13 Replies Latest reply on Apr 28, 2010 6:24 PM by the_wine_snob

    Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn

    SMPxxxxx

      Apologies if this is the wrong place / way to go about this but perhaps someone can redirect my question to the correct spot if this is this is not the right way to go about this - after much searching I can't find any answers on other posts / comments.

       

      I am runing Elements 8 and have had many of the format experiences / crashes others have noted. However, I have kept battling and developed a project consising simply of DV video and standard photos (jpg) with suitable musical sound track as backing (mp3).

       

      Whilst I have now successsfully produced a working DVD which in all other aspects is as I intended, my latest frustration relates to the audio and video of particular clips not being in sync. Whilst the audit and video does appear in perfect sync when played via the timeline, once the burn process is complete the result when played is out of sync (by over a second in some cases). This out of sync can be noticed when the TS file is run in windows media player before the file is burnt to a DVD (so not a DVD burn issue I guess).

       

      This would suggest it is not the DV upload process that is at issue but the burn process ( I burn to a file first). I originally did allow background rendering (didnt know I had a choice) but for the latest burn did switch this off but with no noticable impact. It doesn't seem to be all clips but is a number of them (they are all from the same source).

       

      I am running a pretty good system with an intel i7 processor, 8Gb ram and am running vista (not a strength of the system!).

       

      Any suggestions as to why the out of sync appears following the burn process would be gratefully received.

       

      Many thanks in advance.

       

      Steve

        • 1. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Steve,

           

          Welcome to the forum. You are indeed in the correct place.

           

          Thanks for testing where the issue is being introduced, and also for describing your Assets. That really helps.

           

          Now for the bad news: I believe that this is the third, or fourth similar post on OOS (Out Of Sync) when Burned to Folder, or Disc. IIRC, in each of the previous posts, the user also had good sync in the Project. It was not until "Exporting" to DVD-Video, that the problem surfaced. In some of those, there might have been issues with Assets, but that DV Video should NOT cause this issue.

           

          It might be that there is some problem with PrE 8's MPEG-2 encoding. That Transcoding is necessary for a DVD-Video. The common elements seem to be PrE 8 and DVD-Video giving OOS. I'll see if I can locate some of those other threads, but I do not recall anyone with a real "fix."

           

          On a side note, and unrelated to your OOS, what size are your JPEG's? Also, just a comment: MP3 Audio files can cause issues, but usually with Import. With that format, I always convert to PCM/WAV, with the possible exception of tiny SFX files. Again, these questions and comments have nothing to do with the OOS on Buning.

           

          I'll be back with some of those other threads, and hopefully someone else can find and offer the fix.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
            SMPxxxxx Level 1

            Hunt - many thanks for comments and support.

             

            I look fwd to seeing the other threads and will review.

             

            In respose to your Qs:

             

            - Note comment re mp3s - didn't have any real issues here on import but always seems to take a few mins to 'conform' file each time project opened.

             

            - JPEGS are mainly 4Mb files

             

             

            Interestingly one of the the worst out of sync clips is a part of the project where there is no music (mp3) in the timeline. It does seem that the extra coding perofmed to burn to a folder (rather than just play in the timeline) is causing the problem given that it appears fine when played from the timeline.

             

            I'll await any other suggestions for things to try...

             

            Thanks for your help so far.

             

            Steve

            • 3. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
              the_wine_snob Level 9
              JPEGS are mainly 4Mb files

               

              While I'm searching for the threads (right now, titles are not getting me there, and I've gone though a bunch of variables in Google), you might find this ARTICLE useful for sizing JPEG's for editing.

               

              Now, back to my search.

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Here's similar, though not one that I am searching for. This ARTICLE is from Elements Village.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Maybe I am confusing this forum with the one on Muvipix. Here's a similar problem in an ARTICLE there. Maybe I read too many fora!

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Not specific to PrE, let alone version 8, but similar from Curt Wrigley's site.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                      SMPxxxxx Level 1

                      Hunt

                       

                      Thanks for help to date.

                       

                      Never one to give up and being convinced that this is a 'calculation' (don't know correct term) issue upon burn, I thought I would test this by moving one of the problem clips to another 'channel' re doing the transtions and then re burning (to a folder as usual). Result was a perfectly in sync clip.

                       

                      I don't fully undertsand the burn process but it looks like part of the calc once complete is stored and used again in future burns - is this right? On this basis I clearly have the option to go through all the troublesome clips and simply move from video/audio 1 to video/audio 3 channel to force a re calc but this process might well introduce further errors (either operator error or in the same unknown way as the last were created). I was wondering if there was an option in the software to force a total 'recalc' during the burn process as this probably has a better chance of introducing the least errors? Perhaps you can advise.

                       

                      I am beginning to think that this software for all its strengths is just a bit unreliable when you dig below the surface. On the last run for no reason it left out a song that previosly it had always included correctly (I hadn't done anything re the song / surrounding material etc). Unfortunately I think if you do a couple of burns of the same project with no changes you are likely to get slightly different results creep in each time. Is this your expereince? Guess I thought that the maths involved would give the same result each time but I fear the complexity of variables involved means that under real scrutiny the accuracy is not what I expected. Is the pro version any better?

                       

                      Thanks again

                       

                      Steve

                       

                      P.S. A simpler question...where is the spell checker when writing a note on the forum...with my spelling I need it but can't see anywhere!

                      • 8. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        I am not an expert on the authoring phase in PrE, but here's what happens in Encore, and many other full-featured authoring programs:

                         

                        When one has Imported the Assets, linked the Menus and done all of the other navigational settings, they go to Burn (Folder, Image or Disc). Depending on what has been Imported, Encore takes the chosen disc size, and studies the Assets. If necessary, it will Transcode the Motion Assets to MPEG-2 and mux the Video and Audio. It will create Transcode files for this purpose. These are then left in the Media Cache. Once this Transcoding is complete, Encore then assembles the materials into the DVD-Video order, and writes the necessary files, like the VOB's. These are then either written to a folder, wrapped in an ISO file, or burned directly to disc. Depending on what is done, those files will not be left on the computer, once the Burn is complete. Done.

                         

                        This is just a theory: if PrE follows pretty closely to that workflow, then if one has perhaps gone through the Transcoding, say for an earlier Burn, and then make any changes to the Project, it could be that PrE is still trying to use those older Transcode files, and is not picking up that changes were made to the Project. This can happen in Encore, and cleaning the Media Cache takes care of it. Sometimes, the linking to those earlier Transcode files can get messed up. Something like this could be happening here - maybe not the exact same, but similar.

                         

                        Encore has a Toolbar process to Clean, or Delete the Media Cache. I do not know if PrE has similar, but do not think that it does. Maybe someone, who knows what's "under the hood," regarding PrE's authoring process, can offer some thoughts. Steve? ATR? Anybody?

                         

                        I'll also Burn a small Project in PrE (something that I have to admit I have only done once, as I use Encore), and just see what files are created and when they are created, prior to the physical Burn.

                         

                        Thanks for your observations, and glad that you got that sync back "in line!"

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                          nealeh Level 5

                          SMPxxxxx wrote:

                           

                          P.S. A simpler question...where is the spell checker when writing a note on the forum...with my spelling I need it but can't see anywhere!

                           

                          Top right, next to HTML button.

                           

                          spel.gif

                          Cheers,

                          --

                          Neale

                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                            SMPxxxxx Level 1

                            Hunt - thanks v much for help.

                             

                            Good news - your suggestion got me thinking - I have just finished checking last burn and it worked exactly as intended per timeline.

                             

                            In summary for anyone searching this thread in future - my audio/ video sync issues on burns appear to have been corrected by deleting rendered files before the burn (Timeline - Delete rendered files). It appears that some data from previous burns is retained and used for future burns unless these files are deleted. Once deleted I guess software does a re calc and at that point I got exactly what was in the timeline - no accumulation of errors. Guess there maybe some other impact of deleting these files but I have not seen it yet - everything works fine.

                             

                            Thanks again.

                             

                            Steve

                            • 11. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Steve,

                               

                              That is good news and good detective work. Thanks for reporting the cure.

                               

                              As stated up-thread, similar can happen in Encore (the authoring/burning program w/ PrPro), when one has Transcoded, then made changes. Sometimes, the links to the old Transcode files can cause errors, not all of which are OOS problems.

                               

                              Appreciated,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                                beckydb

                                THANK YOU SO MUCH!  Deleting the rendered files FINALLY solved the problem for me.  I've been searching for an answer for two days, and stumbled on this one.  So glad I read through the whole thing!

                                • 13. Re: Elements 8 video audio sync problems on burn
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Welcome to the forum, and glad that you found the answer to your problem. That is one of the beautiful things about this forum - first, it is often a direct help to a poster, but then can be useful to others with the same, or similar issues.

                                   

                                  Thanks for reporting,

                                   

                                  Hunt