               

                                              Glad that the recipients enjoyed your efforts. I hope that they had some idea of how much work you did to get them the DVD. OTOH, maybe just tell 'em that you knocked it all out in a simple afternoon, and it was no big deal.

                                               

                                              Thanks for sticking with this, and please update the thread if you have some news to report, or have a particular test that I can run for you on PrE 4.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt