11 Replies Latest reply on Jan 1, 2010 1:36 PM by the_wine_snob

    VHS capture quality/s-video question

    ruffhouseutah Level 1

      I'm capturing some pretty old VHS tapes and the quality isn't very good. The Canopus capture device that I've got connected to my VCR has an S-Video input in addition to the composite input, and I'm wondering a few things about it:

       

      1. Would the difference between S-Video and composite be noticeable/appreciable?

      2. Most regular VCRs don't have S-Video outputs, mine included; does it have to be a S-VHS machine to have an S-Video output?

      3. If it must be an S-VHS machine, must the tape be a special S-VHS tape, or can regular VHS tapes play on an S-VHS machine and benefit from the superior S-Video output?

       

      There's a lot of good used S-VHS machines on ebay, craigslist, and elsewhere, for not too much money... of course, it only makes sense if the quality difference is noticeable...

       

      Anyone have a good handle on this?

        • 1. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          The connection might have a slight difference, but I would not expect to really be able to see that difference.

           

          Which Canopus unit are you using? The 300 does offer some Timebase corrections, that the other units down the line do not. Still, that only saves one some time with Levels, and Color Balance in the NLE.

           

          I've done the captures to DV-AVI Type II with composite connections and the Canopus 300, from some old, poorly stored (AZ heat) VHS tapes in SP, EP and LP formats, and have gotten good results to DVD-Video.

           

          Generally, I look first to Levels, then Highlight & Shadow, then Fast Color Corrector, then Neat Video and finally a bit of Unsharp Mask. Note that this is in PrPro, and I do not use any Auto Effects. PrE has a few limitations there.

           

          My DVD-Video output has looked much better than playing the original VHS tapes in a VHS deck to the same TV.

           

          Not sure that any of this will help you, with your tapes, but I have been very pleased with the results, as have my clients.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
            ruffhouseutah Level 1

            Wow, that sounds pretty advanced to me. I'm using a simple little device, the Canopus ADVC 110, that has analog inputs on the front and connects to my PC via firewire.

             

            What's timebase correction? Wouldn't that have more to do with capturing DV than analog? Either way, 110 is a smaller number than 300, I'd guess it's not part of my deal.

             

            What's AVI-Type II? In fact, with the little WinDV app that you (or Steve G.) recommended, there's two types of AVI files that can be created, Type 1 and Type 2, which should I be using?

             

            As for the video effects, I don't think any of those are in there, but I haven't looked yet. I'm working with PE8, not PrPro. I used to use PrPro 1.5 and thought I'd try elements and have been impressed at how powerful it is, but it sounds like it might lack some effects that are beneficial for improving low-quality clips. Upgrade is $299...  hmmmm...

             

            So bottom-line answer: don't worry about S-video? Just work on enhancing the video after capture?

            • 3. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              The 110 is a good unit. It does a great job of capturing from the VHS. The 300 allows more corrections (the Timebase corrections) at the time of capture, but at a price. I doubt that you'd see a difference in the connection type (S-Video vs Composite). You can do everything, that the 300 offers, in PrE. I just like to save myself some time with those corrections, but like I said, it comes with a price, and you already have the 110.

               

              As far as the DV-AVI Type, PrE (and PrPro) is set up for the DV-AVI Type II. The main differences will be the allowable file size, and possibly some OOS (Out Of Sync) issues, that can creep in with the Type I files. If you use the 110 via FireWire and Capture in PrE (or PrPro), you WILL get Type II files. Should be nothing to worry about there. If one is doing the Capture in WMM, then it will be Type I files. Why MS has not gone to Type II's is a mystery to me. Still, you should be fine.

               

              As for the correction Effects, I will admit that PrE has too many of the "Auto" Effects. I do not use anything "Auto," but that is just me. I find that unless every Clip is lite and shot exactly the same, that the Auto Effects seem to pulse. I always choose the regular, non-Auto, Effects, and adjust by hand.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                nealeh Level 5

                the_wine_snob wrote:


                If you use the 110 via FireWire and Capture in PrE (or PrPro), you WILL get Type II files. Should be nothing to worry about there. If one is doing the Capture in WMM, then it will be Type I files. Why MS has not gone to Type II's is a mystery to me. Still, you should be fine.

                 

                When I was looking into the two types (to ascertain what my Magic analog-digital converter produced) I saw a statement somewhere suggesting that "Type I" is the  more recent standard (presumably using count down nomenclature).


                Cheers,
                --
                Neale
                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                • 5. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Neale,

                   

                  I cannot recall the timeline on the development of the two types of DV-AVI, but the Type II is the more universal and can be larger, while Type I is limited in size. For someone using WMM to edit, that is probably not a big concern. Once one has stepped up to PrE, or PrPro, size becomes a big issue. Also, OOS issues are common, when using Type I files. They almost never occur with Type II's. Both PrE and PrPro are designed around the Type II files. That is why they are recommended. Personally, I just go with what works and works best.

                   

                  Happy New Year,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                    nealeh Level 5

                    And fortunately the Magic analog-digital converter DOES produce Type II - and are imported into PRE7 with no need for further rendering.

                     

                    Cheers,
                    --
                    Neale
                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                    • 7. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                      ruffhouseutah Level 1

                      What is the "Magic" analog-to-digital converter you are referring to?

                      • 8. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                        nealeh Level 5

                        ruffhouseutah wrote:

                         

                        What is the "Magic" analog-to-digital converter you are referring to?

                        Oops - typo. that should be the Magix analog-to-digital converter. It's a USB device provided with their 'Rescue your Videotapes' package. I believe it is a badged version of the Kworld 2861 device.

                         

                        You connect an analog device (eg VCR) to it, plug it into a PC USB port, and use their software to import it. You can then either edit it directly in the software or else save it out as Type II DV-AVI (there are many output formats but DV-AVI is the one for PRE).

                         

                        Quality is adequate (although I await the_wine_snob's review of the Canopus advc55) provided you import it with their own HQ propriety codec. The DV-AVIs it produces are perfect for PRE7 (put them on the timeline and no rendering is needed).

                         

                        I have it (as well as PRE7) installed on both Vista and Windows 7 64bit in my dual boot system and so far have not had any problem with either. Although, to be fair, I've not done much processing in W7 so far other than using PRE7 to produce an autoplay DVD of a thirty minute TV program.

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Neale,

                           

                          One quick question: on many non-FW A-D devices, there are often Audio sync issues. Based on your recommendations, I would assume that you have not encountered any OOS. Is this the case?

                           

                          Just curious, and thank you for your contributions,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                            nealeh Level 5

                            the_wine_snob wrote:

                             

                            on many non-FW A-D devices, there are often Audio sync issues. Based on your recommendations, I would assume that you have not encountered any OOS. Is this the case?

                            Movies on DVD (MoD) in it's default configuration has serious audio sync options. These are caused by a Magix 'feature' that is supposed to ensure correct synchronisation!

                             

                            By turning that particular feature off I've had no further problems. I posted the solution on the Magix forums (http://www.magix.info/uk/a-possible-solution-to-audio-and-video-synchronization-problem.kn owledge.21679.html) and have received emails of thanks from others who had been struggling with this.Another poster added his experiences of the 'feature' and how he got it to work - his reply is in the first response to my post.

                             

                            My version is MoD7 but, from emails received, the fix also works in the latest version (MoD8).

                             

                            Cheers,
                            --
                            Neale
                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                            • 11. Re: VHS capture quality/s-video question
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Neale,

                               

                              Great to know. I was curious, as that is one of the biggest issues with many A-D capture devices and programs.

                               

                              Thanks,

                               

                              Hunt