11 Replies Latest reply on Dec 27, 2009 8:20 PM by the_wine_snob

    Should have issued airbags with PE8!

    Birchbus

      PE7 was (at least to me) usable and stable.  It did what I wanted, and I don't recall stability issues.  That all ended with an "upgrade" to PE8.  I can't seem to keep it running more than 2-5 minutes before it crashes.  It happens at various times, and during various activities...including simply watching the screen.

       

      I have a good NVIDIA video card (that seems to work just fine with every other product I have), but I read the pinned "solution" at the top of this forum and updated to the "beta" version of the driver that is supposed to fix the random crashing...however, my verified 195.81 drivers have had zero impact on the consistent PE8 crashing.  I haven't been able to complete a single project since I "upgraded" from version 7.  My system is 32-bit vista with 4GB physical ram and a stout core2quad processor.  It runs CAD, flight sims, and other audio and video apps both well and reliably...but not PE8.  The only other app it has had issues with is PSE8...but the minor issues with PSE8 pale in comparison to the complete lack of usability in PE8.

       

      I see so many similar customer reviews and forum comments...that I wish, oh how I wish I had waited to make a decision about upgrading!!!

       

      So the question is: considering how horrible this release has been, will there be a free and fixed version 8?  ...or will Adobe attempt to make it's customers wait for (and pay for) version 9?  I can say that if they think the latter is the case, Adobe lost me as a PSE&PE customer...and any hopes whatsoever for considering their alternative products like Lightroom, Photoshop or Premiere (non-Elements).  They may be fine products...but if the company's perspective is such with the entry level products, it won't take long for a company to feel too big for its britches with the higher end ones as well.

       

      Did any QA whatsoever occur with PSE8 or PE8?

        • 1. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          There are a number of articles in the FAQs to the right of this forum on how to disable background processes and maximize the potential of the program to run stably.

           

          But there's no denying the fact that this program, for some reason, takes two to four times the power of its predecessors. Unfortunately, it's long been Adobe's policy not to issue updates for Premiere Elements or Photoshop Elements.

           

          If you're unhappy with the program, I encourage you to contact Adobe by clicking the Contact button at the very top of this page.

          • 2. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
            the_wine_snob Level 9
            considering how horrible this release has been, will there be a free and fixed version 8?  ...or will Adobe attempt to make it's customers wait for (and pay for) version 9?

             

            This has been discussed on the forum, but as none of us an Adobe employee, it has only been speculation - just guesses on our part.

             

            Historically, PrE has only had one update, IIRC, and that was to add Vista support to PrE 3. With the approximately once per year upgrade, there is usually not a lot of time between full numbered releases.

             

            However, it does seem that many (too many) users are having issues with PrE 8. Going to a similar program, PrPro, Adobe issued no updates for PrPro 2.0. Along came PrPro CS3, and there were two updates, one specific to Vista, and the other to fix some problems. Now, CS4 saw a major change in the way some things were done. There were issues. To date, Adobe has rolled out 3 updates specific to PrPro and several for the programs bundled with it, i.e. Encore and Adobe Media Encoder. There are rumors of another in the works.

             

            The lifespan of PrPro is at least 2x that of PrE, so there could well be differences in any updates.

             

            Will there be free, or greatly reduced offerings with PrE 9, if one owned PrE 8? We'll all have wait.

             

            One thing that I have noted is that we have been blessed with the presence of an Adobe employee here. He has contributed to the forum, especially with regards to the mentioned nVidia driver issue. What we do not know is whether he is here for fun, or is here as part of his duties. We also do not know what his duties might be - what team he's on at Adobe. He has not offered this, and we have not asked. We are just glad to have his contributions. At the very least, he might be mentioning some of the issues, or at least the volume of these, around the watercooler.

             

            Personally, I would like to think that Adobe is monitoring this forum, even if totally subrosa. The very number of issues points out that something needs to be done. It could be simple things like upping the "minimum system requirements" statements, to a major update of the software. We, the users, just do not know.

             

            Now, the PrPro forum has had an employee (at unknown level) for sometime, and has had drop-ins from others, usually around the time of an update. Lately, one of the senior members has been quite active, and has shared insights into development items, probably for CS5, or maybe a CS5+ offering. Still, his presence is greatly appreciated. It's nice to have someone around, who has looked closely "under the hood" of a program. Most of the forum members can just rely on logic and experience, and no idea what the code in the program is all about. The Photoshop forum has had one of the original developers of that program, and he brings a level of expertise that no mere user could ever do. Again, highly appreciated.

             

            How will it go with PrE 8? As I started out, we just do not know, and all of our guesses are just that - guesses.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              In the meantime, all that I can offer are suggestions that might help get your system "tuned up," to do editing. Much of this is non PrE-specific and applies whether one is running it, PrPro, AVID, Edius, or any other NLE.

               

              The first is on setting up your computer for an NLE session. It's covered in this ARTICLE.

               

              The next is on general troubleshooting, and is covered in the links in this ARTICLE.

               

              When one experiences crashes, either system or program, or hangs, there are often "clues" scattered around Event Viewer. This ARTICLE will give you tips on gathering those clues.

               

              Along with those, here are some FAQ Articles:

               

              FAQ 1 on increasing the odds of working with PrE 8.

               

              FAQ 2 on turning off processes that continue to run, after one exits from PrE 8

               

              FAQ 3 on turning off background processes in PrE 8

               

              Then, there are tons of potential problems with certain source material. The FAQ's section, to the right of the main forum page, covers some of those. There are more in the Tips & Tricks section, found in the same area as the FAQ sub-forum list.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                Birchbus Level 1

                Thanks "Steve Grisetti" and "The Wine Snob" for your assistance.  Nothing so far has worked to keep PrE8 from crashing...

                Steve Grisetti wrote:

                 

                There are a number of articles in the FAQs to the right of this forum on how to disable background processes and maximize the potential of the program to run stably.

                Thanks for the pointer.  The first thing I did, once I found that PrE8 used background rendering, was to disable it.  Aside from that, I have prevented all other unnecessary apps and background processes from running and consuming resources.  No matter how slimmed down it gets, the crashing still occurs with a similar pattern.

                 

                the_wine_snob wrote:

                 

                In the meantime, all that I can offer are suggestions that might help get your system "tuned up," to do editing. Much of this is non PrE-specific and applies whether one is running it, PrPro, AVID, Edius, or any other NLE.

                 

                The first is on setting up your computer for an NLE session. It's covered in this ARTICLE.

                 

                The next is on general troubleshooting, and is covered in the links in this ARTICLE.

                 

                When one experiences crashes, either system or program, or hangs, there are often "clues" scattered around Event Viewer. This ARTICLE will give you tips on gathering those clues.

                 

                Along with those, here are some FAQ Articles:

                 

                FAQ 1 on increasing the odds of working with PrE 8.

                 

                FAQ 2 on turning off processes that continue to run, after one exits from PrE 8

                 

                FAQ 3 on turning off background processes in PrE 8

                Though I haven't used the special task killing apps mentioned in some of the links, I've done all these things in spirit.

                 

                The organizer's AutoAnalyzer was turned off immediately after discovering that it trashes GPS tagging of images...not to mention consumed incredible resources for little value.

                 

                Vista's Indexing is still on, since I have other software that require this service to be on.  I can see how this would slow things down...but not cause crashing.  PrE7 was just fine with it.

                 

                I have 2 7200 RPM SATA hard drives with 32MB buffers that are not fragmented, and I have set a couple of the scratch disks (Video Previews and Media Cache) to use the second hard drive.  While this did increase performance/responsiveness of PrE8, it didn't prolong or prevent crashing.

                 

                I have an NVIDIA 9800GT video card that I have upgraded drivers from the latest stable to the beta as mentioned in other posts, and this did not affect crashing.  In fact, the only change I can notice is that my KVM has more trouble returning after my monitor goes to sleep...though I can't be sure that's not just a coincidence.

                 

                The video I'm editing is 640x480 30fps MJPEG in an AVI container.  This is from my fuji camera, and has never been a problem in any prior release of PrE (back to 3.0).  It's neither HD nor one of the sqirrelly new formats.  I have tried this without any rendering, and PrE seems to last just a little bit longer before crashing...but this is not objectively timed.  I have tried manually rendering all clips prior to working with the video.  This process takes a bit of time, and it does not crash during the manual rendering...but crashes very soon after beginning to edit the rendered clips.

                 

                I've considered setting processor affinity so that PrE8 has only a single core...but even if that fixed some threading problem, I'd reject using it for the simple case that this type of issue should not be present in long-standing commercial products that cost this much.

                 

                I would probably still complain a little if this were just a performance issue...but at the moment, my investment in the product is 100% waste.  In fact, it's greater than 100% waste since it's removed my ability to edit my videos.  I would go back to PrE7 if I could, but I'm concerned that doing so without a system rebuild would be futile...and I don't have the time for that right now.

                 

                Also, for the sake of comparison...MS Live MovieMaker works flawlessly and rapidly on my VGA videos, as well as 1080i stuff.  I would just use this tool if it had the ability to build DVDs with menus.

                 

                I would love to get PrE back and working reliably...but I think version 8 may have been the release that pushes me to competitor's products.  I'll gladly pay for improved features and/or compatibility...but I will refuse to continue paying for degraded compatibility and reliability.  The company that thinks it can get away with forcing customers to pay to get back the stability that they took away is nothing better than an organized crime protection raquet.  I hope I'm wrong and that Adobe will stand behind this product...but I doubt it.

                 

                Sam

                • 5. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  And, of course, you'll avoid a lot of problems if you convert your MJPEG-AVIs to DV-AVIs, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

                  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0

                   

                  As it says in the FAQs, MovieMaker is the best free converter for this type of file.

                  • 6. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                    Birchbus Level 1

                    Steve Grisetti wrote:

                     

                    And, of course, you'll avoid a lot of problems if you convert your MJPEG-AVIs to DV-AVIs, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

                    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0

                     

                    As it says in the FAQs, MovieMaker is the best free converter for this type of file.

                     

                    Thanks; I will try this and see what impact it makes...but it is rather sad if this is the fix, since all older versions prior to 8 worked just fine for very complex edits without such a conversion. I don't like ad hoc conversions, since every one is lossy.  I want to keep pristine video as long as possible...right up until final rendering/export.  If this is not possible with PrE...why use it at all?

                     

                    Also, doesn't clip rendering accomplish something similar?

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    Sam

                    • 7. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Which MJPEG CODE do you have installed? Many users report great luck with the Morgan, or the MainConcept. There are others out there too, and some just work better than others do.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                        Birchbus Level 1

                        the_wine_snob wrote:

                         

                        Which MJPEG CODE do you have installed? Many users report great luck with the Morgan, or the MainConcept. There are others out there too, and some just work better than others do.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        I am (and have been) using the Microsoft DirectShow MJPEG compressor/decompressor (the quartz dll).  I will look at the Morgan and MainConcept...but they are each $20, and the MS one has worked just fine under PrE7.  I would think prior to that as well, but I'm not sure which codec I was running on my older computer (prior to PrE7).  I can also use ffdshow, but I turned that one off due to very poor performance in the Organizer.

                         

                        I guess there's no harm in trying the free trial of the codec's you mention...but it sure would be nice to have the MainConcept MJPEG codec included with Premiere (like the others that are there already: H.264, DV, and MPEG-X).

                         

                        Thanks

                         

                        Sam

                        • 9. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          I can also use ffdshow, but I turned that one off due to very poor performance in the Organizer.

                           

                          I do not know how if affects PrE, but FFDShow has caused all sorts of headaches for PrPro. Few users have been able to do anything, when it was installed. Going back to the release of PrPro 1.0 (Premiere 7), Adobe changed from the Direct Show display engine. I do not know at what point in PrE development the same might have happened - just don't know my PrE history, like I know PrPro.

                           

                          For the PrPro users, complete removal of FFDShow has gotten things back to normal. It does seem a bit tough to get rid of, however.

                           

                          As to why your earlier PrE would work fine with the same footage, but PrE 8 is having issues, I can't help, as I do not know what's under the hood with PrE 8. Might be some new feature that has smurfed things with the MS MJPEG CODEC, or maybe the conflict is elsewhere.

                           

                          I think that the Mogran, at least, has a trial, but have had the MainConcept MJPEG for so long, that I forget now.

                           

                          I'd look at disabling FFDShow, as a test. Do a System Restore Point, prior to removal, in case that has zero to do with anything, and you wish to roll-back to having it. Then remove and test. I'd also do a System Restore Point there too, just in case.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                            Birchbus Level 1

                            the_wine_snob wrote:

                             

                            <snipped>

                             

                            As to why your earlier PrE would work fine with the same footage, but PrE 8 is having issues, I can't help, as I do not know what's under the hood with PrE 8. Might be some new feature that has smurfed things with the MS MJPEG CODEC, or maybe the conflict is elsewhere.

                             

                            I think that the Mogran, at least, has a trial, but have had the MainConcept MJPEG for so long, that I forget now.

                             

                            I installed the MainConcept MJPG codec, and PrE8 has stopped crashing!  Though I'd still say (subjectively) that it's slower than PrE7, it lets me edit/produce video...so I'm mostly happy, and fully grateful.  Thank you!

                             

                            I really do appreciate your help...I just wish it weren't necessary

                             

                            Sam

                            • 11. Re: Should have issued airbags with PE8!
                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                              Though I'd still say (subjectively) that it's slower than PrE7, it lets me edit/produce video...so I'm mostly happy, and fully grateful.

                               

                              I cannot comment on the speed of PrE 8 vs PrE 7, but am glad that things are working better for you. Others will have to comment on PrE 7 vs PrE 8, regarding speeds, and ease of editing.

                               

                              Glad that things are improving.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt