20 Replies Latest reply on Jan 3, 2010 4:16 PM by the_wine_snob

    Audio Editing

    kdoc2 Level 1

      My flatscreen monitor is set at 1920 x 1200. I can barely see the waves in audio, and they're certainly so minute, that precise editing is very, very difficult. I've tried 1024 x 768, but that makes fitting the workspace impossible, and the waves are far from ideal even there. The edit mode in Soundbooth is great, size-wise, but so far I'm unsure how to work with video and audio simultaneously there. It seems to me also that Soundbooth is quite user friendly, but hasn't the sophistication of Premiere when it comes to editing. It's as if they've put an "Elements" program alongside several major programs in Production Suite. I suspect many of you use Audition, but that isn't included in the already very expensive Production Suite. (I'm still using it on 'Trial.")

       

      So, what are your thoughts on what I've said--how well can you do complex audio editing in Premiere, and what is your approach to using other programs along with it like Soundbooth, Audition, Audacity, etc. Is there some way to blow up the height of the audio tracks?

       

      kdoc2

      Happy New Year.

        • 1. Re: Audio Editing
          Huntrex Level 2

          Absolutely. To extend the height of the audio waveform in Premiere go to the left side of the timeline, and move your cursor to the divider below the audio track that you want to extend, your pointer will turn into a double pointed arrow, and drag.

          • 2. Re: Audio Editing
            kdoc2 Level 1

            Well now, that's what I call ushering in the New Year in style!! Thanks. What can you tell me about how often ya'll integrate your workflow with Soundbooth?

             

            kdoc2

            • 3. Re: Audio Editing
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              I use Audition, instead of Soundbooth, but use it for about 80% of my Audio. Though PrPro offers a lot of useful Effects, and control, Audition offers so many more features, especially for Audio "restoration."

               

              Good luck, and glad that you can now see the Waveform better. As I usually do my Video editing first, and then my Audio, I will expand all Audio Tracks, both horizontally and vertically, and just scroll my Video Tracks out of sight.

               

              Do not know if Soundbooth offers this, but Audition will also Import Video, so that one can use it, rather like PrPro, while doing the intense Audio editing.

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Audio Editing
                Level 4

                Huntrex, you deserve ANOTHER "answered" credit from me TOO.  You have no idea how many help files and google searched I've done to get that information !  My soundtracks up til now in premiere have looked like ant tracks in the sand !  To actually SEE them....WOW !

                A whole new world !

                 

                I'm doing tutorials but haven't got to that part yet, audio stuff.

                 

                So thanks !

                 

                Hunt, SoundForge imports like the header image of each clip with sound, and when the CTI gets to that image the image plays... I haven't tried doing more than that yet, but I like the program from using it before...I don't know if it will import every frame image...

                 

                Rod

                 

                wow, I can see an actual wave form without dragging the file into the source monitor !   haha...this is fun !

                • 5. Re: Audio Editing
                  kdoc2 Level 1

                  Thanks. Soundbooth does have a video component, but I'm not sure yet just how robust it is from an editing point of view--still figuring it out (learning Premiere, Soundbooth, Encore, and something about audio in Audition is a bit slow going ). But except for the time going from one program to another, Soundbooth audio editing does seem more user friendly than Premiere. Being able to "Select parts" rather than razor them out seems to be a preferable way of working though, and that's in Soundbooth and apparently not in Premiere. And as for looking at the waves, grey on green is still not as contrasty (although now it's larger!!) as other programs. Soundbooth gives a lovely bright green wave on black background which is very easy to see--and it's very large, as well).

                   

                  kdoc2

                  • 6. Re: Audio Editing
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    I've never used Sound Forge, but it gets a lot of praise. Would assume that it has a lot to offer. Besides Audition, I do have a handful of others, but no Sound Forge yet.

                     

                    Thanks for the kind words, and Happy New Year!

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Audio Editing
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Kdoc2,

                       

                      I have not seen SB, since the early beta days, so I'm glad to hear of its capabilities. As I was already using Audition, I guess that I did not do a good job at beta.

                       

                      I also agree about being able to process an Envelope being a big plus. The workaround that you mention does work fine, but I'd always choose to keep my Audio files in "one piece." There are too many places, otherwise, for clicks and pops to sneak in. Maybe I am just being old-school.

                       

                      The ease of display in Audition is a plus for me too, as the eyes age, the monitor rez goes up and the images get smaller! I just got a new pair of glasses, just for my monitors. So far, they work great for both the laptop and the dual 21"ers, but I have to be careful walking up stairs with them!

                       

                      When it comes to using Audition, I have yet to scratch the surface. A full 90% of my work in it has been for Video and there is so very much more. Right now, the reading matter in my briefcase for flights, is on Audition. In six months, that'll be replaced by more AE reading material. Pulling out one of those usually insures some privacy from other fliers, who'd want to talk, should I be reading pop-fiction. I get a lot of reading done...

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Audio Editing
                        kdoc2 Level 1

                        In my limited experience with all of this, I've worked in Audacity, which is quite full and good, and which is coming out with a 2.0 new version. It's freeware!!!! or wikiware, I guess. One thing I miss after playing with these new Adobe products is the ability to put 2 or more clips end to end (or to cut some parts out of one clip), and then to seal the fragments into one. Lynda.com did show me one workaround, putting the clips in a new Sequence in Pr Pro, but it seems to be a few steps, and is much easier in Audacity. Also, in Soundbooth, I can't seem to put those 3 in a row clips into the edit mode--I have to work them separately. Any thoughts about the problem in general (I know you don't have Soundbooth)? Does Premiere allow this melding together?

                         

                        kdoc2

                        • 9. Re: Audio Editing
                          Huntrex Level 2

                          kdoc2 wrote:

                          Lynda.com did show me one workaround, putting the clips in a new Sequence in Pr Pro, but it seems to be a few steps, and is much easier in Audacity. Also, in Soundbooth, I can't seem to put those 3 in a row clips into the edit mode--I have to work them separately. Any thoughts about the problem in general (I know you don't have Soundbooth)? Does Premiere allow this melding together?

                           

                          Here's a much easier way to consolidate multiple audio clips into one: select the audio clips you want to combine, right click one of the selected clips and select "Nest". You may access the individual clips again by double clicking on the nested sequence.

                           

                          As for Soundbooth, you can create a new multitrack file (CS4 only) and drag your audio clips into sequence. But no, you cannot EDIT them as one.

                          • 10. Re: Audio Editing
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            One simple method would be to set the WAB (Work Area Bar) over the Clips that are required, and Export Audio (only) as a PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit. Import that into the editing program of choice and edit. Save and Import, using the resultant file as your Audio back in PrPro.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Audio Editing
                              kdoc2 Level 1

                              Thanks Hunt: I had thought of exporting to a wav file also, but had wondered if there was some "glue" somewhere in the program to save that step--because I find myself repeatedly snipping away, rearranging, etc. I'm hearing there's not. BTW if the WAB is over a voice over + some music + video with sound, for example, how can I export only one of the audio files?  And of the choices, I was given AIFF, Audio only and Windows waveform, MP3. (THis is vial File--Export--Media). I didn't see a Wav file option, though I assume AIFF is fine?? And to get it to work, I had to slide the clip(s) I wanted to export so they were no longer under the other clips, otherwise all were mixed together

                               

                              kdoc2

                              • 12. Re: Audio Editing
                                kdoc2 Level 1

                                Huntrex; Thanks a lot. I had answered Hunts post without seeing yours--which works fine!! The only problem I see with that is that you also can't edit the new nested sequence in Soundbooth--and there's no longer waveforms--so you're apparently stuck just using Pr Proj to put an effect onto the sequence. I've also discovered that if you select them all they do slide together. And if you "group" them they also continue to slide together every time you select only one (as they then all automatically select).

                                 

                                kdoc2

                                • 13. Re: Audio Editing
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                  BTW if the WAB is over a voice over + some music + video with sound, for example, how can I export only one of the audio files?

                                   

                                  Here, just turn OFF the little "speaker" in the particular Audio Tracks' Header. That will effectively Mute that/those Track(s).

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Audio Editing
                                    kdoc2 Level 1

                                    How simple: I should have figured that one out (:  Thank you.

                                     

                                    kdoc2

                                    • 15. Re: Audio Editing
                                      kdoc2 Level 1

                                      Hi Huntrex and others: I'm having some trouble and questions about moving between Premiere and Soundbooth, and in a way that's useable--how to optimize the "Suite"--the coordination between the various programs. Can you tell me exactly how you do this. Problems I've run into are: 1. Whether to import from Soundbooth or send to Soundbooth from Premiere? 2. Getting them into Soundbooth in a form they're still editable. (I've ended up with a multitrack in Soundbooth which does not edit or show the soundwave). 3. Getting the sound levels to be coordinated. I've had the sound perfect in Soundbooth, but when I went back into Premiere, the level had to be markedly increased. 4. When you start by audio editing in Soundbooth, how do you then move into Premiere from there?

                                       

                                      Can you direct me to a resource or just give me a step by step of how you accomplish these tasks. I've directed this to Huntrex as I know many of you aren't using Soundbooth. But I'd appreciate info from anyone.

                                       

                                      kdoc2

                                      • 16. Re: Audio Editing
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Kdoc2,

                                         

                                        I do not use Soundbooth, but Audition instead. Still, here is my normal workflow:

                                         

                                        1.) Import/Capture in PrPro for both Audio & Video

                                        2.) Edit based on Video (you can see that I do not do many "music-videos")

                                        3.) Use Rt-click>Edit in Audition, where the Clip's Audio opens in Edit Mode. There, I do the Audio editing, as is required, and just hit Save. The first step basically did a Render/Replace for the Audio in the Clip and launched Audition. The Save transfers the edited file back to my PrPro Timeline, in its edited form. [Note: with the first step in the process, a new WAV file will appear in the Project Panel, and on the Timeline, in place of the muxed Audio from the AV Clip. With the Save, that file will be updated in both locations.]

                                         

                                        Hope that this helps. I do not know how it applies to SB and PrPro, but would assume that it would be very similar.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Audio Editing
                                          kdoc2 Level 1

                                              When I right click edit in Soundbooth, only the audio track goes in. If I want the video to show up too (and yes, it will in Soundbooth), I have to go into Soundbooth and import the video from my hard drive--and then I'm editing RAW footage which I prefer not to do.I don't know if there's a better way to get video from Premiere to Soundbooth.

                                           

                                             The other parts of your suggestions seem to work most of the time--when I hit "Save" it either works and the changes show up in Premiere, or it doesn't, or it gives me a Save As box. Probably a glitch in the software or in the operator .

                                           

                                               Here's what I'm thinking/intuiting, and I admit that as a beginning video editor, I may be way off base. I think Adobe is in the infancy stages of making Soundbooth--it's a cross between Photoshop Elements and Photoshop 4.0. We may well be dealing with a half-finished program as Adobe's approach to relieving the non-audio-engineer of excessive misery. But perhaps my opinion will change as I learn more.

                                           

                                          kdoc2

                                          • 18. Re: Audio Editing
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Edit in Audition is exactly the same. Only the Audio Clip comes in. If I want to Import Video, I will have to do that separately. Usually, I'll use the WAB (Work Area Bar) to Export that Clip's Video, especially if I have done any editing with it, and then Import that file separately to do scoring, etc. It's the same thing with SmartSound's Sonicfire Pro - Export, then Import, score, and Save the "soundtrack" for Import back into PrPro. [Maybe soon, Sonicfire Pro will be offered as a plug-in for PrPro, as they have such for FCP now. I'm hoping.]

                                             

                                            Sorry that I confused you about the Edit in Audition - just like SB, it's for the Audio only. All other files must be Imported separately.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Audio Editing
                                              kdoc2 Level 1

                                              After I got your previous reply, I snooped into the "Help" and discovered this sentence: "If you add a video master clip to a sequence and you want the edited audio to accompany the video, you need to unlink and delete the audio from the master clip, and then link the remaining video with the edited audio." This is somewhat relevant.

                                               

                                              What all of this is saying to me, again as a video novice, is that Adobe Premiere really should be robust enough to be used to do both audio and video much of the time; jumping back and forth in a "Suite" is hardly helpful or efficient. Just how many things do you feel you're better off doing in audio outside of Premiere?

                                               

                                              kdoc2

                                              • 20. Re: Audio Editing
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                Just how many things do you feel you're better off doing in audio outside of Premiere?

                                                 

                                                For me and the Assets that I often get, the biggest plus with Audition is the Audio Restoration Effects. Transient Repair, alone, is worth the $ and the time. There are many more, in that same vein, that I use on so many Projects. I would not be without it.

                                                 

                                                Now, that is just me and what I deal with. Others might find little use, as PrPro is really pretty good with Audio - much better than some other NLE's that I've used or seen. Given good Audio, I'll never leave PrPro until I am Exporting my DD 5.1 SS Audio.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt