10 Replies Latest reply on Jan 4, 2010 7:09 AM by the_wine_snob

    PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software

    vidguytx Level 1

      Hi !

       

      HERE'S ONE THAT WILL DEFINITELY BE A CHALLENGE FOR SOMEONE WHO THINKS THEY KNOW WHAT'S "UNDER THE HOOD"!!!!

       

      We do video strictly for use by attorneys in legal cases.  In addition to standard editing, we need to provide them with files that literally synchronize the text from the transcript with the video (the video is first encoded to MPEG1).       There are a number of programs that do this, and the one we use is "Visionary" (Visionary Legal Technologies).

       

      As other such programs do, Visionary uses voice recognition to align the audio from the MPEG1 file with the transcript.

       

      For very basic standard editing of depositions, only because of the ease of use (as well as some of the features that are conducive), we previously used Pinnacle (Avid's basic version, such as Elements is Adobe's basic version of the Pro).  There was no problem, and everything functioned normally, other than a few minor glitches with Pinnacle (one being occasional audio/video synch issues when burning).  For that and a couple of other reasons, I felt like Elements would be a more solid foundation for editing, and would solve the synch and other issues.

       

      HOWEVER......, something occurs when installing Elements, that has to do with it modifying the standard Windows (XP) codecs.  Visionary absolutely REQUIRES ALL of the EXACT STANDARD Windows codecs  (MediaPlayer, Media Encoder, etc.).  There cannot be one single change, update, or anything whatsoever done to alter ANY of these.  Period!!

       

      Honestly, I didn't connect the dots at first, but for some reason, Visionary became inaccurate in its voice recognition.  It started out fine as usual, but as each 1 to 2 hour long MPEG1 video file progressed forward (from the beginning toward the end), the audio gradually became more and more out of synch with the text in the transcript.

       

      After a ton of time, it was determined that the installation of Elements 7 was definitely the culprit.  It did something, such as replacing some of the standard Windows codecs, that was positively, without question, the very cause of this problem!  Uninstalling Elements did not even fix this, but,  interestingly (and luckily) when rolling back the WindowsXP registry (restoring to a date prior to the Adobe install), Visionary went back to working just fine!!

       

      This may imply that the codecs or whatever other files may not have actully been completely overwritten (theoretically, a restore couldn't bring back erased files!), but alternatively, somehow did cause the entire OS to default to the files that Adobe replaced (or at least added), and in the process, rendered the original files/codecs as obsolete.

       

      So, the question becomes; how can we have both Adobe Pre-Elements and Visionary on the same computer without having even the SLIGHTEST effect on ANY of the original Windows files/codecs that MUST remain completely unchanged from their original form in order for Visionary to work? 

       

      In other words, it's fully understandable that Adobe may say that whatever they're doing to the system shouldn't affect any of this, and what they're putting in is "better" for all applications than what is furnished by Windows, but unfortunately, that is not the case!

       

      Whoever can resolve this quickly so Visionary can work as it's designed and still have Elements on the same machine without it touching anything whatsoever that Visioniary needs, I'll buy dinner!!!!

       

      THANKS BIG TIME!!!!        

       

      Les

        • 1. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
          vidguytx Level 1

          By the way, I should have mentioned in the initial post; we

          tried this on 3 different machines (all recent and with ample power all

          around!), and the identical thing happens consistently every time!

           

          Thanks again!!

          • 2. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            That's a very specific question, Les -- and one unlike anything I've seen in 6 years on this forum.

             

            Good luck with it, though I'm not sure any of our regulars will be able to help you with this one. Premiere Elements is consumer software, and you're asking for help with a piece of professional software that it's unlikely any of us has any experience with.

            • 3. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
              vidguytx Level 1

              Thanks very much Steve, and hopefully someone else out there who has experienced the same, will corroborate, leading someone to figure out how to run them both without PrE changing any system files (rather than simply "adding" Adobe files/codecs with different file names that PreE would use just for itself)!

               

              Cheers!  Anyone else ever hear of this or have any ideas on how to dis-allow PrE from modifying Windows standards?

               

              Thanks!

              • 4. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Les,

                 

                The only CODEC's that install with PrE (or PrPro, for that matter) are those purely for the program, and I believe that each one is from MainConcept. These are not overwrites of any existing CODEC, and even the naming convention is different, than all the installed CODEC's. The term "[Adobe]" is pre-pended to those, and that's why some CODEC checking software will give a false-positive of them being broken. This is done to keep other software from overwriting, or corrupting its CODEC's. Now, it can still have the priority of its CODEC's changed in the Registry. It can use most properly installed CODEC's, but is benign with what it adds - only its "stuff." The MS CODEC's do not ship, nor do they install with PrE. That is why, when some flavors of Vista were lacking some of the normal MS CODEC's, PrE could not handle that footage. One had to get the MS Vista CODEC pack to get those, that had always been included before.

                 

                Did a System Restore, to before the installation of PrE put everything back in order?

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                  vidguytx Level 1

                  Thanks Hunt!  Good explanation of the appending of the names, and I appreciate that!

                   

                  The anwer to your question is yes, after uninstalling and rolling back the registry, it did put Visionary back to working properly.  That's why this is confusing.  Maybe I'm slightly off track with the assumption of what it did, but we know for a fact that the install sure did do "something"!

                   

                  You seem to have a finger on that pulse, so, do you have any other ideas about what could have changed to cause this conflict that messes up Visionary, beside my speculation?

                   

                  I was thinking, that, if there were only some way to install PrE7 on a separate drive, without it even touching anything at all anywhere in the OS folders, that would undoubtedly reslove it, because it wouldn't exist or alter anything in the machine at all.  Obviously from the limited mid-level knowledge I possess, I've never imagined that such would be possible with any Windows based program, but in theory, something on that order would at least do the trick.  (As with most programs,I know, for various reasons, it definitely cannot be done that way for Visionary's software).

                   

                  Ridiculous as it may sound, is there any possible wayto accomplish SOMETHING in that concept range?  Of course, I appreciate your explanation, but if can lead to some sort of a work-around, that would be, by far, the best!

                   

                  Thanks again!

                  Les  

                  • 6. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Les,

                     

                    Other than my observations of the behavior of the installations of PrPro and PrE, regarding CODEC's, I am at a loss.

                     

                    I would contact Adobe Customer Support (not Technical Support, as they seem to read from a script - "uninstall/reinstall). They handled more "sales" related questions, and I would anticipate that they can get in contact with the product development team more readily.

                     

                    I've thought about this a bit, and have only ruled out some things: PrE & PrPro no longer access MS DirectShow (as of about PrPro 1.0, and ? on PrE), so that should not be an issue. There are few plug-ins that should interfere with anything MS. Obviously, after your roll-back test, something in PrE is getting in the way, and changing something. I just do not know what that might be.

                     

                    PrE 7 does not have some of the active elements, that PrE 8 does, but even those should not cause what you are observing.

                     

                    I'm unfortunately out of ideas - sorry.

                     

                    Good luck, and please let us know what C/S says, as I think I am about to learn something new.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                      vidguytx Level 1

                      Thanks Bill,

                       

                      Yep, you're certainly right about the canned scripting!  (So much so, that, it seems they should actually consider reversing the department names; "tech" support vs. customer support!)

                       

                      I've actually not done that yet, and haven't even checked as to how to differentiate between the methods of contacting each of those 2 separate departments, but will do.  (If it's not clear on the site, and if you happen to have the number to the resource you're recommending, that would be great as well!)

                       

                      Have a great (rest of the) Sunday!

                       

                      Regards,

                      Les

                           _______________________________________________

                      • 8. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Les,

                         

                        This PAGE might be of help. In the right-hand column, look down to Telephone Support, and then to the bottom of that cell/frame.

                         

                        Going back years, Adobe Customer Support (now called Customer Service, I see), used to be great. In my few experiences, I'd have ranked them near the top, just below the old WordPerfect (well before Corel, back when they were in Orem, UT. They spoiled me for all others to come.). Lately, things do not seem to be so good. I do know that several "higher-ups" in senior management have come out and openly stated that things WILL improve, and that Adobe is fully aware of the diminished level of service to their customers. I take this to mean that the outsourcing will cease, that the techs will receive training and may also be well versed in the particular program, that they are taking calls for. Apparently, the word has filtered up to the "ivory tower." What I do not know is when these changes will be coming and how far-reaching they will be.

                         

                        Good luck, and please do not forget this thread. You pose some good questions and the answers are just probably beyond the scope of knowledge of most of us - the ones who know have not weighed-in yet. Please update this, so we can know the details later on. Might help someone else in the future.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                          vidguytx Level 1

                          Well, thanks for the link, but admittedly, that should have been obvious if I had simply gone to the page before bothering you to furnish that!  I do appreciate it, and have submitted the full report as per the primary context in this string!  We'll see what happens, and if not, I'll follow-up by phone soon.

                           

                          Thanks again very much, and yes, of course, if I'm able to acquire something of substance, sure, I'll defnitely post it up here!!  Of course, not sure when/if that will be!

                           

                          Have a great week, and again, thanks for all you time, attention and help!!

                           

                          Regards,

                          Les    

                               _______________________ 

                          • 10. Re: PrE 7 Installation Corrupts Accuracy of Synching when Using Visionary Software
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

                             

                            Hunt