7 Replies Latest reply on Jan 8, 2010 7:48 PM by Harron K. Appleman

    PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?

    bnlake

      I have a client that sends all of their files in PDF format. Throughout the document they use the All Caps option of various different text.

       

      I don't know their workflow but it appears that when working with All Caps in InDesign>exported to PDF>open in Illustrator the All Caps loses all of it's relevant information?

       

      Sound familiar to anyone? Is there a fix for this?

        • 1. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
          Harron K. Appleman Level 4
          Throughout the document they use the All Caps option of various different text.

          You'll have to enlighten us as to what you mean by "All Caps" option.

           

          ...it appears that when working with All Caps in InDesign>exported to PDF>open in Illustrator the All Caps loses all of it's relevant information?

          Again, some elucidation, please. Exactly to what relevant information are you referring?

           

          Is it possible your client used an all-caps font, like Charlemagne, or a small-caps font, like Mercury Small-Caps? If so, and if you do not have those fonts on your system, Illustrator will make substitutions.* The "fix" in that case is to purchase the needed fonts and install them on your system.

           

          *The PDF file probably has embedded fonts, which will be used by Reader or Acrobat when displaying the text. Illustrator will ignore embedded fonts, assumes you will be editing the file, and require that you have the fonts installed.

          • 2. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
            bnlake Level 1

            I've attached the PDF (I'll probably get in trouble for this haha)

             

            They claim to have sent us the font they are using so I never get a font error when opening. But even with the font substitution, Illustrator still won't retain the All Caps that the PDF is showing in Acrobat.

            • 3. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
              Harron K. Appleman Level 4

              Wow. That is weird.

               

              Here is the PDF file as opened in Reader, showing the only embedded font to be Elderkin Bold. Note that this is clearly not an all caps or small caps font. ("Limited Time Only" and the mouse type below it are in the same font.)

               

              FSnack_Reader.gif

               

               

              Here is the warning Illustrator gives you when you attempt to open the PDF file. I wouldn't have gotten this message if I had Elderkin Bold installed on my system.

               

              FSnack_Ai_msg.gif

               

               

              Here is what the file looks like in my Illustrator (v12) setup with font substitution. It's a mish-mosh of upper and lower case type.

               

              FSnack_AI_open.gif

               

               

              You can get the file to open in Illustrator with the correct appearance by using the place trick. (Open a new blank document, then place the PDF file. Link, don't embed. Then, flatten transparency.) Unfortunately, all your type will be outlined, making text editing pretty much impossible. This is what it will look like:

               

              FSnack_AI_placed.gif

               

              I checked around for Elderkin Bold, and it seems to be an old, discontinued font. If you can't get hold of the font somehow, your options are somewhat limited. If you do indeed have the font (and it would seem you do because you don't get the substitution message), then you have some type surgery to do. I am at a loss to explain this odd behavior.

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              • 4. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
                Harron K. Appleman Level 4

                Try this for laughs: redistill the PDF. Just open it in Acrobat and print to PDF. Then, try opening the new PDF in Illustrator.

                 

                When I do it, I get outlined type (but the appearance is OK) presumably because I don't have the font installed. If you have the actual font, it might work for you.

                • 5. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
                  bnlake Level 1

                  My Distiller says it won't process PDF files? Either way I can live with outlined fonts! I'd never heard of the flatten transparency trick so this may solve a lot of my issues with PDF files.

                   

                  Thank you for the quick responses and especially the work around!

                  • 6. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
                    tromboniator Level 4

                    Harron,

                     

                    I see the same results that you show when opening in Illustrator. I notice that the upper- and lower-case letters are in separate text boxes, almost certainly not their original state. Is that possibly of (known) significance, or just part of the general weirdness?

                     

                    Thanks,
                    Peter

                    • 7. Re: PDF won't remember All Caps Settings?
                      Harron K. Appleman Level 4

                      I notice that the upper- and lower-case letters are in separate text boxes, almost certainly not their original state.

                      If you turn off bounding boxes, you'll see that they are, in fact, point (rather than area) type objects. This can happen when text that is foreign to the Illustrator type engine is brought into an AI document. (You see it happen with legacy AI documents created with the pre-CS text engine and AI-created PDFs that are saved without Illustrator editing capability.) So that in itself really doesn't tell me much.

                       

                      Note how the smaller upper/lower case text -- the "Limited Time Only" and the small type at the bottom -- are fine. No case issues, and they are unbroken point type objects. This leads me to think there is no problem with the font itself, but who knows? I sure don't. Because the original was created in InDesign 6 (CS4), it might be an issue with that program. The person who set the type might also have done something strange with the all-caps text.

                       

                      We can hope someone with deeper knowledge of these things will step in to solve the mystery.