12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 3, 2010 7:53 PM by Peter Studt

    Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?

    Peter Studt Level 1

      I'm using Premiere Pro CS4 4.2.1, on an i7 based PC running in Vista 64 bit.

       

      I am trying to use video that is smaller than the full viewing area, to do this I am using the Crop Effect. This work nicely until I want to change the scaling of the clip, whereupon the size of the clip changes in the viewing area. Even when I try to Keyframe both the scale, and the Crop so that they begin and end being the correct size, the only time that the clip ends up being the right size is at the beginning and the end can someone tell me a way to achieve this accurately so that as the scale increases, the crop also increases such that the clip remains exactly the same size through the entire transition?

       

      Hopefully

      Peter Studt.

       

      http://www.youtube.com/user/Seeringipity

      http://www.pictures-of-paradise.com

        • 1. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Why use crop? Use a matte on a higher track.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
            Peter Studt Level 1

            Hi Harm, thanks for reading.

            I thought of using a matte, though I have not used Mattes before in PP, but it is complex since I have three clips with just a thin border between them.

            Can you direct me to some articles/videos on the Internet that could help me get up to speed with using Mattes?

             

            Thanks in advance, your patience is legendary!

            Peter

            • 3. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Though for other Effects (Gaussian Blur in this case), I find Curt Wrigley's Track Matte Keying TUTORIAL on "Softening Skin Tones," to cover the bases well. You have to interpolate a bit, but the concept is good and clean.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                Level 4

                Hi,

                 

                I am new at this, so I would definitely listen to Harm and Hunt on this first and foremost.

                 

                However, I have been scaling and changing opacity (and positions) of several video clips on different layers and came up with this hair brained way of doing it.

                 

                Lets say I want to go from 100 % scale to 20 % scale in a portion of the clip.

                 

                Basically I knew that I could mark a position of a clip (for scaling, opacity, etc) and move my CTI to the position where I wanted to end up, and change the scale to 20 %.

                 

                The program would make a transition that gradually went down to 20 % so that by the time the CTI was at my second position it would be 20%.

                 

                But I wanted the 20% to happen immediately , from when I marked the first position.  Instead of having a diagonal line going from position 1 to position 2 I wanted a sudden drop ( vertical line ).

                 

                So I went back to the frame right after I marked my first position and changed the scale from what the program made it for the gradual transition (something like 98.8 % or whatever)...changed it to 20%.  That made the drop from 100 % to 20 % immediate and flat across the whole transition.

                 

                Here is a screen shot of what it looks like, and a couple psd drawings to illustrate this crazy method.

                 

                premiere screenshot.png

                 

                Note the "square wave" sort of pattern instead of a diagnal 'gradual' transition

                 

                Below is diagram of what program does for the gradual transition by default.

                 

                 

                premiereCS3.png

                 

                By going back to frame 36 and entering 20 % on the scale, the change is immediate and vertical

                 

                position-scale2.png

                 

                So you end up with this:

                 

                position-scale3.png

                 

                I don't know if that helps as I'm new at this and may have misunderstood your intentions.  Also I am sure there is a better way to do this like using mattes, but this worked for me pretty nice.

                 

                Good Luck

                Rod

                • 5. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Peter,

                   

                  It may even be easier than you thought. Use your three clips on track 1, 3 and 5. Use Motion/scale/position to size them to your liking. You can even use keyframes to animate their position and scale in time individually. That will allow for borders between them. Now if you want to scale your clips, put a matte on track 2, 4 and 6 to the initial scale you selected for track 1, 3 and 5. Then scale your video on track 1, 3 and 5 to your liking. The mattes will hide the growing size of the clips. Just experiment first with one clip and one matte, then add the next two tracks and then the next ones.

                   

                  An example of using combinations of mattes, motion/scale/position and cropping is here: http://vimeo.com/1954849

                  • 6. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                    Peter Studt Level 1

                    Bill thnx for the link, as you say the principle of the method is pure but I have trouble stepping it up to 3 separate clips in the same timeframe. My interpolationary brain-cells need exercising clearly...

                     

                    But it is a useful Video, I have it saved!

                     

                    Thank you

                    Peter

                    • 7. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                      Peter Studt Level 1

                      Robodog2 (great name), I certainly appreciate and enjoy the effort and time you have taken to help me! I do really need the smooth ramp for the scaling so you see my difficulty, I think we may be at similar stages of learning, and indeed have similar teachers (Me, Myself, and Harm Millaard)(oh and all the other good folk on this forum).


                      I think you should look in the contextual menu of the keyframe markers at 'Hold', if you apply it to I think the begining of your scenario, then set the end keyframe to your desired destination value, it will achieve with one less step your result?

                       

                      All the best RoboDog2

                      Peter

                      • 8. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                        Peter Studt Level 1

                        Harm,

                         

                        I am sure you are right about the simplicity of my solution, it seems always to be the case.

                        Your video is a joy to watch, it has some classic scenes of fur and claws, and is well worth the watch.

                        The only thing it lacked was scaling within the matte, if that is what was used.

                        As you say, get the alternating tracks working for one level, then 2 and so on...

                         

                        If I still cannot get it working I will bump this topic back up but I am hopeful.

                        Thanks very much for your time and effort!

                        Peter

                        • 9. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                          Level 4

                          Hi,

                           

                          <<<<<<

                          I think you should look in the contextual menu of the keyframe markers at 'Hold', if you apply it to I think the begining of your scenario, then set the end keyframe to your desired destination value, it will achieve with one less step your result?

                          >>>>>>

                           

                          Huh?  I can do this without going back to the beginning transition frame and moving forward one frame and all that stuff ???

                           

                          What does it mean to "hold " the keyframe marker ? Any way to make the process less arduous I am all for it !

                           

                          Rod

                          • 10. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                            Peter Studt Level 1

                            Rod,

                             

                            You should play round with it and see how it works, but yes I believe it will do just that

                             

                            Good Luck, or perhaps more importantly,

                            Have Fun

                            Peter

                            • 11. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Rod,

                               

                              Have a look at the Help file (F1) and in Keyframes, see "Hold." It will give you some tips on its use.

                               

                              Also, while you're working with Keyframes, explore the various Velocity attributes/settings, like Bezier. Magnify your Effects Control Panel's "mini-Timeline," and study the Keyframes in the Velocity Graph. You'll see little "Handles" there, that will allow you to explore the wonderful world of Bezier Curves and their controls. Note: Ease-Out and Ease-In are simple Preset versions of these. The world awaits!

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                               

                              PS - now, I probably do Keyframes similar to the way you are (with the addition of some form of Bezier Velocity control), as I find it easy to just click all my Keyframes in a Clip, and then adjust them, as needed. Still Hold is a very useful and expedient tool.

                              • 12. Re: Getting Scale and Crop to work together in a linear fashion?
                                Peter Studt Level 1

                                Hi everyone,

                                 

                                Just a wee update on my mattes and scaling and so forth.

                                 

                                I could not get Trail Matte to work for me, it is much more complex when you have 3 clips, and there was some strange behaviour going on that I could not explain. So wanting to continue on with my creativity intact, I ended up importing a plain black JPG to my project which I used four copies of to work as a matte. This only really works for one clip which I moved to the back of the pack, but so far that is all I have required, and I am moving again which is a good thing!

                                 

                                Bill, the Bezier handles, oh what fun they are, they really require a fairly long learning curve to understand their behaviour, but they are powerful little handles indeed. Coincidentally I had cause to use 'Hold' lastnight after finding that adjusting the Bezier handle on the left side of a keyframe effected the behaviour on the right side of that keyframe, and I wanted it to be totally flat so 'Hold' was just what I needed, it certainly does have worth.

                                 

                                All the best

                                Peter