4 Replies Latest reply on Jan 2, 2010 9:47 AM by the_wine_snob

    Choppy DVD playback even with PE8

    Must_Warn_Others Level 1

      I've read a lot of other complaints about poor DVD playback with Premiere Elements but I've yet to find anything that could help me overcome an issue that continues to plague me. If I could get past this I think editing video would again be enjoyable. <sigh>

       

      I'm using MS Windows (Vista) and PE8 ... although I've used PE7 with the same problem. In short, I cannot create a "clean" DVD from video I've taken with my camcorder (Canon DC50). The output DVD that I play on several different DVD players and TV's has a consistent poor quality playback ... I think most people with the same problem describe it as the video appears to be skipping frames (choppy). The Canon DC50 uses the smaller DVD media in the camera and if I play the video back using this original DVD the quality is gorgeous. I get choppy video even  If I simplify a workflow so that it only includes either importing or copying the VOB file off of the original DVD and then having Premiere output that video (no menus, no transitions, no effects, no nothing ... just a couple minutes of youth football) to DVD.

       

      Workflow

      Video football game with DC50 -> import video with PE8 -> output to DVD -> poor quality playback

       

      Video football game with DC50 -> copy VOB file from original DVD to computer hard disk -> Read in to PE8 -> output to DVD -> poor quality playback

       

      Video football game with DC50 -> copy VOB file from original DVD to computer hard disk -> Read in to Nerovision-> output to DVD -> great quality ... same as original DVD

       

      It seems like such a simple issue ... maybe a setting somewhere blah blah blah ... but it just does not work. I can do the same workflow with Nero's cheesy editor (nerovision?) ... and the DVD output plays beautifully on the TV. Just for the record ... I didn't just load PE8 and burn a couple of DVDs and then start complaining ... I've been at war with this thing since around September. I've overcome a lot ... burned up around 15 to 20 dollars worth of DVD's (4GB, 8GB, DL, Brand A, B, C and D) ... replaced a DVD drive ... upgraded to PE8 ... Nerovision is the only thing that can copy the original DVD's from the DC50 to a new regular sized DVD. I've also used output from a Canon 5D MarkII camera and the results are great as well. The problem has something to do with the Canon DC50 and PE. Arrrghhh ... I just want to read the DC50 DVD "vob" file and write it out to DVD in PE ...

       

      Anyone know of a FAQ or thread I may have overlooked that helped solve this problem?

       

      -- Donnie

        • 1. Re: Choppy DVD playback even with PE8
          Paul787 Level 3

          The VOB files are likely the source of your difficulties. Converting the files to the DV-AVI format using a program like MPEG-Streamclip will likely resolve your issues.

           

          The very first project I ever worked on in Premiere Elements had footage from a MiniDV camcorder and a Canon DVD camcorder. The files from the DVD camcorder were very difficult to work with in Premiere Elements until I converted them to DV-AVI's. After that, editing, burning, and quality were all very good.

           

          If you are interested in MPEG Streamclip, you can get it here:

           

          http://www.squared5.com/

          • 2. Re: Choppy DVD playback even with PE8
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            If one is using any DVD camera as a source, then there is the first MPEG-2 compression to consider. Then, if they wish to burn a DVD, there is a second DVD MPEG-2 compression. This is not the ideal source for source footage.

             

            One should consider only doing cuts, and using an NLE that offers "smart Rendering," which is really Transcoding. That is as good as it will get. DVD cameras are meant for viewing with direct connections to a TV and not for any editing.

             

            Sorry,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Choppy DVD playback even with PE8
              Must_Warn_Others Level 1

              Thanks for the reply Hunt (aka Wine Snob) ... the multiple MPEG-2 compression observation certainly makes sense. I'm guessing this is similar to the issue of working with JPEG images in Photoshop ... you want to make sure you don't save edits as JPEG which would continually degrade the image.

               

              I can't help it ... I watch the original (source) DVD on my TV and the video looks great. I just want to take that original DC50 DVD, add a nice menu, and burn it to a DVD I can hand out to friends. I actually want to do more than this but I'd be satisfied with accomplishing a "clean" copy for now.

               

              Paul787 mentioned the VOB files being the likely source of the degraded quality. I'd be willing to believe this since I don't have a problem with the MOV files from my Canon 5D Mark II SLR camera. I'd actually reword this to note that my specific problem is with PE and the VOB files from a Canon DC50 <whew>. Last night I worked with Nerovision and was able to create my 4GB video in just a couple of hours ... trimmed a little footage, added a nice menu ... and burned a DVD. The DVD created by Nerovision looks great ... just like the original/source DVD's from the DC50. Why is it that the goofy little nerovision works for me and the feature-rich application from a company focused on media does not? And thanks too for Paul's response.

               

              Here's a little observation I left out only because I think it complicates the discussion ... it's interesting though. The Canon DC50 is advertised as having "true widescreen HR" capabilities ... as opposed to other recorders that do some kind of mojo to produce a 16:9 video. I'm not real clear on this but I do know that when you open the VOB with Premiere Elements it treats it as a 4:3 video. The football players get taller and thinner ... and you have the black bars on the side. I have to "interpret the footage" and tell Premiere it's 16:9. Nerovision on the other hand reads in the VOB file and displays the video correctly as 16:9 footage. One would think this is where the problem is with PE8 interpreting the VOB file incorrectly but here's where something completely weird happens ... I had this brilliant thought of simply exporting the footage from Nerovision to something like an AVI file ... my hope was to use PE8 to edit and work with the AVI files. This would whack out my workflow a little bit but I'd get to spend most of my time working with the video in PE8. So I exported the video from Nerovision as an AVI file. I then went to view the AVI file with something like windows media player just to check it ... holy cow, it was in a 4:3 format. I went back to Nerovision and specifically set it to export as 16:9 ... nope, it still plays as a 4:3 ... what the hey. By this time I've been reduced to babbling in front of my computer ... fortunately my wife pulls me away and suggests a good night sleep.

               

              I really wish I could accomplish this quality with PE8 ... I like the PE8 application much better than Nerovision. If there's another camcorder that works better with PE then I'd consider purchasing a new camcorder. Sometimes the effort to "fix" a solution is more costly than "purchasing" a solution. I'll have to admit though ... I've learned a lot with things not working smoothly.

              • 4. Re: Choppy DVD playback even with PE8
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                The JPEG analogy is right spot on. JPEG re-compression will degrade the image, just as multiple MPEG compression will.

                 

                There are some editing programs, that will do "smart Rendering." What this means is that for areas of MPEG-2 footage, that is not changed, no re-Transcoding will be done. This keeps the source footage in the original MPEG-2 (the AV that is inside the VOB container), and just copies it over. Now, where there will be degradation is where the footage was changed. This could be a Title, or PiP, or other editing. There, the material will need to be re-Transcoded. In these cases, the degradation will take place, but just for a smaller segment of the AV file.

                 

                I do not have a list of NLE's that can do "smart Rendering," but if you Google for that term, you'll probably see quite a few. Some will be commercial, and some will be freeware. NeroVision might well do smart Rendering. I just do not know.

                 

                As for what is inside a VOB, this ARTICLE will give you some background.

                 

                Now, PrE (and PrPro) have a different workflow. They are designed to edit DV-AVI Type II files, HDV and AVCHD (also MPEG, but HD, so you do not see the degradation anywhere near as much). What happens with an MPEG file is that to edit at a frame level, the GOP (Group of Pictures) structure is Rendered, so that you have every Frame of the AV file. This ARTICLE will explain GOP a bit more. With an NLE that employees smart Rendering, any GOP that is not altered in any way is just retained, as is, so no re-Transcoding.

                 

                Hope that this explains things a bit more.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt